Dog lovers' attention please- sad update post #40

[Cass]

My beautiful 6 year old Dane started losing weight early last week.  I increased his food intake and he vomited it all.  I rushed him to the vet on Tuesday thinking it was a case of bloat, but he was diagnosed instead with congestive heart failure 

He started Tuesday night on Vetmedin (heart pills, $50/week) and Furosemide (diuretic to take water away from his organs).  He is doing marginally better, I've been able to get some canned food and hamburger into him.  But he's currently skin and bones, struggling to breathe.  I'm so worried

[Deleted]

OH NO! I am so sorry to hear it. 


I haven't had to make that decision myself (yet) but from everything I read they say that it's time if he has no quality of life.

If he's having trouble breathing your last act of love towards him would be to end his suffering, since he can't do it for himself. My heart goes out to you Cass 

[Wisconsin Beth]

I'm sorry Cass.  I've done this twice with my dogs and once with my Mom for her dog.  She admits now she should have let Pepper go sooner but she wasn't ready/able. 

With mine, I just knew.  And I cried buckets.  It's been 4 years for my Pepper and 2 for my Cocoa and it's only now that I can think about getting rid of their collars and tags. 

[Deleted]

Sorry to hear this.  I put my lab down right after Christmas and it sucked, but I knew it was the right decision, she was in a considerable amount of pain and there was nothing that could be done except maybe drug the hell out of her, but life to her was running and playing outside.

[Cass]

Thanks guys

It's such a drastic change, he was a big bully puppy last week.  He's so pathetic right now 
I can't get him to the vet during the day today unless I walk him and exercise is not an option.  I'm just not sure if I should give the meds. a little more time to work...?

[Deleted]

Jan 30, 2014 11:18:49 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

Can you call the vet and ask how long it should take to work and how much improvement you can expect?

Yeah, what does the vet say?  I was going to say, "well, he's only 6", but then I saw it was a Dane.  Their life expectancies are really low. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

My cat had congestive heart failure, so I know what it looks like.  It is very painful to watch your pet struggling to breathe.  My cat was elderly and the vet told me that CHF is difficult to treat in older animals.  But your dog is not that old.

What diid your vet say about a prognosis?  Has he been able to treat it successfully and what quality of life was the animal able to maintain?

Regardless, this is not an easy decision.  The most unselfish decision is to do what is best for your dog.  He will tell you.

[grumpyhermit]

Talk to your vet - if you have a good one they should give you an honest assessment on whether or not you are just buying a little bit of time with a marginal quality of life, or if there is any potential for a real improvement.

Often times owner's are more concerned with not letting go, and vets offer them whatever time they can buy. I am always very up front with my vets. If all we are doing is extending the inevitable, marked by days or weeks of a crappy existence, I would much prefer to just let the animal go.

Sorry you are going through this.

[sesfw]

I'm so sorry. DH had to call an emergency vet when our Jessie kitty was so ill. It's heartbreaking.  Our four legged fur babies are family.

[Deleted]

Jan 30, 2014 11:22:13 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

My cat had congestive heart failure, so I know what it looks like.  It is very painful to watch your pet struggling to breathe.  My cat was elderly and the vet told me that CHF is difficult to treat in older animals.  But your dog is not that old.

What diid your vet say about a prognosis?  Has he been able to treat it successfully and what quality of life was the animal able to maintain?

Regardless, this is not an easy decision.  The most unselfish decision is to do what is best for your dog.  He will tell you.

Great Danes typically don't live beyond 7 or 8 normally.  I think they may be the shortest life expectancy breed out there.

[Cass]

I wasn't able to see my regular vet, I just wanted someone in a hurry on Tuesday.  I was very upfront with her that I knew he wouldn't live forever and didn't intend to go to extremes.

She x rayed his organs and told me she has a dog with a larger heart doing well on these meds.  She wanted to see him for a follow up on Saturday.

He is doing a little better now and breathing more shallowly.  A friend is coming over soon.  Thanks all.

[raeoflyte]

Hugs Cass.  

[Deleted]

Glad to hear he is doing a little better. 

[sarcasticgirl]

hugs Cass! my little beast turns 9 this year and just getting an email from the vet telling us "Did you know Cisco is now a senior citizen?" just about had me in tears. I dread the day I have to make a decision regarding his life. My heart goes out to you.

[Deleted]

Remember that part of the dog's reaction is because they don't understand what is going on. They don't know that medicine will make it better so they are fearful. It can make them appear worse than they are.

[mmhmm]

If the pup is doing better, and not struggling too hard to breathe, I'd give the meds a day or so more to pull the fluid off from around the lungs allowing him to breathe more easily.  Just keep him quiet, as he doesn't have the energy to expend right now.  If he really seems to be struggling to breathe and downright miserable, though, it might not be the right thing to do.  So much depends on how he's handling it all.

So sorry you're going through this, Cass.

[Gardening Grandma]

Cass
I am sorry. I have a 16 (nearly 17) year old Golden Retriever and DH and I have had these talks. Last year at the vet - he was just there for his well check - we had a talk about it. We agreed that there would be no invasive, painful tests/diagnostics and that from then on it was all about his quality of life.

I've asked myself the same question ("how will I know when it is time"). The only thing I can say is that if it is not clear to me then I will rely on my vet's judgement and advice. If he has something incurable and is suffering, I will not allow him to suffer.

Mmhmm is right - it really depends on how he is handling it.

[Spellbound454]

So sorry to hear this..
Its six months since I had my beautiful Jasmine pts.

I guess the answer to the question.... is that they will let you know when they have had enough.

In our case, it was so much pain that she couldn't stand up and had no interest in life. I did what I had to do and it broke our hearts....but we wouldn't have her back to suffer like that.

Sadly they just don't live as long as we do....and ours was simply adored every day that we had her.

So sad that you have to face this.

[midjd]

That's what happened to our Newfie this summer - stopped eating, trouble breathing, X-rays showed clear CHF.

They put her on Vetmedin, Lasix and an antibiotic and told us to observe over the weekend (she went in on Saturday am). In her case, she got progressively worse and by Sunday night would no longer take her meds or eat, and kept trying to go into the woods. We took her in first thing Monday and she passed away in the parking lot

If your dog is still taking the meds and eating a bit, I'd give them a chance to work. Our vet said dogs with that condition can turn around and live years longer, it was just in our case by the time we got her on the meds it was too late. Plus she was 14, which is old for a Newfie.

To answer the question of when you know it's time - when we couldn't get our girl to eat even hotdogs, I knew it was bad. She didn't have any of the spark she'd had even a week earlier. But I agonized over it all weekend. I think her last act of kindness was to take that choice away from me...

I hope the meds help your baby.

[Deleted]

They put her on Vetmedin, Lasix and an antibiotic and told us to observe over the weekend (she went in on Saturday am). In her case, she got progressively worse and by Sunday night would no longer take her meds or eat, and kept trying to go into the woods. We took her in first thing Monday and she passed away in the parking lot

My in-laws had a Newfie/Shepherd mix that went into the woods when it was her time. I guess it's instinctual for pack animals to go elsewhere. 

[Deleted]

Jan 30, 2014 12:39:57 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

They put her on Vetmedin, Lasix and an antibiotic and told us to observe over the weekend (she went in on Saturday am). In her case, she got progressively worse and by Sunday night would no longer take her meds or eat, and kept trying to go into the woods. We took her in first thing Monday and she passed away in the parking lot

My in-laws had a Newfie/Shepherd mix that went into the woods when it was her time. I guess it's instinctual for pack animals to go elsewhere. 

Yep.  My lab started wandering off and laying in the trees too and that really worried me when we're talking weather of 20 below zero around here.  I had a sheltie years ago that just wandered off and we never found him.    He was really old and had had a couple strokes.  The little guy was SO SLOW and barely moved, so he couldn't have gone far, but we figure he got into some underbrush or something and hid/died there.  It really sucks to not know where they are or if they're ok, so when my lab started showing signs of that, I knew things were bad.

[dannylion]

I'm so sorry.  It's so hard when our beloved pets are ill.  CHF is generally a treatable condition if there are no other serious comorbidities such as old age, so it is certainly possible that the meds will do their job if given time.  

Sending good thoughts for a positive outcome for your sweet baby.  

[steph08]

I had to put one of our boxers to sleep in early October - he had lymphoma. While not CHF, he had some of the same issues.

He started out just by drinking a lot of water and peeing all over the house - I thought he had a UTI. First vet I saw did bloodwork and urine sample and he did have a minor bladder infection. Pills did not help.

Second vet (same practice) was terrible - said at 6 that he had doggie Alzheimer's. "Maybe he forgot that he drank already so he's drinking more."

I was pissed, to say the least, I went home and called again and said in no uncertain terms that they would fit me in the following morning (Saturday) so that they could run more tests and diagnose him properly. A more in-depth blood panel discovered elevated calcium levels and his swollen lymph nodes (which either popped up overnight or the other vet missed) indicated such.

We discussed but decided against chemo. It could give him a few months to a year, but doggie chemo isn't out for a cure. It's just to buy some time and make them comfortable.

We did a steroid and a chemo pill. It was bad the first week or two - he would eat and obviously drink obsessively, but he kept losing weight and would sleep a lot. But after a week or so, he really bounced back. In fact, he was happier and spunkier than when he had been a puppy. He would play with the other dogs, run around outside, get into trouble, etc.

Just those pills (cost me about $50/month), bought him an extra 7 months of life. I am so glad that we did it, but in the end, the result was the same. The lymphoma returned.

On a Wednesday morning, I woke up to a few pills of vomit, dog food that hadn't digested from 12 hours beforehand. He hardly ever vomited in his life and if he did, it was just bile from being hungry.  He wouldn't eat his dog food, and he ate every day, every thing he could get his paws on, so I knew it wasn't good.  He had been looking skinnier, and his lymph nodes had swelled again. I got him to eat some cheese and lunch meat and some dog treats. However, getting home from work, he had puked all that up again. He wouldn't eat dinner.

When he was first diagnosed, he would come into bed and lay beside me and shake - whether from pain or nerves, I don't know. On that Wednesday night, he crawled into bed and did the same thing. In the morning, he wouldn't eat again and I knew it was time.

You can see it in their eyes. People always said that to me and I never believed it. But it's true. He was so sad and tired and his eyes were looking a little glazed over. I took him into the vet that morning.

I'm glad that we went with the treatment we did because we got so much more time, and it didn't cause him any stress like going to the vet's every week for chemo would have.

Give the treatment a few days to work. I hope your guy responds well to it.

[Cass]

Sorry so many have gone through this

He had a bit of a rest and then I got him outside (vet said the diuretic would make him pee lots and boy does it ever!)  He had a bit of food and a long drink of water.  The exertion caused a bit more labored breathing but nothing as bad as earlier.  Now he has the afternoon to rest in front of the fireplace.  I'm feeling cautiously optimistic that today is not THE day.  Thanks again all.

[Cass]

i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a556/Cassia75/Phone014_zpsd0d9d9d6.jpg

[Deleted]

Awwwww.....look at that big baby. 

[Abby Normal]

So sorry you have to deal with this.  It's never easy to lose your furry friends.

I generally tell people this:

If you don't have the funds- then the right time is when you can no longer support their well being or doing so causes you financial harm.
If you have the funds- then take the finances out of the equation and make the best decision you can for your dog. You do not have to justify your decision to anyone but yourself.

But if you are on the fence, please talk with your vet.  A good vet will tell you if treatment may work, or if there is nothing left to do but make them comfortable.

I put my girl down nearly two years ago, and I can still bring myself to tears thinking about it.  A few weeks ago I took my sick dog to the vet, we were entering the exam room where I put my girl down. I just looked at the tech and said I need a different room.  It's one thing to just have a routine exam there, but I couldn't emotionally deal with taking my sick dog into the same room. 

[tloonya]

Cass,
we had put our beautiful Afghan Hound to sleep at age of 14.
I am still seeing her in my dreams because I am feeling so guilty that I had waited 2 extra days...
Those were bad days. Those were coldest days here and Friday. I should had rushed her to the vets
on Saturday but we had waited until Monday and she was quiet and hope didn't suffer too much.
I should had not made her wait those 2 extra days!!!

[dannylion]

Blue looks like a sweetie pumpkin!  

[Cass]

Thanks danny, he sure is!  He's having a good snooze right now