billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 6, 2014 16:32:44 GMT -5
... and finally, we tell them the one absolute basic rule "you cant receive, if you never ask" IM(not so)HO, a good boss observes and gives appropriate raises without forcing the person to ask.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 16:38:18 GMT -5
i agree
but what i think you deserve, and what you think you deserve, may be world's apart
and when i say your raise is 2.5%, and you say nothing, you end up with 2.5%
i am NOT their dad, or their friend
i am the boss....i pay fairly, and will never know you arent happy with your number if you never tell me
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 6, 2014 16:53:52 GMT -5
i agree but what i think you deserve, and what you think you deserve, may be world's apart and when i say your raise is 2.5%, and you say nothing, you end up with 2.5% i am NOT their dad, or their friend i am the boss....i pay fairly, and will never know you arent happy with your number if you never tell me Do you pay a fair wage or do you pay wage amounts with a goal to make employees happy? Do you say your raise is "x" and then you give more to those who question it and justify getting more? You have already pointed out that males will do that much more often than females, so over the years that will lead to you paying males more than females.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 17:06:09 GMT -5
over 25 years in management, i have lost 3 people due to money....
i have 145 employees currently, and have had somewhere between 80 and 260 for 25 + years
now either i am paying fair wages, or i am just a super guy to work for
my vote is # 1
my goal is never to pay what "make" the employee happy.....not sure where that comes from.....not in any management book i have ever read
happiness to a few of my employees would be making 80k for the 35k jobs.....not happening
and again....it isnt my place to determine if they feel they are being paid fairly, is it?
that would be on the employee to determine.....
and finally....yes.....i REQUIRE an employee to justify getting more if they are asking for more
fair or not in your opinion, it is the way i do things.....
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 6, 2014 17:17:28 GMT -5
...my goal is never to pay what "make" the employee happy.....not sure where that comes from........ ... ...i ... will never know you arent happy with your number if you never tell me It came from your comment that you wanted them to speak up if they weren't "happy".
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 6, 2014 17:23:00 GMT -5
... fair or not in your opinion, it is the way i do things..... The topic is gender differences in compensation. As you have indicated in your postings, the way you do things will lead to higher pay for males. Should women working for you earn less than males because they are not willing to speak up? Who am I to say.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 19:36:23 GMT -5
...my goal is never to pay what "make" the employee happy.....not sure where that comes from........ ... ...i ... will never know you arent happy with your number if you never tell me It came from your comment that you wanted them to speak up if they weren't "happy". And again, I have zero idea on what will make them "happy" nor do I think it makes any difference to me I only care that they produce.....what motivates them is their business And if it is money, and they feel underpaid, they need to express that to me It doesnt matter if they are male or female, young or old, black, white, or brown I can't help it if women are more meek.....I am just explaining what I have seen for 25years
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 19:48:27 GMT -5
Incidentally, am I the only one wondering why we're talking about the definition of "secular" in a thread about gender pay inequality? as soon as you put it down, i will. Two steps forward one step back.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Feb 6, 2014 19:48:40 GMT -5
Not in my experience. Perhaps you're not annoying them enough?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 19:51:21 GMT -5
Not in my experience. Perhaps you're not annoying them enough? Just tell the truth, will you?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 19:52:11 GMT -5
Kidding!
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Feb 6, 2014 19:56:54 GMT -5
Kidding is probably the very acme of my utility, nia. You're fine
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 20:00:38 GMT -5
Kidding is probably the very acme of my utility, nia. You're fine Whatever you say, Jim Morrison. Nothing wrong in one's interpretation of words.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 6, 2014 20:01:16 GMT -5
... I can't help it if women are more meek... True. As a boss, however, you can make it not create a gender difference in earnings.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 20:06:36 GMT -5
... I can't help it if women are more meek... That's sorriest words I ever heard. Sorry!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 9:13:45 GMT -5
... I can't help it if women are more meek... True. As a boss, however, you can make it not create a gender difference in earnings. no...... my job is not to be their friend or their dad or their uncle my job is to get the best work out of my employees if some of them feel underpaid, or undervalued, that is THEIR responsibility to make that known do you manage people? do they complain when things are wrong? of course they do...... so in my mind, that means i pay a fair wage already what my point was....which you so blatantly disregarded, was that i rarely have women tell me those things i do have males tell me they are worth more.....and why out of the 145 employees, i think around 55-60 are female if wage disparity was an issue here.....i am sure the rumblings would be heard
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Feb 7, 2014 9:34:51 GMT -5
You don't have to answer this if you don't want to - but is wage disparity a fact in your business? Whether or not it's an issue, is it actually the case that you are in fact paying female employees less than male employees in comparable positions, for example because they aren't bitching and moaning to you about being worth more?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 7, 2014 10:08:06 GMT -5
... what my point was....which you so blatantly disregarded, was that i rarely have women tell me those things i do have males tell me they are worth more.....and why ... Not sure how i "blatantly disregarded" what i constantly reference. Employee "A" is told they will get a 2.5% raise and they say "okay". Employee "B" is told the same and they say "Wait a minute. I deserve 4% because ..." They end up with 3.25%. If over time those who do as Employee "B" did are predominately male and those who do has Employee "A" did are predominately female, there will develop a wage disparity. The Employer could choose to say "Let's discuss what percentage raise is appropriate." This approach would be less likely to lead to wage disparity by gender. Of course, this makes no difference if the Employer feels the answer to wage disparity is that women just need to grow some balls.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 10:11:42 GMT -5
that is it
there really are very few comparable positions
an accts payable clerk doesnt make what a mechanic makes (nor should one)
other than the bdc.....which has males and females in the exact same jobs
and ALL have the exact same payplan which is based on production
so.....no i dont think wage disparity is a problem in my business, or the auto business in general
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 10:14:51 GMT -5
The Employer could choose to say "Let's discuss what percentage raise is appropriate." This approach would be less likely to lead to wage disparity by gender.
well i guess i know what you will do when and if the time comes for you
never seen it work that way in the business world......
best of luck on changing it
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Feb 7, 2014 10:19:06 GMT -5
Thanks for the response, gdgyva. I honestly thought that might be the case, but the general tenor of your comments was lending itself to a different interpretation.
I think in general anybody asking for a raise should be prepared to explain how they add the value to the company that justifies the raise; but I don't think it's terribly radical for a company to have regular performance reviews where management takes a lead in exploring this question, either.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 7, 2014 10:22:22 GMT -5
I wonder since so many women are now going into accounting, if the pay will go down?
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Feb 7, 2014 10:31:29 GMT -5
That's a very interesting question, zib.
ms-jd.org/has-women-lawyers-progress-stalled
This is an article examining how the increase in the proportion of women entering the legal profession has led to changes in the pay structure of law firms - it's argued that a twin-track system has developed to funnel high-flying female career lawyers into second-string partnership positions.
Also this:
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 7, 2014 10:42:24 GMT -5
that is it there really are very few comparable positions an accts payable clerk doesnt make what a mechanic makes (nor should one) other than the bdc.....which has males and females in the exact same jobs and ALL have the exact same payplan which is based on production so.....no i dont think wage disparity is a problem in my business, or the auto business in general What about wage disparity between male\female clerks and female\male mechanics?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 10:48:05 GMT -5
right now....no male a/p clerks only 2 positions
and we have never had a female apply for a mechanic
we do have two in school, that are also attending ase classes (sponsored by us)
they have jobs waiting for them when they graduate.....
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 7, 2014 10:48:26 GMT -5
Argh.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 7, 2014 11:32:04 GMT -5
Furthermore, what many of us are saying is the problem runs much deeper than numbers on a paycheck. Not that the studies are wrong, but simply that some things are hard to quantify, like why are women not represented more in higher paying fields, or why aren't women more aggressive in negotiating salary and bonuses.
men dont like confrontations, but they will deal with them when necessary women will go out of their way to AVOID the possibility of a confrontation negotiations, and discussions about raises are confrontational both sides argue or present a point, and a resolution happens, usually immediately for me personally, this was always a fairly easy conversation from watching my employees over the years, it is very very hard for some people....the majority of them, women how do we change this......we instill confidence in our sisters, and our daughters we make them understand their value, and how they need to express that to their managers and finally, we tell them the one absolute basic rule "you cant receive, if you never ask" I think the problem is more basic than that. Years ago at a previous job, when I complained to a boss that none of the people at our company at the associate director level or higher were women, he told me that when you go to hire or promote someone, you unconsciously tend to pick those candidates that resemble you. Therefore a white man will be more likely to select a white male candidate over non white candidates or women. We have made some advances in the last decade, but by and large, the glass ceiling for women still exists. In my current company, less than 10% of top executives are women, and none are non-white. If you look at all the high paying executive jobs that men are monoplizing, that might help explain why, on average, men alway earn more than women. Kind of a catch-22 to figure out how to change the status quo. In theory, women execs would be more likely to hire a qualified woman over a qualified man, but since there are few women execs, this can't happen...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 7, 2014 12:43:19 GMT -5
The Employer could choose to say "Let's discuss what percentage raise is appropriate." This approach would be less likely to lead to wage disparity by gender.
well i guess i know what you will do when and if the time comes for you never seen it work that way in the business world...... best of luck on changing it Yes, change is tough.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 16, 2014 17:06:27 GMT -5
This came up on the CNN website, and one of the comments made a good point. If employers really were getting away with paying women significantly less for doing exactly the same work, then why would any employer hire any men if there were women available?
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 16, 2014 17:14:45 GMT -5
I wonder since so many women are now going into accounting, if the pay will go down? Any field that sees the number of applicants per job opening is going to see pay rates go down. I imagine that if men started going into nursing in droves the pay in that well paid and overwhelmingly female occupation would go down.
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