workpublic
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Catch and release please
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Post by workpublic on Feb 22, 2011 21:19:00 GMT -5
It's kind of hard to teach logic when you believe in natural selection but every idea/feeling/concept you have is to protect, nurture, foster, propagate the weak and sick to the detriment of the strong and healthy for ulterior reasons. can i get a witness?
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 22, 2011 21:20:45 GMT -5
Oped
Hi-fives for the home schooling
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 21:28:01 GMT -5
My last year teaching high school i threw in some Mary Higgins Clark... cause i wanted to try to get them to read something for fun... a foreign concept... it was a 5.6 reading level if i remember correctly.... Just for fun... i went to Renlearn quick... AR scores for Mary Higgins Clark... from 5.1- 6.1 James Patterson's 1st to dies series... 4.4 - 5.5 Stephen King 5.8 - 6.8 Robin Cook 5.7 - 7.0 Michael Chrichton 4.1 - 7.3 Look for yourself... www.renlearn.com/store/quiz_home.asp#quicksearch
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 22, 2011 21:29:31 GMT -5
OMG Awesome link! Thanks! *runs to check her books, curious*
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 22, 2011 21:32:12 GMT -5
My last year teaching high school i threw in some Mary Higgins Clark... cause i wanted to try to get them to read something for fun... a foreign concept... it was a 5.6 reading level if i remember correctly.... Just for fun... i went to Renlearn quick... AR scores for Mary Higgins Clark... from 5.1- 6.1 James Patterson's 1st to dies series... 4.4 - 5.5 Stephen King 5.8 - 6.8 Robin Cook 5.7 - 7.0 Michael Chrichton 4.1 - 7.3 Look for yourself... www.renlearn.com/store/quiz_home.asp#quicksearchAre your number grade level reading? Just asking>
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 22, 2011 21:32:56 GMT -5
Yes, those are grade levels.
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Post by marjar on Feb 22, 2011 21:33:19 GMT -5
Two years ago, my daughter taught a level 300 college class, in American government/politics, at a major university, ranked in the top 50. She was appalled at the caliber of the work her class produced. Sadly, most of it wasn't inability, they did gain entry into a good college, after all. It was apathy. Many students elected this class to fulfill a graduation requirement and cared little about the content. They were just acquiring the credits for their transcript. The only thing they weren't apathetic about was her grading system and red marks over their assignments. She received a great many complaints about grading and her expectations for the class.
Those students who needed help and sought it, were gladly given assistance, but they were few and far between.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 22, 2011 21:34:58 GMT -5
Thanks - I've read some of all of them - loved Crichton (sp)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 21:35:40 GMT -5
That's how i get a 'ballpark' for stuff at home... We have so many book shelves it can be overwhelming... so i put a basket out for each kid of stuff i think is good and 'on level'... and try to get them to pick something from it occasionally... mostly they find their own stuff, but this way if 'there's nothing to read'... (yeah right!)... i can point them toward the basket... They don't level everything... and they only level based on length of sentences, and syllables, etc... not content. I remember teaching Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy that year too... it was on the AR list! .... but there were a few passages i skipped reading out loud (after showing the full boob shot PG version of Romeo and Juliet, i figured i was on thin enough ice ... )
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 21:39:51 GMT -5
Yes, i taught special education, so those were the levels some of them read at, but more interesting material... So many of them never picked up a book for pleasure, so i wanted to at least open them up to the idea that they might... and you can teach structure and character and plot, etc. with just about anything...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 21:42:19 GMT -5
Marjar... writing is a different story... i think that is the big handicap area if you ask me...
But then, the world is also changing, and graphics/visuals are more important... i'd hate for writing to be a 'rare' skill, but i see how it may be losing some of its importance.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 22, 2011 21:44:12 GMT -5
I hand my daughters whatever I just read, regardless of content. If they have questions, they're welcome to ask.
It's a little bit sad that Rudyard Kipling's Jungle Book is considered 8th grade.
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Post by marjar on Feb 22, 2011 21:50:30 GMT -5
Marjar... writing is a different story... i think that is the big handicap area if you ask me... But then, the world is also changing, and graphics/visuals are more important... i'd hate for writing to be a 'rare' skill, but i see how it may be losing some of its importance. Writing *is* different, but American gov and politics? Creative writing it is not. Although, some of the wonderful emails she received, explaining why an assignment was not turned in or why a test was missed, were pretty darn creative.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 21:59:12 GMT -5
Oh...i don't mind with my own kids... they read pretty much what they want... i generally can't even get David Sedaris first in this house anymore... before son... but I had just done a round of calling all the parents at school to explain about subjecting their children to boobs .... so i can remember conciously skipping one paragraph... now i'm wondering which one it was?...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 21:59:39 GMT -5
Its called motivation marjar ... i'd love to read those emails... lol...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 22, 2011 22:21:07 GMT -5
It's kind of hard to teach logic when you believe in natural selection but every idea/feeling/concept you have is to protect, nurture, foster, propagate the weak and sick to the detriment of the strong and healthy for ulterior reasons. can i get a witness? Amen. And I'm STEALING THIS. This is great stuff right here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 22:37:32 GMT -5
I BELIEVE human beings have the ability to overcome natural selection... that we have the brain power to make decisions based on things other than animal instinct... (for instance... choose someone other than the alpha male; base choices on something other than physical beauty and car size...)
I THOUGHT that Jesus Christ had something to say about protecting, nurturing, fostering and propogatng the weak and sick ...
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Feb 22, 2011 22:42:14 GMT -5
Plus more and more crummy jobs, the squeezing of the nonrich, so more bad marriages- since RAYGUN. This Wisc. thing is part of same, dupes.
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Post by marjar on Feb 22, 2011 23:00:14 GMT -5
Aren't some of you guys the same ones who advocate closing public libraries? Hmm, fewer libraries, fewer teachers, more illiterate morons. Who'd a thunkit? The plot thickens.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Hiya! Wake UP!!
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Feb 23, 2011 0:22:15 GMT -5
Nationwide, only 30 percent of public school eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average reading score on the NAEP test was 262 out of 500.
from the article...so Wisconsin DOES VERY WELL----and QED, another total waste of time BS from CNSNews and the Dupes!!! THEY ARE NEVER RIGHT!!! fcs ty
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 0:26:57 GMT -5
What do your kids like to read Loop? I was thinking, my son is actually pretty 12 year old in his likes... and a 'boy' (yes, i know its not all about gender... but) in that he reads, but its not like it can compete with video games... He likes humor... and will go a bit above and beyond for that, but otherwise he's pretty typical... harry potter, percy jackson, manga, Maximum Ride, that kind of stuff... I can usually get him to listen to more 'classic' stuff, but he doesn't pick it volluntarily...
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Feb 23, 2011 0:28:00 GMT -5
It's kind of hard to teach logic when you believe in natural selection but every idea/feeling/concept you have is to protect, nurture, foster, propagate the weak and sick to the detriment of the strong and healthy for ulterior reasons. can i get a witness? You get two: a strawman and a red herring
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Feb 23, 2011 1:22:15 GMT -5
I'm sure that will improve marjar... when we finally get rid of all those cushy salaries and benefits... i'm sure lower pay and worse working conditions will attract a much higher quality of teacher...
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 23, 2011 1:44:00 GMT -5
Oped - the girls are 10 and almost 9. They're fairly typical in their reading too, but DD1 just started Rudyard Kipling's Jungle Book (I specify the author so you know it's the actual book, not one of the random severely abridged versions ). She's a little more.. tomboy? In her preferences. So Percy Jackson was a big hit around here too I think they've both read Narnia, but don't remember anymore (they speed right past me) and DD1 has read the hobbit. DD2 is a bit girly, so any tween that has fairies in it and she's your girl. She's also in love with Laura Ingalls Wilder right now, which gives me hope. I just read Mieville's Un Lun Dun (good read, but not as good as the May Bird series or Gaiman's Neverwhere) and passed that along hoping to nudge her somewhere more interesting. We basically hit up B&N and snag series that seem at least moderately interesting. I will go broke from buying books. I'd like to get them into more non-fiction though, but as long as they're reading as voraciously as they are - I'm happy. The issue at this age is finding content that they like at the reading level they should be striving for. It's pretty much impossible to find a 12th grade level book about fairies and little girls, yanno?
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Post by vl on Feb 23, 2011 7:24:18 GMT -5
Aren't some of you guys the same ones who advocate closing public libraries? Hmm, fewer libraries, fewer teachers, more illiterate morons. Who'd a thunk it? Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=3750&page=2#ixzz1Eme1Rc8NWell, not you. With Borders Books now in Chapter 11 reorganization and bargain hunters buying up what's on the shelves, and many public libraries in funding jeopardy because desk warmers need outrageous pensions for jobs poorly done-- the solution is to eliminate some outdated libraries in favor of retail storefronts with interactivity for a price. The idea of "free" wireless to sell coffee-- failed to get sitters to be drinkers. So did creating giant bookstores. The best future practice will be a Knowledge Store where you pay to gain access to resources you need. Very quickly, research librarians (people who find information) are over-taking ones who stamp books in and out. That said, imagine linking-in with your i-Pad and gaining a pathway to what you want to know or be entertained with. No ads. No porn. No hi-jacked links. I my mind... Borders could easily return smarter, more current and streamlined to accommodate today and tomorrow's learner. BTW... the book "On Writing Well" should be mandatory about 5th grade. It teaches you how to write-- better. Better writing promotes more reading. More reading promotes depth of wisdom.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 9:01:14 GMT -5
The problem there is Amazon. I'm guity of it too... but Amazon just has books so much cheaper, that borders coudln't compete... although if they were a little better about their coupon policies, i would have at least bought more there...
I've also bought a lot through Scolastic this year. I started to do the ordering/organizing for our homeschool group... i order for group school and the book club we started for the kids... They give out lots of free stuff...
My 9 year old is a quicker reader, she also likes more girly things, but will actually read just about anything. 'Better' stuff and 'worse' stuff (Airy Fairy anyone...) ...
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Feb 23, 2011 9:23:29 GMT -5
I'm sure that will improve marjar... when we finally get rid of all those cushy salaries and benefits... i'm sure lower pay and worse working conditions will attract a much higher quality of teacher... We haven't had actual "teachers" for a very long time...what we have are sociologists trying to improve all the kids' self-esteem while force feeding a bunch of information. I graduated with high honors from high school but found out I was grossly unprepared for college. College doesn't stop and wait for all students to catch onto the material, it is up to the student to catch up - so I was totally unprepared for the speed at which college goes through the classwork. There is much more effort and responsibility put onto the shoulders of college students while grade schoolers are cradled far too much. So, personally, I would like to see teacher salaries and benefits cut...I prefer getting people in there that are passionate about teaching, not their paychecks, benefits, and steel-armored "tenure." And to make it more affordable I would fight for not having teachers meet some kind of Masters or Ph D standard...none of which makes a bad teacher better, it just boosts their pay levels - what a waste of resources all around.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 23, 2011 9:35:52 GMT -5
We haven't had teachers since so many parents quit parenting and expected teachers to raise their kids. Then they blame teachers or the government when their kids do poorly in school. Who wants to take responsibility for their kids efforts in school?Too much work....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 9:45:50 GMT -5
"I prefer getting people in there that are passionate about teaching, not their paychecks, benefits"
Yeah... that's all nice and good... but the reality is that it is hard work... and when you get no respect... it doesn't matter if you like kids and teaching, the rest of it just isn't worth the toll it takes...
I fail to see, with your complaints about teachers now, how you think paying them less with fewer benefits, will help attract BETTER teachers? You think the ones who are passionate are not doing it now because of what?... they don't want to be compensated fairly.... so they will wait until the pay and benefits drop... and THEN they'll come out of the woodwork so they can be martyrs to their cause?? ...
When has low pay and bad benefits ever attracted the cream of the crop... what you'll get stuck with is the people who can't do anything else... and are willing to work for anything... and put in just enough effort to collect their check...
I'm sorry.. you want less educated teachers? Is that what you're saying?...
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zipity
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Post by zipity on Feb 23, 2011 10:15:17 GMT -5
I would like to see teacher salaries and benefits cut...I prefer getting people in there that are passionate about teaching, not their paychecks, benefits
I've always thought the same thing about physicians, they should be in the field to heal and save lives. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be working that way.
Interesting thing about the OP link, the full report compares public school to private and as a subsection of private Catholic schools. It makes the point that Catholic school kids scored on average 15 points above public school kids. Based on a max score of 500 points that's a pretty small difference. Drawing the conclusion that public schools have failed and private schools are the way to go based on that data is a pretty flimsy argument.
I don't begrudge teachers a decent wage and "standard" private industry type benefits BUT pensions, accumulated sick time, tenure and non-performance based raises should be phased out.
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