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Post by marjar on Feb 23, 2011 10:19:51 GMT -5
Orlando, Florida (CNN) -- If an elementary school teacher graded you on your involvement in your child's education, what kind of a grade would you get? Should your kid's first-grade teacher be grading you in the first place? If Florida state Rep. Kelli Stargel's bill becomes law, public school teachers will be required to grade the parents of students in kindergarten through the third grade. The parents' grades of "satisfactory," "unsatisfactory" or "needs improvement" would be added to their children's report card. Stargel, a Republican who sits on several education legislative committees, says that parental involvement is key to educating children for years to come. As the mother of five, Stargel says, she understands the importance of her role in educating her children. www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/26/florida.grading.parents/index.html
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 23, 2011 10:24:20 GMT -5
A very large factor in the success of education is parental involvement.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 23, 2011 10:28:25 GMT -5
A very large factor in the success of education is parental involvement. And sometimes a very large factor in the failure of education as well. I had to deal with a parent who was very involved with almost weekly visits to school to find out why we were picking on her "precious" little girl.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 23, 2011 10:29:46 GMT -5
weekly visits to school to find out why we were picking on her "precious" little girl.
Helicoptor mother I presume?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 23, 2011 10:30:15 GMT -5
Many parents would like to be more actively involved in their children's education, but Democrats and the Teacher's Unions are standing in the way. Parents often give up when they realize how little say they have in their kid's government run school system. It's parental CHOICE that will foster parental involvement.
I also think more than merely attaching tax dollars to the customer rather than the service provider, more should be required of the customer in terms of payment.
In other words, you want quality education and involved parents-- give them rights AND give them responsibilities. Parents with some skin in the game will care more.
For poorer kids-- subsidize it, but keep the choice. For the "rich"-- make them pay. People shouldn't expect school to be "free". We need to return to the idea that you get what you pay for-- and if you pay for nothing, you get nothing.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 23, 2011 10:31:12 GMT -5
Guess this law maker would have to start with an "A+++" for home schooled kids, huh?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 23, 2011 10:33:31 GMT -5
weekly visits to school to find out why we were picking on her "precious" little girl.Helicoptor mother I presume? Nah!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 23, 2011 10:37:49 GMT -5
Many parents would like to be more actively involved in their children's education, but Democrats and the Teacher's Unions are standing in the way. Parents often give up when they realize how little say they have in their kid's government run school system. It's parental CHOICE that will foster parental involvement. I also think more than merely attaching tax dollars to the customer rather than the service provider, more should be required of the customer in terms of payment. In other words, you want quality education and involved parents-- give them rights AND give them responsibilities. Parents with some skin in the game will care more. For poorer kids-- subsidize it, but keep the choice. For the "rich"-- make them pay. People shouldn't expect school to be "free". We need to return to the idea that you get what you pay for-- and if you pay for nothing, you get nothing. As long as you require parents to pay for their kid's education instead of me, give them all the choice in the world. I pay for the education of my fellow youthful citizens and I want a say in exchange for that.
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zipity
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Post by zipity on Feb 23, 2011 10:43:30 GMT -5
Too bad the same law doesn't allow parents to grade the teacher.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 23, 2011 10:51:32 GMT -5
I stand with you Zip. From my experience the education system could be better improved by allowing the parents to grade the teacher in specific categories. They are the ones paying for them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 11:03:04 GMT -5
Stargel, a Republican who sits on several education legislative committees, says that parental involvement is key to educating children for years to come.
Yes that is a more true statement than it has ever been. The reason is that schools aren't doing their jobs. On the other hand many parents aren't doing their jobs either. The first step is that the schools need to get back on track. I say that because there should be some accountability & standards that can be enforced in schools. As for parents, that's a whole lot harder to enforce. No matter how bad your parents are, you should still be able to read after spending 12 years in school.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 23, 2011 11:05:17 GMT -5
I stand with you Zip. From my experience the education system could be better improved by allowing the parents to grade the teacher in specific categories. They are the ones paying for them.Absolutely wrong. Your school taxes do not start nor go up when you have a child enrolled in school. You do not pay more if you have multiple children enrolled in school. Your school taxes do not end nor go down when you have a child leave school. We pay school taxes to educate our fellow citizens.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 23, 2011 11:09:24 GMT -5
In any other case, we'd be outraged. We wouldn't let servers grade diners, or grocers grade grocery shoppers. For some reason when it comes to government far too many people agree with the premise that the customer is always wrong.
Why is that? Why is it when it comes to government, the customer has no say at all? You pay whether you want to use a government run school, or even if you need a school at all; if you choose another school, you still have to pay for the school you DO NOT want and then ALSO PAY for the school you do.
Sorry-- no rights, no responsibilities. The customer is always right. We consumers need to take back school choice. We have a choice as a natural right- we do not need to be "given" choice by government. We need to find a community some place and stage a tax revolt. Stop paying, stop sending our kids to the government run school, use OUR money to send OUR kids to the school of OUR choice-- and then let 'em come after us. Refuse to leave OUR homes.
Basically what we need to do is stage a mini-community strike for school choice and refuse to take no for an answer. Maybe if we don't want to do a tax revolt, we need to do a complete school shut down. Nobody sends their kids to the government run school-- nobody. Stay out, and then at the school board meeting it'll be pretty hard for them to justify keeping it open with no students-- so we in effect force it to close.
Bottom line, we are going to have to endure a little life disruption if we're going to fight for and restore our liberties. It won't take violence, but it will take sacrifice. We'll leave the violence to the government-- and put it on full display.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 23, 2011 11:10:27 GMT -5
Stargel, a Republican who sits on several education legislative committees, says that parental involvement is key to educating children for years to come. Yes that is a more true statement than it has ever been. The reason is that schools aren't doing their jobs. On the other hand many parents aren't doing their jobs either. The first step is that the schools need to get back on track. I say that because there should be some accountability & standards that can be enforced in schools. As for parents, that's a whole lot harder to enforce. No matter how bad your parents are, you should still be able to read after spending 12 years in school. And if those standards aren't met, students should be expelled. Kicking those without ability or motivation out well before 12 years will improve schools performance greatly.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 23, 2011 11:14:00 GMT -5
In any other case, we'd be outraged. We wouldn't let servers grade diners, or grocers grade grocery shoppers. For some reason when it comes to government far too many people agree with the premise that the customer is always wrong. Why is that? Why is it when it comes to government, the customer has no say at all? You pay whether you want to use a government run school, or even if you need a school at all; if you choose another school, you still have to pay for the school you DO NOT want and then ALSO PAY for the school you do. Sorry-- no rights, no responsibilities. The customer is always right. We consumers need to take back school choice. We have a choice as a natural right- we do not need to be "given" choice by government. We need to find a community some place and stage a tax revolt. Stop paying, stop sending our kids to the government run school, use OUR money to send OUR kids to the school of OUR choice-- and then let 'em come after us. Refuse to leave OUR homes. Basically what we need to do is stage a mini-community strike for school choice and refuse to take no for an answer. Maybe if we don't want to do a tax revolt, we need to do a complete school shut down. Nobody sends their kids to the government run school-- nobody. Stay out, and then at the school board meeting it'll be pretty hard for them to justify keeping it open with no students-- so we in effect force it to close. Bottom line, we are going to have to endure a little life disruption if we're going to fight for and restore our liberties. It won't take violence, but it will take sacrifice. We'll leave the violence to the government-- and put it on full display. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE. Please allow me to stop paying a penny for schooling. Please force parents to pay the full amount for educating their children.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 23, 2011 11:14:36 GMT -5
billison, I stand corrected. The statement should state that all taxpayers pay for the education not just the parents but to my point, parents views could be a valuable tool in promoting communication and should be used to help evaluate the teachers performance and would be much more effective then having the teacher evaluate the performance of the parent that the school has no control over anyhow. The only way to mange anything is to use measurement methods and if someone is providing a service they should be required to review feedback from the customer. This is just another Republican who has lost her way.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Feb 23, 2011 11:14:46 GMT -5
I feel bad for the poor kid who excels in spite of his parents failings, applies to college and is told, sorry we can't accept you because although your grades are great your permanent record shows your parents are failures.
Who wants the deeds of your crappy parents to haunt you for the rest of your life (at least any more then is necessary)?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 23, 2011 11:15:27 GMT -5
I stand with you Zip. From my experience the education system could be better improved by allowing the parents to grade the teacher in specific categories. They are the ones paying for them.Absolutely wrong. Your school taxes do not start nor go up when you have a child enrolled in school. You do not pay more if you have multiple children enrolled in school. Your school taxes do not end nor go down when you have a child leave school. We pay school taxes to educate our fellow citizens. Wrong. We are forced at gunpoint to prop up a government education monopoly that has failed, and would fail in a competitive market environment. If you don't believe there are guns involved, just stop paying and refuse to leave your property. We pay to prop up the teachers unions. We pay to funnel campaign cash to politicians that support the teachers unions. We pay to prop up and elitist education establishment that more often than not works against our interests, and above all... We pay for the worst education of 54 other industrialized nations. SCHOOL CHOICE. RESPONSIBILITY FOLLOWS RIGHTS. No choice, no say, no responsibility. Educators, teachers, and lawmakers could have parental involvement in a heartbeat-- they'd just have to give up CONTROL.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 23, 2011 11:17:16 GMT -5
billison, I stand corrected. The statement should state that all taxpayers pay for the education not just the parents but to my point, parents views could be a valuable tool in promoting communication and should be used to help evaluate the teachers performance and would be much more effective then having the teacher evaluate the performance of the parent that the school has no control over anyhow. The only way to mange anything is to use measurement methods and if someone is providing a service they should be required to review feedback from the customer. This is just another Republican who has lost her way. Teachers get plenty of feedback from parents.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 23, 2011 11:19:47 GMT -5
Absolutely wrong. Your school taxes do not start nor go up when you have a child enrolled in school. You do not pay more if you have multiple children enrolled in school. Your school taxes do not end nor go down when you have a child leave school. We pay school taxes to educate our fellow citizens. Wrong. We are forced at gunpoint to prop up a government education monopoly that has failed, and would fail in a competitive market environment. If you don't believe there are guns involved, just stop paying and refuse to leave your property. We pay to prop up the teachers unions. We pay to funnel campaign cash to politicians that support the teachers unions. We pay to prop up and elitist education establishment that more often than not works against our interests, and above all... We pay for the worst education of 54 other industrialized nations. SCHOOL CHOICE. RESPONSIBILITY FOLLOWS RIGHTS. No choice, no say, no responsibility. Educators, teachers, and lawmakers could have parental involvement in a heartbeat-- they'd just have to give up CONTROL. Run for your local school board or work to get people elected that you desire orWhine like a victim.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 23, 2011 11:21:09 GMT -5
In any other case, we'd be outraged. We wouldn't let servers grade diners, or grocers grade grocery shoppers. For some reason when it comes to government far too many people agree with the premise that the customer is always wrong. Why is that? Why is it when it comes to government, the customer has no say at all? You pay whether you want to use a government run school, or even if you need a school at all; if you choose another school, you still have to pay for the school you DO NOT want and then ALSO PAY for the school you do. Sorry-- no rights, no responsibilities. The customer is always right. We consumers need to take back school choice. We have a choice as a natural right- we do not need to be "given" choice by government. We need to find a community some place and stage a tax revolt. Stop paying, stop sending our kids to the government run school, use OUR money to send OUR kids to the school of OUR choice-- and then let 'em come after us. Refuse to leave OUR homes. Basically what we need to do is stage a mini-community strike for school choice and refuse to take no for an answer. Maybe if we don't want to do a tax revolt, we need to do a complete school shut down. Nobody sends their kids to the government run school-- nobody. Stay out, and then at the school board meeting it'll be pretty hard for them to justify keeping it open with no students-- so we in effect force it to close. Bottom line, we are going to have to endure a little life disruption if we're going to fight for and restore our liberties. It won't take violence, but it will take sacrifice. We'll leave the violence to the government-- and put it on full display. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE. Please allow me to stop paying a penny for schooling. Please force parents to pay the full amount for educating their children. I love the assumptions you're making. Do we pay taxes for groceries? Is there a grocery board? Are lawmakers proposing that grocers get to judge our shopping choices? Do we get groceries as an entitlement, or do we pay for what we use? Do we get to choose our gorceries, or does the Federal Department of Groceries, The State Department of Groceries, and the Grocer's Union decide what we get. Get real. Grow up. And Learn life. You get what you pay for. You're responsible to the extent you have rights and a choice in life. Even if we falsely assume "we" have to "all" pay for education -- let the money follow the STUDENT, and stop trapping people in school districts, and schools that are failing. If a parent finds a better school two towns over-- let them enroll, and let the money be taken from the failing district and paid to the district that's working.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 23, 2011 11:27:03 GMT -5
... ... Do we pay taxes for groceries? ... ... No.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Feb 23, 2011 12:08:37 GMT -5
I have no problem being graded by my kids teachers if I get the same right to grade them on there teaching abilities and it gets stuck in their permanent record! Hell yeah! I won the bad teacher lottery this year and there are two I would love to tattoo their grade to their forehead. Intellectually I know that we have never had a bad teacher before. Some were not great but definitely good. Man does it suck that if you say anything to them you then have to leave your defenseless kid in a room alone with them 5 days a week. I did go to the superintendent this year. The teacher is a tenured 24 year teacher. Guess how much good that did? I guess it is different here as we expect our public schools to be good. Some are great but most are pretty good. It would suck to live in an area where the only choices are between bad and worse.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 23, 2011 12:43:52 GMT -5
do the parents get to grade the teachers?
why are teacher performance records secret?
why isn't their pay listed with the rest of municipal union employee pay?
where's the transparency?
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Feb 23, 2011 13:24:52 GMT -5
I am way past having kids in school. I was very involved as a parent. We sent DS to a private school (K-3), home schooled (3-8), and sent him to public high school as there were no other alternatives ( ). I say "YES" as long as the parents also get to rate the teachers AND I think the parents should be allowed to rate the teachers at ALL grade levels. Our personal experience was that there were waaaay too many tenured teachers who were ineffective and had no business being in the classroom. By the time kids get to high school these days, even if they are not "book smart", they are pretty "street smart". They can tell the difference between a teacher that really cares about what they are doing and one that is going through the motions to earn a paycheck - and so can any involved parent. With the exception of about a half a dozen, the teachers that my DS had in high school might have wanted to be effective and passionate about what they were doing, but they just didn't have it in them any more (if they ever did). As a high school freshman, I expected my DS to LOVE his science class and HATE his English class (based on what I saw when homeschooling him), and it was the exact opposite because his science teacher had lost "it" and his English teacher had such enthusiasm and passion for what he was teaching and a real desire that his students actually LEARN something.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 23, 2011 13:32:48 GMT -5
I am way past having kids in school. I was very involved as a parent. We sent DS to a private school (K-3), home schooled (3-8), and sent him to public high school as there were no other alternatives ().
I say "YES" as long as the parents also get to rate the teachers AND I think the parents should be allowed to rate the teachers at ALL grade levels.
Our personal experience was that there were waaaay too many tenured teachers who were ineffective and had no business being in the classroom. By the time kids get to high school these days, even if they are not "book smart", they are pretty "street smart". They can tell the difference between a teacher that really cares about what they are doing and one that is going through the motions to earn a paycheck - and so can any involved parent. With the exception of about a half a dozen, the teachers that my DS had in high school might have wanted to be effective and passionate about what they were doing, but they just didn't have it in them any more (if they ever did).
As a high school freshman, I expected my DS to LOVE his science class and HATE his English class (based on what I saw when homeschooling him), and it was the exact opposite because his science teacher had lost "it" and his English teacher had such enthusiasm and passion for what he was teaching and a real desire that his students actually LEARN something. I think the best way to grade teachers is to give parents a choice of school, and end the practice of tenure. The market is a remarkably efficient tool for grading all kinds of things.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Feb 23, 2011 15:04:49 GMT -5
HOW STUPID a teacher grading parents. First I doubt it would be legal. Second useless since many parents see the teacher maybe two or three times a year and some never. Just what an over worked teacher needs is another duty and more paper work. My wife taught in FL for 30 plus years and I can tell you it would be a useless endevor.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 23, 2011 15:23:55 GMT -5
Not to mention the stupidity of making a law that requires it. Any school district that wanted to experiment with this concept could do it without a state law requiring everyone to do it. Also measuring things will do no good unless the results are used to achieve an objective. In this case they apparently are trying to modify parent behavior??? It illustrates the back wards thinking in our elected officials. When you provide a service you usually monitor satisfaction.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Feb 24, 2011 0:06:36 GMT -5
I see a major issue in parents grading teachers also. First every parent if honest with themselves have natural prejudices toward their own child. Why that child will not follow directions, why the child will not sit in class and pay attention, why the child constantly interrupts the teacher, why they will not follow directions. You would not believe the excuses a parent makes for little Johnny or Suzie.It is always the teacher never the child's fault. For thirty plus years I have heard them. No matter that they stayed up till midnight, live on a sugar diet, left home with no breakfast, doped up on Ritalin, or is never made to mind at home. Parent if you child is not cutting it it is your fault. Be honest and admit it. Are there teachers that have just worn down by the stress of battle and should leave? Yes but the education system needs to have review systems that do the evaluating not the parents. I cite one case I know well and my wifes closest friend. She had high praise from educators and parents for years. Her last year they gave her a class of all problem children, Add HDDAD etc. She got nothing but complaints from parents little johnny could not learn under her. Little Johnny could not sit still and keep his mouth shut. That was the teachers fault. A good teacher threw in the towel. Thanks Parents. To day teachers cannot paddle or touch little Johnny. You must reason with him. Bull S. No punishment? Little Johnny knows instantly he is in control not the teacher. You want good schools back the teacher, otherwise quit complaining.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 24, 2011 0:22:00 GMT -5
I see a major issue in parents grading teachers also. First every parent if honest with themselves have natural prejudices toward their own child. Why that child will not follow directions, why the child will not sit in class and pay attention, why the child constantly interrupts the teacher, why they will not follow directions. You would not believe the excuses a parent makes for little Johnny or Suzie.It is always the teacher never the child's fault. For thirty plus years I have heard them. No matter that they stayed up till midnight, live on a sugar diet, left home with no breakfast, doped up on Ritalin, or is never made to mind at home. Parent if you child is not cutting it it is your fault. Be honest and admit it. Are there teachers that have just worn down by the stress of battle and should leave? Yes but the education system needs to have review systems that do the evaluating not the parents. I cite one case I know well and my wifes closest friend. She had high praise from educators and parents for years. Her last year they gave her a class of all problem children, Add HDDAD etc. She got nothing but complaints from parents little johnny could not learn under her. Little Johnny could not sit still and keep his mouth shut. That was the teachers fault. A good teacher threw in the towel. Thanks Parents. To day teachers cannot paddle or touch little Johnny. You must reason with him. Bull S. No punishment? Little Johnny knows instantly he is in control not the teacher. You want good schools back the teacher, otherwise quit complaining. One time, I had a parent ripping me at a meeting for not being able to get her 8th grade daughter to turn around and come back to school when she was walking away right before school started a couple of days before. I asked her why her daughter wasn't at the meeting she had been invited to attend. She said she didn't know because her daughter had not come home the night before and she had no idea where she was.
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