motherto2
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Post by motherto2 on Mar 2, 2014 11:00:32 GMT -5
You guys are great with ways to work a situation. My mother's younger sister is one of the biggest mooches in the world. Seriously, you wouldn't want to sit next to her on a plane, because before you land, she will have your name and phone number, and will be calling you at some point to come and stay with you. I've seen her do it on more than one occasion. And then you will see her every couple of years. When my grandmother was in critical shape and close to dying, she got mad at her husband for not forcing himself on their friends to come to dinner while she was out of state. They are huge wine people, so when they come to visit my folks, they don't have a bit of a problem letting my folks pick up every tab, to include the couple of very expensive bottles of wine they order during meals. Well, I could go on and on, but you get the idea. So, she called my mom a week or so ago to let her know that she and her husband were flying to DC to meet up with one of his kids and her family to do some sightseeing. Then they were going to jump on the train to stay with my folks for a few days. My mom kept trying to tell her that they couldn't commit to anything, because my grandmother is in such poor shape they are frequently up and down the road and to the hospital that is almost two hours away with her. My aunt kept interrupting her telling her when they would be there, etc. This happened several times, and then finally my aunt got pissed and said she was going to call me and get me to talk my mom into changing her mind. Which she emailed me instead of calling. I tried very gently to let her know about grandma and that they weren't making long range plans, and couldn't commit to pretty much anything these days. She wasn't real happy to hear that, but she emailed me back, and still said they were going to allow a few days in their plans in case they could still come to stay with them. If not they would putz around DC for a few days. This translates into she still thinks she's going to get her way. My mom is furious, and I think this time she's going to let family and politeness go out the window and tell her how she really feels about her. Of course, this will be the end of any type of relationship they have. It wouldn't be so bad, and it maybe sounds like my mom is being heartless, but this aunt has taken advantage of folks (especially other family members) her entire life. No one has ever stood up to her. They have a brother, and he and his wife seem to be out of town every time she plans to come to their town. They are sick of it also.
Looking for ideas that might leave their somewhat relationship intact. My mom says they will just make sure they are out of town, but after telling her sister that they couldn't commit because of my grandmother, I think that might be the wrong answer. But I'm willing to pass on anything you guys come up with. I have a feeling before it's all over, they won't be speaking any more, and then I feel like I'll be stuck in the middle. Which I'm not worried about, but I'm hoping they can get over this.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 2, 2014 11:11:15 GMT -5
Stick to email or voicemail. If mom wants to keep a relationship intact, don't bring up any of the history just repeat that hosting is out of the question at this time.
Sorry you got put in the middle. Family drama sucks.
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grits
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Post by grits on Mar 2, 2014 11:19:17 GMT -5
My question is this, "Why would you want to continue a relationship with this person?". Be honest. you are under too much stress right now with grandma to even think about having quests. It is not convenient at this time, and you will not be accepting anybody who drops by announced or unannounced. They will have to make other arrangements, and you are not up to dinner out with anyone. If they get really pushy, tell them that you are tired of her pushy mooching ways.
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moneymaven
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Post by moneymaven on Mar 2, 2014 11:23:49 GMT -5
Is Grandma not related to this aunt? Why is she being so heartless towards grandma?
Why would you want them to salvage a fake, one way relationship?
People like that are toxic and painful to deal with.
I'm sorry you're being pulled into this and that your grandmother is not well.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Mar 2, 2014 11:25:31 GMT -5
It is past time to draw some boundaries. Your Mom sounds like a really nice, caring person who doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, even someone so patently selfish and inconsiderate as her sister seems to be. This just makes her an easy mark for her sister. Sometimes you just have to push back hard to save yourself because anything gentle or polite will be seen as a sign of weakness. The pushy person has no compunction about bulldozing his/her way to whatever he/she wants regardless of the effect on the target. You cannot get through to such a person by being nice or worrying about sparing feelings.
Your Mom should feel no guilt about saying no, firmly and often, and making it stick. Making excuses or offering reasons will not help. Grossly self-involved people just see reasons as opportunities for rebuttal. Do not give her an opening to argue. No means no, period. Your Mom needs to say that she cannot have her sister visit at this time and then stop talking. If the sister shows up anyway, she should not let her in or even answer the door. The sister sounds like a real pill, but I hope she gets the message and leaves your Mom in peace.
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grits
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Post by grits on Mar 2, 2014 11:35:57 GMT -5
Tell her that you are sorry but you are out of Preparation H, and cannot take her for 5 minutes without it. How about this one, "The last time you came for a visit, 4 of us wound up with sores on our butts. The only common factor was you. Since we like being butt sore free, you are not welcome to stay.".
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motherto2
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Post by motherto2 on Mar 2, 2014 11:48:53 GMT -5
good thoughts and comments. First, grandmother is my stepdad's mother, so no they are not related. We have almost no family, my mother still has her sister and brother, and that's basically it. They have kids, but since we've never lived anywhere near them, they are pretty much nonexistent. Aunt lives on one side of the country, and we live on the other, so the really long distance has been working for my mom, where they only have phone conversations a couple of times a year. My mom is having enough medical issues of her own, so she's not dealing well with grandmother (her MIL) being sick and them having to go and do so much with her. My mom has bad nerves, so this driving up and down the road (and in heavy DC traffic, even though she's not driving) doesn't sit well with her.
I don't think aunt will just show up, because they would expect to be picked up at the train station, and then taken care of for the few days they will be here. In fact, I think she told mom during their call not to worry about them, they will just take care of themselves if the folks had to go with grandmother. This means they want a vehicle to allow them to go and do, which they don't want to give them. They only have a truck and car, which means they'd have to let them drive the truck. Of course would expect my folks to put gas in it for them. This is the same aunt (different husband - this is no. 4, I think it was no. 3) that went through a bunch of their personal papers, etc. while my folks were at work one day. When their mother passed a few years ago, my folks and I stayed at grandma's apartment. We came back one day to her, her husband and her daughter tearing through my grandmother's things, and they were actually going through my stepdad's case when they walked in the door. He told her that it was his case, and she just kept going through it. Her daughter stole stepdad's expensive gloves that day. That was the last time we saw them. I think the problem is that the three of us are people pleasers, and it's tough to finally stand up to her. It will most likely end up ugly.
Danny, you hit the nail right on the head. She just kept going on and on like my mom hadn't said one word to her. I think I'm having problems because she's the only person on my mom's side of the family I've ever had any sort of contact with. Mom's brother never wanted to hear what me and my brother were doing, so I've actually never had contact with him or his family outside of when I would visit. It's several states away, so as an adult I wasn't there often, but there were even times where he and his wife wouldn't even take an hour out of their day to visit when I was there. There are a couple of people on my stepdad's side I am in contact with from time to time (they have their own family drama). I have absolutely no contact with my father's family since he's gone now. So, I think this is why I'm having such a problem with it on my own.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 2, 2014 11:54:06 GMT -5
I'm not seeing why you want to have a relationship with this person, other than she is a blood relation. Blood relationships are overrated.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Mar 2, 2014 13:41:41 GMT -5
Perhaps Dear Ann/Abby has the advice you need. I know your problem comes up often on that column (the relative who wants to visit/stay but is unwelcome.)
If I remember correctly (you can probably google the advice it's always the same) the way to handle it (assuming you wish to remain on speaking terms) is to politely tell them you can't have them at your home and give them a list of hotels where they can stay (and maybe a list of restaurants they might enjoy) and then to set up times when you will see them (either at your house for a visit or someplace else).
The trick then is to keep saying the same thing to them over an over.
I know you said your mom can't really plan because of your Grandma... but maybe you can tweak the Ann/Abby advice to fit your needs.
I don't think your mom needs to break off the relationship with her sister, your mom just needs to get a little manipulative (yeah, there's nicer euphemisms I could use but I'm not feeling very creative right now) and maneuver her sister into doing what your mom wants done. We all do this stuff on a daily basis with our own families, friends, coworkers... you mom just needs a 'mind shift' so she can do it to her 'bossy' sister.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Mar 2, 2014 13:50:41 GMT -5
I was also going to suggest sending a list of local hotels with a note saying "With all the unknowns, we can't have guests, but if you insist on coming to town, here are places to stay. We may be able meet up once if we are available." And, make sure they lock the door if they do leave the house.
Oh, and if they do meet up for lunch/dinner, I would tell the waiter first thing that you (she) will need separate checks. Then be sure to be the first to bow out and leave.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Mar 2, 2014 13:53:53 GMT -5
I love Tiny Speck's idea, & I do recall seeing it in an advice column. Just send Auntie a list of hotels & car rentals places, along with the telephone numbers, in the area they're hoping to stay in.
It sounds like no one ever said "NO!" to Auntie, & made it stick. I'd say it's overdue, don't you? And, frankly, I agree with Swamp that blood relations are overrated.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 2, 2014 13:54:04 GMT -5
Don't say you'll be out of town because then that leaves your place open for a visit since you aren't using it.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Mar 2, 2014 13:56:53 GMT -5
Maybe MotherTo2's mom wants to maintain atleast a polite relationship with her sister in order to not have to deal with the seemingly eternal Bad Feelings of cutting her out of her life.
I totally agree that truly toxic people should be avoided or 'shut out' - but this sister doesn't sound 'Toxic' - just rude.
The people I know who have stopped speaking to a relative (because of some grudge or slight or general bad feelings - not a 'toxic' person) don't seem very happy about it. Even when it's been 20 or 30 years. It's like an open wound they can't forget and they aren't a better person or having a better life because of the cut.
The people I know who have cut out a Toxic person (usually someone abusive) do seem to feel bad that they don't have a happy relationship BUT they know they are a better person/have a better life for having made the cut.
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grits
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Post by grits on Mar 2, 2014 13:57:44 GMT -5
I'm not seeing why you want to have a relationship with this person, other than she is a blood relation. Blood relationships are overrated. I don't even refer to many of my parents siblings as aunt or uncle. I say my mother's/father's sister/brother. It takes a lot to get me to detest someone. When I reach that point, I just don't care about them at all. I still say avoid people who can give you stomach upsets, sores on your rear, hives, and headaches.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Mar 2, 2014 15:39:47 GMT -5
Your Mom should feel no guilt about saying no, firmly and often, and making it stick.
I like the idea of sending a list of hotels and restaurants, and museums and such for their entertainment. Make an appointment for a short visit SOMEWHERE OTHER than your home. If it's for a meal, separate checks arranged beforehand ........ and leave first.
Just give regrets and say goodnight. The ball is in the other park now.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Mar 2, 2014 16:57:55 GMT -5
That's a whole lotta chutzpah in one paragraph.
People pleasing should have stopped when the theft was discovered in the act. Seriously? Of course these leeches plan to return - if you let it get that far, they know they can get away with anything!
I'll join the chorus: send hotel and car rental info, tell them they are on their own, and I would no longer even mention grandma. It sounds like she matters very little to them anyway, so why bother?
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grits
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Post by grits on Mar 2, 2014 17:04:20 GMT -5
There is a time and place to be polite. This is no longer the time or place. Tell them the truth. If you are not quick witted, sit down, and write out the specific true incidences. You can always combat them with the truth.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Mar 2, 2014 17:24:22 GMT -5
We have very good friends who had a somewhat similar problem, but it was not with relatives. They moved to half way to Florida. Shortly there after, they received phone calls from "friends" who were driving to Fla. and "your house in on our way". After a few of these so called friends doing this, our Mr. Good friend started replying " Hey great, give us a call after you get checked in to your hotel and we can meet you for dinner".
That solved that problem.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Mar 2, 2014 21:02:16 GMT -5
milee gave some really good advice on another thread, but I'm on my phone and can't link it. Basically, you tell the person with all the warmness and kindness you can muster, that you prefer not doing something. And you have I say that you prefer not to. Becuase if you give a reason why you can't do something, they will try to solve the problem for you so that you accept their request. This I imagine requires for the requester to shut up for a minutes, which may be or not be possible. I think the thing to do is to say no with kindness and put yourself on repeat, like a broken record. This is how I deal with my father. I put myself in a safe place mentally, and I keep saying hmmm, yes, I hear that, like a broken record, and I try not to let him bait me. Acting dumb, absentminded, obtuse, all in a kind way, whenever they mention coming to visit works too. Good luck!
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Mar 2, 2014 21:29:55 GMT -5
I can't let a thief or a nasty person stay at my house. I don't want anyone like that to even cross our dorrstep. The aunt is both a thief and a nasty person. Your mother should wash her hands of her. Aunty sounds like she's the biggest bitch on the easern seaboard. She evidently enjoys running over other people's needs. Your whole family should just drop her and her fine, mooching husband as well.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Mar 3, 2014 1:08:36 GMT -5
We have very good friends who had a somewhat similar problem, but it was not with relatives. They moved to half way to Florida. Shortly there after, they received phone calls from "friends" who were driving to Fla. and "your house in on our way". After a few of these so called friends doing this, our Mr. Good friend started replying " Hey great, give us a call after you get checked in to your hotel and we can meet you for dinner".
That solved that problem. I faced a similar problem in the mid-80s. After a few assignments abroad we spend 3 years in our home country, followed by our next assignment in a highly desirable location. In the 3 years we lived at home only 3 out of 8 siblings could be bothered to make the max. 1 hour drive to come visit. Those three came regularly. When H announced our next assignment at his parents home all 8 were all of a sudden making plans for extended family visits. Afterwards I told H in no uncertain way that only the 3 that could be bothered to visit while close, would be welcome in my home since I was not running a hotel. Those three did visit and the other five were p*ssed at me for long time. Since H and I have been divorced for quite a while now, I don't know whether they are using him now for free accommodation but that's no longer my problem.
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hsclassic
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Post by hsclassic on Mar 3, 2014 9:42:33 GMT -5
OP, we have a toxic relationship with my mom's sister. I cannot give you any other good advice except for the great advice that has been given. Share the list of hotels, car rentals, and restaurants with "auntie" when she pushes the issue again.
For me, I've eliminated the toxic relationship with my mom's sister. While I do miss the relationships I had with my 3 cousins (her kids), at least 1 of them is turning out just like my aunt, so really, nothing much has been lost. My first priority is my happiness and well-being, and I'd recommend the same to you and your mom.
Best wishes and lost of hugs to you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 10:09:39 GMT -5
Just because you happen to be related to this person doesn't mean you have to keep her in your life.
Use the same criteria you use on non-relatives: people who affect you life in a positive way deserve your time and energy. Those who affect you negatively don't. Don't waste either on someone who doesn't deserve them.
She's going to be more upset that she didn't get her way, not that the relationship is deteriorating. And, to me, that not something worth fighting for to keep in my life.
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motherto2
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Post by motherto2 on Mar 3, 2014 11:21:24 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the words and ideas. I think the best thing for my mom to keep doing is to keep maintaining they aren't available. Luckily we are on opposite coasts from her so it's not a recurring thing. It used to be when her husband's one daughter lived in the nearest town to us. They would come to visit the daughter and her family and stay with my folks. I think that's when a whole lot of things went sour for my mom, because it was at least once or twice a year. I've already told them about requesting separate checks at he beginning of the meal, but if my mom has her way, it won't happen at all. We are about an hour and a half from DC, so giving her a list of hotels, etc. wouldn't really work. I think it just needs to be a continuous no. I think I'm going to also suggest they just don't answer the phone when they are here. Since they want to take the train here, and my folks live almost an hour from there, I don't think they would risk coming all this way and not be able to get to their house, just to find out they aren't home. I'm sure I'll be the one getting the phone calls if they can't get in touch with them, so who knows how it will go.
Holy crap, I hate drama, and family drama is the worst. A lot of times I'm a little sad that I've never had real family relations, but times like this makes me realize thank goodness for living so far from all of them!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 3, 2014 11:40:51 GMT -5
If I was your mom I'd have no problems telling my sister to F off. Just because we're related doesn't mean I have to put up with your crap.
And after the stealing incident I'd make it known someone will be there to greet her on the porch with a shotgun so get any idea of snooping around my house (or grandma's too) while I'm gone out of her head now.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Mar 3, 2014 12:11:29 GMT -5
Time to tell your aunt to pound sand. Your aunt is not going to change and very clearly only cares about herself. People like that aren't worth your time or effort whether they're family, friends or acquaintances.
As far as not having real family relations if it makes you feel any better you're not alone. My family is quite small and it's pretty sad that we've never been real close but it is what it is. When we do get together I'm over it pretty quickly as one part of my family spends the entire get together tooting their own horn.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 12:18:32 GMT -5
It's your life (and your Mom's). You are allowed to choose who gets to be a part of it whether you share a blood line or not.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Mar 3, 2014 13:20:46 GMT -5
Motherof2, I'm wondering if we might be related. Your description of your Aunt fits one of my Cousins just a little too closely.... Of course, it takes all kinds to make a world.
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steff
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Post by steff on Mar 3, 2014 15:20:44 GMT -5
I have an aunt that is the same way. Her last visit, she was supposed to be here to "help" my mom take care of gramma because mom had mouth surgery. My aunt expected to be treated as a guest and was incredibly rude to my mom over every little thing. Everything came to a head when my aunt was going to put my gramma on an air mattress and take her bed. My mom was at her breaking point by then & I stepped in to try & help. I got gramma to not give up her bed & then the shit royally hit the fan the next morning. Mom & aunt screaming at each other. Mom told her to go to a hotel. My aunt demanded that gramma or mom pay for the hotel & give them gas & food money. Mom informed her that if she had to be paid to visit her own mother, then this was her last visit. They left that afternoon & went to another aunt's house...shit hit the fan there & they left literally in the middle of the night. My aunt & uncle haven't been back to visit since then. She calls & talks to gramma, but when she calls my mom & starts screaming over the phone, mom just hangs up on her.
Sometimes everyone hits the breaking point & you just gotta let break. We expect the next family battle royal to be at gramma's funeral. and it WILL happen, there is no doubt about it.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 3, 2014 16:18:01 GMT -5
My experience with users like that is they're hard to get rid of, so there is no reason to walk on eggshells around them to keep the peace. They'll get over their disappointment quicker than you'd expect, and come back asking for more.
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