Its a small, small biz!

[mmhmm]

I admit, I'm flabbergasted.  It would never occur to me to start a business without an accountant (or enough knowledge to do it myself), an attorney (for those little niggling things nobody ever thinks of until they fall on you), and all manner of other, knowledgeable support.  If you don't know what you're spending and how it relates to what you're making ... 

Arrrrgggghhhh!  It boggles the mind! 

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Jan 15, 2014 15:03:02 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Can you just open a business and start selling stuff without knowing how much your paying for your location and associated costs, the stuff you're selling, and how much you're making after costs are deducted from sales? Really?

Of course you can.  It's not a good idea, but you absolutely can.

Who's got worse examples than Looney?

I had friends who opened a diner with no experience.  The diner was only open for breakfast/lunch and was attached to a hotel that provided its guests...(wait for it...) a free hot breakfast!  Also, their payroll was roughly 80% of their gross sales when they started.  The business lasted 4 months. 

[Sum Dum Gai]

Accountants are totally overrated.  Quickbooks costs a couple hundred bucks.  It walks you through setting up your chart of accounts.  Any moron can put in expenses and sales after it's set up.  Once a year you hit the little send report to accountant button and you're basically done.

The state is really good at sending you reminders when your sales taxes are due.  Kind of.  They actually send you a really polite letter telling you they'll rain fire and brimstone down upon you if you don't pay them immediately because you're a month late, and they charge you a late fee, but you could in theory only pay them when you get the nasty reminder letters.

Once a year your city/county will send you a reminder to refile for your business license.  It's also pretty descriptive about how if you don't do it in time you lose the ability to transact any business whatsoever within city/county limits.

It's the IRS that will get you.  Those bastards will let you get years behind before they send you anything and the late fees and penalties could buy a private island somewhere.

[milee]

Jan 15, 2014 15:01:54 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Jan 15, 2014 14:54:47 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

  I can't figure it all out for the life of me.  

Neither can Loony, and that's one of the main problems. Ever since she opened several years ago, we've all been repeatedly advising her to get some basic accounting records.  Still hasn't happened.  Believe it or not, this is some of the most detailed information she's ever had.

And for whoever mentioned that you can't get a loan for businesses like this, that's exactly why Loony ended up with that loan she calls the "cc loan."  It's like a payday loan for businesses.  Somewhat shady guys loan a business  some money and in exchange the guys take over all the credit card processing and keep 50% of all credit card sales that the business processes until the loan is paid off.  Rates are high, just like with payday loans.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

The diner was only open for breakfast/lunch and was attached to a hotel that provided its guests...(wait for it...) a free hot breakfast



I probably shouldn't laugh but geez you'd think you'd at least check out what hotel offers before setting your hours.

Lots of people seem to do it if the stories on Resturant Impossible and Kitchen Nightmares are anything to go by.

After all you too can not work for the man and become a sucessful business owner!

[mmhmm]

Jan 15, 2014 15:08:05 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Accountants are totally overrated.  Quickbooks costs a couple hundred bucks.  It walks you through setting up your chart of accounts.  Any moron can put in expenses and sales after it's set up.  Once a year you hit the little send report to accountant button and you're basically done.

This particular moron doesn't trust herself with big stuff like numbers that define what I'm going to eat, how I'm going to pay my bills, and all that other pesky stuff!

[Sum Dum Gai]

Basic business bookkeeping really isn't that hard, and accounting software is pretty easy to use.  A community college course in Quickbooks, Peachtree, or whatever would be all you need to do basic accounting for your business.  You'll still need a CPA you can call for tax questions, like the deduction schedule for store fixtures, and stuff like that, but tracking basic sales and expenses is pretty simple.

[NancysSummerSip]

Jan 15, 2014 15:05:08 GMT -5 sarcasticgirl said:

Jan 15, 2014 12:47:12 GMT -5 Rocky Mtn Saver said:

Truer words were never spoken.

I just spit my tea...

I snorted mine. Great minds think alike.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jan 15, 2014 15:19:54 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Jan 15, 2014 15:05:08 GMT -5 sarcasticgirl said:

I just spit my tea...

I snorted mine. Great minds think alike.

I wish my tea had a slug of Busymom's rum in it...

[NancysSummerSip]

Jan 15, 2014 15:22:01 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Jan 15, 2014 15:19:54 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

I snorted mine. Great minds think alike.

I wish my tea had a slug of Busymom's rum in it...

Good thought. A number of threads would make more sense. Or it wouldn't matter anymore.

[mmhmm]

Jan 15, 2014 15:15:11 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Basic business bookkeeping really isn't that hard, and accounting software is pretty easy to use.  A community college course in Quickbooks, Peachtree, or whatever would be all you need to do basic accounting for your business.  You'll still need a CPA you can call for tax questions, like the deduction schedule for store fixtures, and stuff like that, but tracking basic sales and expenses is pretty simple.

Yeah, I could do the everyday tracking.  That wouldn't worry me.  I was thinking of the accountant more for advice on unusual things that might come up, and on taxes, of course.

[Deleted]

if all you are using your cpa or accountant for is taxes, you are wasting that resource

GOOD accountants can help you run your business

they can look at sales/cogs/expenses

they can make recommendations.....tell you where they see issues

they can help manage your assets.....cash, receivables, inventory, etc

any basic bookkeeper can crunch monthly or quarterly numbers

to see beyond the numbers is where the talent starts to come in.....

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

If you can afford to pay your CPA for that much work, of course.  Most small businesses are trying to minimize that cost by doing everything they can themselves and paying the accountant for only what they really need. 

[tloonya]

Jan 15, 2014 12:47:12 GMT -5 Rocky Mtn Saver said:

Jan 15, 2014 12:42:50 GMT -5 tloonya said:

and I am probably not listing anything.

Truer words were never spoken.

I meant everything...

[tloonya]

Jan 15, 2014 13:08:49 GMT -5 Rocky Mtn Saver said:

Jan 14, 2014 14:48:50 GMT -5 tloonya said:

I am also having about $15K monthly from WIC program and had $500 daily from farm thing for 6 month.

I just realized that this makes her missing money even larger, on average. There's something like $90,000 sales here unaccounted-for from the summer.

To be approved for the program you have to have a farm that producing $1K worth of produce.
So we had not gotten all of the produce from the farm, just some.
I had to have people going to the actual local farms and buying produce from them.
So that was probably 90% loss. However I had hundreds of people who found out about my store and became my customers now.
These vouchers brough in PEOPLE! A LOT OF PEOPLE!!!

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Jan 16, 2014 11:07:57 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Jan 15, 2014 13:08:49 GMT -5 Rocky Mtn Saver said:

I just realized that this makes her missing money even larger, on average. There's something like $90,000 sales here unaccounted-for from the summer.

To be approved for the program you have to have a farm that producing $1K worth of produce.
So we had not gotten all of the produce from the farm, just some.
I had to have people going to the actual local farms and buying produce from them.
So that was probably 90% loss. However I had hundreds of people who found out about my store and became my customers now.
These vouchers brough in PEOPLE! A LOT OF PEOPLE!!!

So, you're saying that you earned $90k last summer, but you only made roughly $9k after expenses?  Okay, so even with that, there is now $9k in your business bank account that was not there before, right? So, why do you need a payday loan? 

[tloonya]

Jan 16, 2014 11:11:16 GMT -5 Rocky Mtn Saver said:

Jan 16, 2014 11:07:57 GMT -5 tloonya said:

To be approved for the program you have to have a farm that producing $1K worth of produce.
So we had not gotten all of the produce from the farm, just some.
I had to have people going to the actual local farms and buying produce from them.
So that was probably 90% loss. However I had hundreds of people who found out about my store and became my customers now.
These vouchers brough in PEOPLE! A LOT OF PEOPLE!!!

So, you're saying that you earned $90k last summer, but you only made roughly $9k after expenses?  Okay, so even with that, there is now $9k in your business bank account that was not there before, right? So, why do you need a payday loan? 

1. If I knew!!! Would we have such conversation?

2. People do not usually take out 20% loans when they  have enough money to shop for the business.

Maybe we are spending too much on groceries...and they don't sell in a heart beat. Not all of them anyway.

I can't seem catch up with my 'buying' vs 'selling'...my 'buying' always win!

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Jan 16, 2014 12:01:09 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Jan 16, 2014 11:11:16 GMT -5 Rocky Mtn Saver said:

So, you're saying that you earned $90k last summer, but you only made roughly $9k after expenses?  Okay, so even with that, there is now $9k in your business bank account that was not there before, right? So, why do you need a payday loan? 

1. If I knew!!! Would we have such conversation?

2. People do not usually take out 20% loans when they  have enough money to shop for the business.

Maybe we are spending too much on groceries...and they don't sell in a heart beat. Not all of them anyway.

I can't seem catch up with my 'buying' vs 'selling'...my 'buying' always win!

It tickles me that we seem more interested in really discovering where your system is going wrong and your money disappearing than you are.  First, you're missing $12k every month and now an additional $9k disappeared from summer.  That's, what, $153,000 this year alone that you don't seem able to account for?  Is the Russian mob visiting you, by any chance?   Or are we going to hear one day that you fled the country for a fantastic Caribbean island life? 

[Deleted]

is your inventory higher in dollars today than say 6 months ago?

do you track how much you have in inventory? if so, how?

without good information it is impossible to even guess what the hell is going on

i would suggest you spend some money and get a cpa to come in and check your books

asking us to identify problems with no REAL numbers is ludicrous at best

[tloonya]

Hey!
I just found a hole cover, small but cover.
I pay for my breads in cash and I have $20K yearly.
I do have breads that I pay check for so it is not all bread I sell.

[Deleted]

keep probing the holes.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Based on your posts, your business just barely breaks even, but you pay yourself $4k a month.  So after all expenses you make right around $4k a month in profit, and you currently take it all as owner draw.  All the other numbers are bunk.  You've been taking $4k a month for a couple years and you're still open, so that's your profit, give or take since you also bounce checks and take CC loans.  Everything else is just guesstimates that have no basis in reality.

[Deleted]

Jan 16, 2014 13:43:45 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

keep probing the holes.

You offering to help her out with that? 

[tloonya]

Jan 16, 2014 13:43:45 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

keep probing the holes.

Ok, I am keeping:
cash for deli items $15K/year

electrician this year $1K
market entrance $750 year...
got to go pull bank fees amount...brb

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Now, you're on track, Looney!    Keep going!  Your hole to fill is about $144,000 for this year. 

[Pants]

Jan 16, 2014 12:12:00 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

is your inventory higher in dollars today than say 6 months ago?

do you track how much you have in inventory? if so, how?

without good information it is impossible to even guess what the hell is going on

i would suggest you spend some money and get a cpa to come in and check your books

asking us to identify problems with no REAL numbers is ludicrous at best

BOOKS!

[tloonya]

Jan 16, 2014 13:46:06 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Based on your posts, your business just barely breaks even, but you pay yourself $4k a month.  So after all expenses you make right around $4k a month in profit, and you currently take it all as owner draw.  All the other numbers are bunk.  You've been taking $4k a month for a couple years and you're still open, so that's your profit, give or take since you also bounce checks and take CC loans.  Everything else is just guesstimates that have no basis in reality.

I swear I want to understand it but...weren't you just telling me I am having thousands of dollars extra?

I will take $4K per month to pay my living no matter what because I need to live somewhere and eat something.

So I used to borrow from Mom, took out loan...did everything I can to be able to pay my bills to save the house.

Thanks to you here I had modified it and now I am paying (sorry, slipped my mind) $3 per month because of modification, however I have to pay DDs housing now...and give her some $$$$ so it is still $4K...

[tloonya]

Jan 16, 2014 13:51:08 GMT -5 Rocky Mtn Saver said:

Now, you're on track, Looney!    Keep going!  Your hole to fill is about $144,000 for this year. 

Dark just told me I am barely breaking even! So...shut up, Rocky

[Wisconsin Beth]

Let's focus here. 

Loony, just keep on listing the stuff you spend for the store. 

[Deleted]

Jan 16, 2014 13:56:40 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Jan 16, 2014 13:46:06 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Based on your posts, your business just barely breaks even, but you pay yourself $4k a month.  So after all expenses you make right around $4k a month in profit, and you currently take it all as owner draw.  All the other numbers are bunk.  You've been taking $4k a month for a couple years and you're still open, so that's your profit, give or take since you also bounce checks and take CC loans.  Everything else is just guesstimates that have no basis in reality.

I swear I want to understand it but...weren't you just telling me I am having thousands of dollars extra?

SHOULD have thousands extra.  But the reality is you don't. So we know that your income - expenses - your $4k draw = zero (roughly)