Ava
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Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
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Post by Ava on Feb 25, 2014 18:43:12 GMT -5
I call utter BS on saying it doesn't take longer in socialized countries. There are plenty of articles and studies on the wait times in Canada and Great Britain. About how you are assigned a specific GP in Great Britain and if you want another you can ask to see someone else, but have to go through the appropriate channels for the change and then you can still be denied. About how the private insurance and private doctors is thriving because the NIH will only approve standard care, and if for some reason you need twice as much as the standard dose you have to pay out of pocket. How in Canada the wait for non emergency MRI/CT scans can be over a year.
I'm not familiar with your country, but do they have as advanced medical coverage as we do? Can you get a non-emergency MRI scheduled in one day if you want there? Do you have to go through channels to see a specialist? Wait months to schedule a surgery?
I am not familiar with the Canadian or British system. The system in my country works wonderfully well and the time I wait there for a specialist or a primary care doctor are similar to my wait time here. We have some posters who are from Canada. Maybe they'll like to give us their point of view. Somehow, I don't see any Canadian or British person clamoring to abolish their current system and go to a for-profit model. Each and every one of the other first-world country have some form of socialized medicine. They spend way less and get better results.
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Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,256
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Post by Ava on Feb 25, 2014 18:53:33 GMT -5
Do you think the status quo is working for us? Just read the thread about how much some posters have spent in out-of-pocket health expenses and tell me charging people so much after they've paid premiums AND taxes is not criminal. If you are worried about the "freeloaders"; children, disabled, and elderly people for the most part, think about this; someone somewhere is making billions off our backs through the healthcare industry. Of course you have some real freeloaders out there; people who know how to work the system. You'll always have a percentage of the population doing that, no matter what. They are not that many, and they don't really make a difference from a financial point of view. And believe me, I live in a very economically depressed area. I am surrounded by people who get food stamps, state health insurance, section 8, etc. Trust me; you don't want to be in their place. Those that are not physically disabled have some sort of mental issue, mostly depression. The money and benefits they get are enough to survive. They barely make it to the end of the month. Yes, they have the i-phone (which I don't) and an old semi-reliable car. They have cable, the big screen TV. That's all they have. Their homes are not that nice, would never own a house, don't travel, by the end of the month they are trying to con $20 out of you because they don't have enough to eat. They don't have any sort of plan, any future, or any hope. I'm not here to survive, I am here to thrive. Grits; you are right, the feds are involved because they are paying. But the program is set-up and run by the state of VT. No, the feds aren't paying. I am! "Government" money doesn't appear by magic. It is taken from hard working taxpayers. It's way past time that large portions of the US population comes to grips with the concept that money to fund government subsidies and programs doesn't fall out of the air. It comes from their neighbors. I am paying, too. Actually, I wouldn't mind my taxes going up if we get all the other associated expenses out of the equation; co-pays, out of pockets, deductibles, etc. I think almost everybody will come ahead. Not only money-wise, but also time and effort to deal with insurance and medical providers. The main issue is to get the for-profit insurance companies and for-profit hospitals out of our healthcare. The U.S. spends more than the next 10 countries COMBINED in military and defense. Yet we cannot provide adequate healthcare to our own people. You don't see anything wrong with that picture? Again; the "freeloaders" are a drop in the bucket. Defense, healthcare and education are the big expenses. You can devise a method to get rid of all the freeloaders and nothing would change. Not from a financial point of view. I pay my taxes, too. I pay a lot, I think. But honestly, I got promoted to a 43K a year job. What I pay is maybe enough to cover my fair share of police, firemen, road maintenance, etc. Maybe not even that. I would have to make a ton of money to be paying for others. And then I'll be so happy and grateful to this country for allowing me to make it big, that I really wouldn't waste any time or effort worrying about "freeloaders". You don't exist in a vacuum; you are who you are thanks to your family and your country. Yes, you make an effort. People in Africa or Latin America can make the same effort and never get ahead. I also find it funny that nobody questions free education available for every children, but get upset when you propose socializing healthcare.
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milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
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Post by milee on Feb 25, 2014 19:47:14 GMT -5
I find it's usually a whole lot easier to be generous with other people's money. This.
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Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
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Post by Ava on Feb 25, 2014 20:09:40 GMT -5
Yes, like I said; I'm sure I'm just covering my own share of expenses, if at all. Anyway, I would love to make more money, even if it meant more taxes I also think that if we go to a universal healthcare model my taxes will go up, too. I don't mind. I rather pay more taxes and get socialized healthcare. But that's just my personal view. It would be very boring if everybody had the same ideas. Personally, I hope we go with socialized healthcare, and I will vote accordingly. Others are free to disagree, and also to vote accordingly. After all, it's a free country. By "free" education I didn't really mean free. I know we are paying for it. I pay property taxes, and I know they go to cover education in my town. The school system also needs improvement, without a doubt, but we as a society know we need to educate our children. Why can't we provide healthcare for all the citizens and legal residents? To me, that's a right similar to having access to education.
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Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Sept 9, 2011 17:28:42 GMT -5
Posts: 4,096
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Post by Spellbound454 on Feb 26, 2014 6:19:02 GMT -5
I'm in the uk and no we don't want a for-profit model. We see it as the job of government to provide adequate health care for its citizens. Currently slipped to 18th in the WHO rankings but are looking at ways to make the service more efficient.
France is ranked 1st and the US is ranked 37th...(that's despite spending twice as much per capita).
At least the debate is open...there are lots of different systems that are working better than both our Countries.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 26, 2014 13:13:35 GMT -5
The system in my country works wonderfully well and the time I wait there for a specialist or a primary care doctor are similar to my wait time here.
My experience is with the Canadian system, as I have family and friends over the border.
If you need emergent care, things are good. However, my friend needed to wait over 8 months for a hip replacement and over 6 months for a knee replacement in the last couple of years. During both of these times, she was essentially wheelchair bound. When you are in pain, believe me a joint replacement really isn't elective surgery even though this is the moniker used for it.
My experience is that I waited as little as 3 weeks for one hip replacement. My longest wait was 6 weeks BUT I chose to go into a very good surgical practice as a new patient and I lucked into a cancellation. Otherwise the wait could have been as long as 3 months with that surgeon. Had I gone with another surgeon, the wait would have been much less.
When my b/f needed an MRI, he was scheduled within the week in the US (for a non-emergent but critical MRI). His mom (who is Canadian) was astounded that he got in that fast. I do know that the medical imaging facilities in one place in upstate NY are almost wholly subsidized by Canadian residents who need imaging done and cannot get into one in their province in a reasonable period of time, so choose to go on their own dime.
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