Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Feb 23, 2011 22:40:29 GMT -5
Indiana GOP removed their anti-union bill today... i thought i read... so that was basically over before it started... Smart people in Indiana.. Yes and no. We elected Daniels, Governor, and he is dragging Indiana into the 20th Century. Note I did not say the 21st Century. He is good, and that was smart. We voted to elect President Obama in 2008. That was bad. It will not happen again.
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Post by privateinvestor on Feb 24, 2011 12:15:38 GMT -5
What bill would do 1) Eliminate collective bargaining rights for most public workers. So while unions still could represent those workers, they would not be able to seek pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum. 2) Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized. 3) Local police, firefighters and state troopers would retain their collective bargaining rights. 4) Public workers would have to pay half the costs of their pensions and at least 12.6 percent of their health care coverage. That represents an average of 8 percent increase in state employees' share of pension and health care costs. In exchange, public employees were promised no furloughs or layoffs. Gov. Scott Walker has threatened to lay off up to 6,000 state workers if the measure does not pass.
Note: This is still a work in progress in the Madison Wisconsin state house or assembly so it could change but is close enough for government work I would assume??
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 24, 2011 18:13:37 GMT -5
Smart people in Indiana.. Yes and no. We elected Daniels, Governor, and he is dragging Indiana into the 20th Century. Note I did not say the 21st Century. He is good, and that was smart. We voted to elect President Obama in 2008. That was bad. It will not happen again. We supporters of .... we thank you for that vote
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 11:55:02 GMT -5
Not currently SF... the current 'repair' bill is over 137 million... you know, after walker gave corporations 140 million tax break... The 3.2 billion is half what the last dem congress had to overcome in Wisconsin... and did so.... and the teachers, etc. are willing to accept increases in their pension/health benefits... just not give up their rights... why is that unreasonable? I will give you just two examples why that is unreasonable. One is an employee in one of our local schools who came to work intoxicated and was taken home. A month later she came to work intoxicated and was taken home. A couple months later she was arrested for possession of heroin. She was not a teacher but still had close interaction with our kids in school everyday and it took them over 2 years to get rid of her. She had protection because of union rules and collected her pay and benefits for 2 years although she was unable to come to work on a regular basis .In the county next to me they caught a teacher shooting heroin in the school parking lot during school hours. She is not teaching since that incident and she probably never will be but is still collecting pay and benefits until they have gone through the entire, long process , because of union rules . Around here that is usually 11/2 to 2 yrs. I understand these are anecdotes but these are just two small counties and these kinds of things I am sure happen to greater and smaller degrees all over the state. The unions have not helped to get these people away from our kids and by not doing that have lost the public trust.
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Post by privateinvestor on Feb 25, 2011 12:26:16 GMT -5
This is now more than just Wisconsin but rather a battle nationwide between state governments and state unions. It effects all 50 states and if collective bargaining is eliminated by Governor Walker then it will be interesting to see what the other governors do including the dems who owe the unions for helping them get elected.. If state workers refuse to concessions then layoffs are the only option that is left on the table so they are between a rock and a hard place.IMHO States that have raised their taxes and fees are still faced with budget deficits due to the costs of their state pensions liabilities. CA has just kicked the can down the road for the past decade and now Brown is doing his best to work with our state legislators who just want to play political games again to save their careers. His proposal is to raise taxes and have layoffs for teachers and state workers..but so far that plan is not being received too well by the both sides of the aisle in Sacramento and I suspect other states have similar issues...
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Feb 25, 2011 12:39:05 GMT -5
Not currently SF... the current 'repair' bill is over 137 million... you know, after walker gave corporations 140 million tax break... The 3.2 billion is half what the last dem congress had to overcome in Wisconsin... and did so.... and the teachers, etc. are willing to accept increases in their pension/health benefits... just not give up their rights... why is that unreasonable? I will give you just two examples why that is unreasonable. One is an employee in one of our local schools who came to work intoxicated and was taken home. A month later she came to work intoxicated and was taken home. A couple months later she was arrested for possession of heroin. She was not a teacher but still had close interaction with our kids in school everyday and it took them over 2 years to get rid of her. She had protection because of union rules and collected her pay and benefits for 2 years although she was unable to come to work on a regular basis .In the county next to me they caught a teacher shooting heroin in the school parking lot during school hours. She is not teaching since that incident and she probably never will be but is still collecting pay and benefits until they have gone through the entire, long process , because of union rules . Around here that is usually 11/2 to 2 yrs. I understand these are anecdotes but these are just two small counties and these kinds of things I am sure happen to greater and smaller degrees all over the state. The unions have not helped to get these people away from our kids and by not doing that have lost the public trust. But that has nothing to do with collective bargaining rights that the Governor wants to make illegal. Those examples are examples of civil service job protection laws which the Governor has said he will not touch. Does no one else see the stupidity of this?
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 25, 2011 12:44:28 GMT -5
Yes the stupidity has to be that even the Democrats most highly praised President knew back in 1937 that a union of public employees would not work out well. You can not have elected officials signing contractual agreements with people who have no jeopardy in their requests and demands. Our state budgets only prove that point.
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Deleted
Joined: Mar 28, 2024 21:40:00 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 12:56:53 GMT -5
I will give you just two examples why that is unreasonable. One is an employee in one of our local schools who came to work intoxicated and was taken home. A month later she came to work intoxicated and was taken home. A couple months later she was arrested for possession of heroin. She was not a teacher but still had close interaction with our kids in school everyday and it took them over 2 years to get rid of her. She had protection because of union rules and collected her pay and benefits for 2 years although she was unable to come to work on a regular basis .In the county next to me they caught a teacher shooting heroin in the school parking lot during school hours. She is not teaching since that incident and she probably never will be but is still collecting pay and benefits until they have gone through the entire, long process , because of union rules . Around here that is usually 11/2 to 2 yrs. I understand these are anecdotes but these are just two small counties and these kinds of things I am sure happen to greater and smaller degrees all over the state. The unions have not helped to get these people away from our kids and by not doing that have lost the public trust. But that has nothing to do with collective bargaining rights that the Governor wants to make illegal. Those examples are examples of civil service job protection laws which the Governor has said he will not touch. Does no one else see the stupidity of this? It has everything to do with bargaining rights. It does not take take 2 yrs to get rid of a horrible employee in any position not backed by a union.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 13:05:02 GMT -5
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Post by robbase on Feb 25, 2011 23:55:49 GMT -5
but is the problem really the pay and benefits of the gov. workers or is it that the gov wasted money on many other things in the past and let the problem build for too many years
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 0:09:26 GMT -5
All of the above
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Feb 26, 2011 10:44:04 GMT -5
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Post by privateinvestor on Feb 26, 2011 11:29:06 GMT -5
Topic: confused by Wisconsin
No but Wisconsin school teachers could suffer the same faith as in California......more than 30,000 pink slips are going out next week to the teachers unions because they were not willing to collectively bargain with Schwarzenegger and Brown was not able to even get them to the table...
Two choices by the teachers unions either bargain to reduce union demands or face layoffs
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