Lunches seized from Utah schoolkids because of unpaid bills

[kent]

It's about time we started teaching kids about financial responsibility and consequences of not paying your bills......right? 

Dozens of children at a Utah school had their lunches seized and thrown away because they did not have enough money in their accounts, prompting an angry response from parents, it was reported.

"She took my lunch away and said, 'Go get a milk,’” Sophia Isom, a fifth-grader at Salt Lake City’s Uintah Elementary School, told NBC affiliate KSL.com. "I came back and asked, 'What's going on?' Then she handed me an orange. She said, 'You don't have any money in your account so you can't get lunch.’”

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/30/22504777-reports-lunches-seized-from-utah-schoolkids-because-of-unpaid-bills?lite

[Deleted]

If the lunches weren't paid for, why hand them out at all?
This could have been addressed in private before lunch started.
How humiliating for the kids.

[swamp]

My kids' lunch accounts get overdrawn on a regular basis. The school sends me a note, I send in the money.

I'm not seeing why this is an issue..........

[Sharon]

Jan 30, 2014 12:31:25 GMT -5 swamp said:

My kids' lunch accounts get overdrawn on a regular basis. The school sends me a note, I send in the money.

I'm not seeing why this is an issue..........

The parents had been contacted that they were overdrawn and still had not put more money into the account.

[Wisconsin Beth]

My daughter's school sends a note home when the account with her lunch money gets low.  I can either send a check or cash to school OR go and refill it online. 

The school also clearly states that no child will not be fed but they will get a more basic lunch (sandwich instead of hot meal)  My daughter refuses to eat school lunch so her account is milk money. 

[Deleted]

Jan 30, 2014 12:33:34 GMT -5 Sharon said:

Jan 30, 2014 12:31:25 GMT -5 swamp said:

My kids' lunch accounts get overdrawn on a regular basis. The school sends me a note, I send in the money.

I'm not seeing why this is an issue..........

The parents had been contacted that they were overdrawn and still had not put more money into the account.

I think the issue is in how the kids were humiliated, in response to what their parents didn't do. 

[Deleted]

Can we get these lunch ladies working fraud cases at the welfare office?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I remember they used to check your account before you got up to the window.  If you didn't have money they offered the choice of a cheese sandwhich or PB&J.  You still got fed you just didn't get a hot lunch.

Considering what our school system considered "food" I think the broke kids got the better deal.

[chiver78]

so if the lunch couldn't be re-served and had to be tossed, how is it cost effective to trash the hot lunch and give out additional but different foods, while embarrassing an elementary school kid about something they very likely cannot control?

not cool.

[Wisconsin Beth]

My daughter's classroom also checks lunch statuses at the begining of the day.  The kids put any notes for the teacher in 1 spot and I think lunches brought in go in a different spot and get checked to see who needs a beverage.  But this is kindergarten.  Last year about 1/2 of the kids in my daughter's room got hot lunch vs. homemade lunch (I know because I was nosy and asked one day)  But my point is that, at least in the younger kids' classrooms, there's a system designed to check on who needs what before lunchtime. 

[workpublic]

are they not allowed to brown bag it in those schools?

i am getting old. in my time you payed as you went.

[The Captain]

Every now and then we hear about one of these, and it's always the school who's made out to be the bad guy.

So tell me, the unpaid money comes out of the school operating budgets - what would you cut to pay for the lunches of kids who's parents are too lazy or don't give a damn?  Shall we cut math, spelling, or maybe keep the heat at 50 degrees?  Would that be fair in your book?

At some point you have to do something.  It's too bad the kids suffer for the choices of their parents, but that happens all the time anyways.  Making other kids suffer for the choices of the parents of some other kid is way not cool.

Life sucks sometimes, and it sucks even more when your parents can't get their act together.

ETA - Links added in to highlight scale of problem in some areas:

www.gloucestertimes.com/local/x953007742/Schools-press-parents-for-60k-owed-on-lunches

www.journalnow.com/news/local/article_5a5e1d26-bf5f-52cf-a68c-6a0dd2a26f1c.html

www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/11/school-lunch-debt-distric_n_1510072.html

"As of last February, New York City schools had absorbed some $42 million in unpaid lunch fees since 2004, according to The New York Times"

$42Million dollars lost in less than a decade. 

[chiver78]

Jan 30, 2014 13:16:41 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Every now and then we hear about one of these, and it's always the school who's made out to be the bad guy.

So tell me, the unpaid money comes out of the school operating budgets - what would you cut to pay for the lunches of kids who's parents are too lazy or don't give a damn?  Shall we cut math, spelling, or maybe keep the heat at 50 degrees?  Would that be fair in your book?

At some point you have to do something.  It's too bad the kids suffer for the choices of their parents, but that happens all the time anyways.  Making other kids suffer for the choices of the parents of some other kid is way not cool.

Life sucks sometimes, and it sucks even more when your parents can't get their act together.

I don't disagree with what you say in theory, but why can't the school leave the lunch that they can't re-serve with the kid that day, and then not give the kid another lunch until the account is due? the food's already been given out.

[chiver78]

Jan 30, 2014 13:23:15 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Jan 30, 2014 13:19:15 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I don't disagree with what you say in theory, but why can't the school leave the lunch that they can't re-serve with the kid that day, and then not give the kid another lunch until the account is due? the food's already been given out.

Isn't that how they came to be in arrears in the first place?

yep. but if the cafeteria's lax enough in their record keeping to give the kid a lunch and realize AFTER that the kid's out of money, then that's on the cafeteria. wasting more money by tossing the hot lunch and giving different additional food doesn't solve anything either. just give the kid the different lunch in the first place.

kind of like closing the barn door after the horses have fled, yanno.

[kent]

Jan 30, 2014 12:38:07 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I remember they used to check your account before you got up to the window.  If you didn't have money they offered the choice of a cheese sandwhich or PB&J. 

You can't give them PB&J because, for some, that's racist (covered in link below).

Some days I just want to stop the world and get off.  Punish and humiliate kids for what their parents fail to do and top it off by throwing away a perfectly good lunch to prove a point? 

notmsnmoney.proboards.com/thread/37422/peanut-butter-jelly-sandwiches-racist?page=1

[Deleted]

how about giving them fried chicken and watermelon?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Are cheese sandwiches racist too?

I went to school in the dark age of computers and they still managed to verified accounts before the kid got to the counter to be served.  The lunch ladies knew which kids got sandwiches and which didn't ahead of time.

I'm surprised the Utah school didn't do that.  They must have known which kids it was somehow if they knew whose lunch to confinscate.  They couldn't have addressed that before the kid got the lunch?

Not saying the parents shouldn't pay and the kid get free hot lunch but there was no reason for the school to handle it the way they did either.

[The Captain]

Jan 30, 2014 13:19:15 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jan 30, 2014 13:16:41 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Every now and then we hear about one of these, and it's always the school who's made out to be the bad guy.

So tell me, the unpaid money comes out of the school operating budgets - what would you cut to pay for the lunches of kids who's parents are too lazy or don't give a damn?  Shall we cut math, spelling, or maybe keep the heat at 50 degrees?  Would that be fair in your book?

At some point you have to do something.  It's too bad the kids suffer for the choices of their parents, but that happens all the time anyways.  Making other kids suffer for the choices of the parents of some other kid is way not cool.

Life sucks sometimes, and it sucks even more when your parents can't get their act together.

I don't disagree with what you say in theory, but why can't the school leave the lunch that they can't re-serve with the kid that day, and then not give the kid another lunch until the account is due? the food's already been given out.

I can't speak for all schools but in every cafeteria I've been in or worked in you pick up what you want then you are charged at the end of the line. Are they supposed to hire someone extra just to check balances at the beginning of the line because a few stupid adults can't get it together?  Again - the money for that salary will have to come from somehwere else.

AND - it's important to note the kids do get fed, just not the hot lunch that you are supposed to pay for.  I also know from experience (having workeded in HS and college food service) that there are numerous reminders and warnings given.  I suspect in this case it's a chronic issue and drastic steps had to be taken.

Something else a lot of folks don't know, schools are mandated by the Federal government to serve meals which meet certain nutritional standards.  Sounds good, right?  Until you realize the government subsidy for free, reduced, or full pay lunches only covers a fraction of the actual cost of preparing the meals. So a majority of the school districts have a line item in their budget to cover the cost of serving breakfast and lunch. Now some folks want them to cover lunch for those too forgetful to pay for it also?


"The district said that, according to the school, students are told when they go through the lunch line if they have a low balance and notes are sent home. Still, parents were "surprised by the news" Monday and Tuesday, the district said."

This article is a little dated, but does (I think) a good job of describing the delicate balancing act schools have to do with pricing lunches and collecting fees.

www.nytimes.com/2011/09/20/education/20lunch.html?_r=0

[Deleted]

D'oh! That reminds me that I just got the email that the kids' accounts are both under $10! 

[chiver78]

seems to me that reversing the line wouldn't be all that much work - pay first, receive a ticket for what you paid for, and pick up the food last. if you have no $ in your account, you get the ticket for the alternative lunch.

there are ways to handle this that do not involve wasting food and humiliating elementary school children.

[Artemis Windsong]

My late-DD faithfully left lunch money for me everyday. 

[The Captain]

Jan 30, 2014 14:39:28 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

seems to me that reversing the line wouldn't be all that much work - pay first, receive a ticket for what you paid for, and pick up the food last. if you have no $ in your account, you get the ticket for the alternative lunch.

there are ways to handle this that do not involve wasting food and humiliating elementary school children.

You must be a lot more mellow than I was as a kid.  No way would I pay for something before I had a chance to see it.  There was usually a choice of two hot entrees, several sides, and assorted fruit or dessert.  How do you know what you're going to get before you see it?  Have everyone go through the line twice?  That will work well for the 20 minute lunch breaks (at least that's what DD gets to eat her lunch).

Have you ever worked in any school food service?  Do you know how little time there is to serve and eat lunch?  It needs to be kept as efficient as possible.  Sorry if a few lousy parents make life tough for their kids, but maybe everyone should just brown bag it and then we won't have this problem.

And, from one of my prior posts - there appears to have been multiple warnings as well as notes given to the kids.  This is as much on them as it is their parents.  If you're worried about your kid being humiliated, then check the freaking balance every now and then or send them with a bag lunch.  Problem solved.

[chiver78]

Jan 30, 2014 14:50:30 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Jan 30, 2014 14:39:28 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

seems to me that reversing the line wouldn't be all that much work - pay first, receive a ticket for what you paid for, and pick up the food last. if you have no $ in your account, you get the ticket for the alternative lunch.

there are ways to handle this that do not involve wasting food and humiliating elementary school children.

You must be a lot more mellow than I was as a kid.  No way would I pay for something before I had a chance to see it.  There was usually a choice of two hot entrees, several sides, and assorted fruit or dessert.  How do you know what you're going to get before you see it?  Have everyone go through the line twice?  That will work well for the 20 minute lunch breaks (at least that's what DD gets to eat her lunch).

Have you ever worked in any school food service?  Do you know how little time there is to serve and eat lunch?  It needs to be kept as efficient as possible.  Sorry if a few lousy parents make life tough for their kids, but maybe everyone should just brown bag it and then we won't have this problem.

And, from one of my prior posts - there appears to have been multiple warnings as well as notes given to the kids.  This is as much on them as it is their parents.  If you're worried about your kid being humiliated, then check the freaking balance every now and then or send them with a bag lunch.  Problem solved.

must be. no, I've never worked school food service, but I bought lunch pretty much every day of my time in public school. maybe my school had a better system than most - hot entree was one price and in one line, sandwiches were all another price and in another line, and sides were all in a completely separate line. that system would have been very easy to have the kids pay first for the first two options (which included a choice of fruit, dessert, or chips)

maybe I should have been a logistics planner for school cafeterias. this really doesn't seem all that difficult to me.

ETA: wait, I should clarify - what I described here was HS. elementary and middle were all the same price if you got a full meal, whatever it was. sides/desserts were sold in a different line.

[Shooby]

Well, what should the policy be?

[Tennesseer]

Jan 30, 2014 14:50:30 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Jan 30, 2014 14:39:28 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

seems to me that reversing the line wouldn't be all that much work - pay first, receive a ticket for what you paid for, and pick up the food last. if you have no $ in your account, you get the ticket for the alternative lunch.

there are ways to handle this that do not involve wasting food and humiliating elementary school children.

You must be a lot more mellow than I was as a kid.  No way would I pay for something before I had a chance to see it.  There was usually a choice of two hot entrees, several sides, and assorted fruit or dessert.  How do you know what you're going to get before you see it?  Have everyone go through the line twice?  That will work well for the 20 minute lunch breaks (at least that's what DD gets to eat her lunch).

Have you ever worked in any school food service?  Do you know how little time there is to serve and eat lunch?  It needs to be kept as efficient as possible.  Sorry if a few lousy parents make life tough for their kids, but maybe everyone should just brown bag it and then we won't have this problem.

And, from one of my prior posts - there appears to have been multiple warnings as well as notes given to the kids.  This is as much on them as it is their parents.  If you're worried about your kid being humiliated, then check the freaking balance every now and then or send them with a bag lunch.  Problem solved.

How is it as much on a first grader as it is on their parents?  The kid cannot work for Pete's sake. 

If a kid give a note to his parent(s) money is needed, and the parent(s) say they will take care of it, what is a kid to do?

[The Captain]

Jan 30, 2014 17:07:37 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 30, 2014 14:50:30 GMT -5 The Captain said:

You must be a lot more mellow than I was as a kid.  No way would I pay for something before I had a chance to see it.  There was usually a choice of two hot entrees, several sides, and assorted fruit or dessert.  How do you know what you're going to get before you see it?  Have everyone go through the line twice?  That will work well for the 20 minute lunch breaks (at least that's what DD gets to eat her lunch).

Have you ever worked in any school food service?  Do you know how little time there is to serve and eat lunch?  It needs to be kept as efficient as possible.  Sorry if a few lousy parents make life tough for their kids, but maybe everyone should just brown bag it and then we won't have this problem.

And, from one of my prior posts - there appears to have been multiple warnings as well as notes given to the kids.  This is as much on them as it is their parents.  If you're worried about your kid being humiliated, then check the freaking balance every now and then or send them with a bag lunch.  Problem solved.

How is it as much on a first grader as it is on their parents?  The kid cannot work for Pete's sake. 

If a kid give a note to his parent(s) money is needed, and the parent(s) say they will take care of it, what is a kid to do?

Like I said before, sometimes it sucks when kids get lousy parents. What's your solution - reduce services for all the other kids? This comes direcectly out of the operating budget for the school. What would you like to eliminate first - math, remedial reading? Schools don't exactly have extra money laying around.

In addition, the only parents/kids I saw quoted were fifth graders (the age of my DD BTW).  You better believe I'd have no problem with her missing a lunch or two if she forgot to give me a note.  Since I send her to school every day with a lunch, though, that's not a problem.

AND the kids were fed, just not the same thing as everyone else.  No one went hungry or starved (which of way overused in this country) for pete's sake.  Maybe if the parents cared about their kids a bit more this wouldn't happen, but instead it's supposed to be the responsibility of everyone else. 

Sorry, I just don't get how it's the schools' responsibility, and not the parents, to make sure the kids are not "humiliated". If it's so hard to remember to add money to an account then send your kid to school with a lunch.

AND sad to say, if stuff like this didn't happen even more parents wouldn't pay becuase there would be no reprucussions.  Schools simply cannot afford in any way to allow that to happen.

[Tennesseer]

The Captain - Solution? The kid's credit goes into the red.  The kid still gets a hot meal and the parents get a one week notice that it all ends on such-and-such date.  Parents owe for the future month plus any past due meal costs. Failure to pay gets the kid no food, including oranges and drinks.  Starving kids can really whine and make parents' lives miserable.

A notice should come from the school principal (if it doesn't already).  Easy to create generic letters and send home with the kids with a return of generic letter expected with parent's signature acknowledging receipt and understanding of letter content.

And it was a waste of food for the school to throw it out.    They didn't even bother throwing the food to a homeless dog.

[Miss Tequila]

I'm as conservative as they come but I do not and will not ever agree to let a child to hungry because their parent doesn't send in lunch money. In our school, if the account is overdrawn the kids get PB&J (we are racist fuckers!). My kids have overdrawn their account because they forget to give me the note.

They went way overboard by throwing away good food as punishment. Seriously, what the fuck?

[The Captain]

Jan 30, 2014 18:08:15 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The Captain - Solution? The kid's credit goes into the red.  The kid still gets a hot meal and the parents get a one week notice that it all ends on such-and-such date.  Parents owe for the future month plus any past due meal costs. Failure to pay gets the kid no food, including oranges and drinks.  Starving kids can really whine and make parents' lives miserable.

A notice should come from the school principal (if it doesn't already).  Easy to create generic letters and send home with the kids with a return of generic letter expected with parent's signature acknowledging receipt and understanding of letter content.

And it was a waste of food for the school to throw it out.    They didn't even bother throwing the food to a homeless dog.

The credit was already in the red as I understood it and the kids were told when their account was low and notices were sent home according to more than one report I read.  

Olsen said school officials told the district that their staffers typically tell students about any balances as they go through the lunch line and send home notifications to parents each week.

www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57468293-78/lunches-olsen-lunch-district.html.csp

Yet despite this parents claim to be "surprised" by the news.  Do you really think schools should have to call parents after they tell the kids and send home notices.  Let's add yet another non value added staff position to do this valuable task because a few parents can't get it together.  AND really how hard is it to do basic math, ummm let's see - it's two dollars a lunch and I loaded 40 dollars on the account 5-6 weeks ago - think MAYBE the account is getting low?  They also could go online and check or set up autopay.

Each of these districts, including Salt Lake City, has computerized programs that enable parents to set up recurring payments and get timely notifications. Salt Lake City encourages parents to use that system, which can be accessed from its website.
Read more at www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=28541664#3BTf6lthrYkArUJi.99

But we'll blame everyone BUT the parents whose responsibility should be to make sure their kids are fed.  After all everyone else should be more responsible then the people who created the child, right?

BTW if I recall the food was cafeteria pizza - they did the homeless dog a favor by not feeding it the food.

[Tennesseer]

Kind of bizarre. From the SLC school district current web page:

Salt Lake City School District News and Events...

Souper Bowl of Caring

Help fight child hunger! Child poverty and hunger are reaching alarming levels in Utah. More than 170,000 Utah kids are eligible for free school breakfasts and lunches and another 50,000 are eligible for reduced cost meals. School breakfast and lunch programs help, but what happens on the weekends?Find out how you can help by clicking on the Souper Bowl of Caring logo...

Souper Bowl of Caring