|
Post by robbase on Feb 21, 2011 12:00:18 GMT -5
so "we" generally find people that don't pay their mortgages are "wrong" because they signed the deal, should have known better, yadda yadda yadda....
so we do we not think the government is wrong in Wisconsin vs. the teachers, etc.? The government made the deals and should have known better...No?
|
|
rockon
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 8:49:55 GMT -5
Posts: 2,384
|
Post by rockon on Feb 21, 2011 12:04:09 GMT -5
Yep they did but it didn't make it right. No?
|
|
|
Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 21, 2011 12:09:53 GMT -5
There is a conflict of interest here with any level of govt and the govt employees. It is that the govt employee unions are heavy supporters of election campaigns, with respect to large voting blocks and huge campaign donations. The public trust is being violated.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,400
|
Post by Tennesseer on Feb 21, 2011 12:10:58 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 21, 2011 12:16:24 GMT -5
Wisconsin has a $3.2 billion budget gap...that is a big mistake in anyone's book.
|
|
b2r
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:35:25 GMT -5
Posts: 7,257
|
Post by b2r on Feb 21, 2011 12:19:19 GMT -5
|
|
workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
|
Post by workpublic on Feb 21, 2011 12:54:17 GMT -5
so "we" generally find people that don't pay their mortgages are "wrong" because they signed the deal, should have known better, yadda yadda yadda....
so we do we not think the government is wrong in Wisconsin vs. the teachers, etc.? The government made the deals and should have known better...No?
what collateral can the state sell to live up to the promise they "defaulted" on?
land, buildings?
or would they declare bankruptcy(like the public can) first?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 23, 2024 22:49:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2011 13:56:02 GMT -5
I guess we can add it to the feds bill. Why not? trying to do it legally, within the State, is apparently very unpopular.
|
|
jkapp
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 12:05:08 GMT -5
Posts: 5,416
|
Post by jkapp on Feb 21, 2011 14:00:37 GMT -5
so "we" generally find people that don't pay their mortgages are "wrong" because they signed the deal, should have known better, yadda yadda yadda.... so we do we not think the government is wrong in Wisconsin vs. the teachers, etc.? The government made the deals and should have known better...No? This comparison only works if the mortgagee got the mortgage broker their job and as payback the mortgage broker worked to get thru a fraudulent mortgage that no one could afford.
|
|
|
Post by robbase on Feb 21, 2011 16:36:55 GMT -5
so the average union worker got the government official elected? the people of Wisconsin that voted in these elections had nothing to do with it?
|
|
ugonow
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:15:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,397
|
Post by ugonow on Feb 21, 2011 17:24:37 GMT -5
Any moreso than the voter who is employed by a company that does business with the government? Many large industries and companies even depend on government contracts. Do their lobbyists or voter/employees do anything different?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 23, 2024 22:49:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2011 18:50:03 GMT -5
Not currently SF... the current 'repair' bill is over 137 million... you know, after walker gave corporations 140 million tax break...
The 3.2 billion is half what the last dem congress had to overcome in Wisconsin... and did so.... and the teachers, etc. are willing to accept increases in their pension/health benefits... just not give up their rights... why is that unreasonable?
|
|
Loopdilou
Well-Known Member
AKA Mrs. Dark Honor
Joined: Feb 27, 2012 19:41:33 GMT -5
Posts: 1,365
|
Post by Loopdilou on Feb 21, 2011 18:59:26 GMT -5
Any moreso than the voter who is employed by a company that does business with the government? Many large industries and companies even depend on government contracts. Do their lobbyists or voter/employees do anything different? LOL! This is actually interesting to consider. My husband only voted Republican while he was in the military because he knew that funding would increase for the military if republicans were in office.
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Feb 21, 2011 21:19:47 GMT -5
It seems as of about a hour and a half ago, there has been no change by the oparties on how they stand on the issue..both holding to their guns so to speak, legislature concentrating on the minor parts of business they can decide on -------------------------------------------------------------------- news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110222/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions---------------------------------------------------------------- ..Neither side budging in Wisconsin union fight By SCOTT BAUER, Associated Press Scott Bauer, Associated Press – 1 hr 54 mins ago MADISON, Wis. – No resolution appeared imminent Monday to the stalemate over union rights in Wisconsin, leaving Senate Republicans resigned to forge ahead with less-controversial business such as tax breaks for dairy farmers and commending the Green Bay Packers on winning the Super Bowl. As the standoff entered its second week, none of the major players offered any signs of backing down in a high-stakes game of political chicken that has riveted the nation and led to ongoing public protests that drew a high of 68,000 people on Saturday. Thousands more braved cold winds and temperatures in the 20s to march again on Monday, waving signs that said "Stop the attack on Wisconsin families" and "solidarity." The 14 Senate Democrats who skipped town Thursday to indefinitely delay a vote on Republican Gov. Scott Walker's bill stripping most collective bargaining rights from nearly all public employees remained missing in action for a fifth " ---------------------------------------------------------------- "Walker's plan would allow unions representing most public employees to negotiate only for wage increases, not benefits or working conditions. Any wage increase above the Consumer Price Index would have to be approved in a referendum. Unions would face a vote of membership every year to stay formed, and workers could opt out of paying dues. The plan would also require many public employees to cut their take home pay by about 8 percent by contributing more of their salaries toward their health insurance and retirement benefits, concessions the unions have said they're willing to accept. But Walker and Republicans are showing no willingness to budge while the Senate Democrats say they are prepared to stay away for weeks if that's what it will take" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- {click on link to go to article}
|
|
humok
Established Member
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 9:33:39 GMT -5
Posts: 265
|
Post by humok on Feb 21, 2011 21:24:16 GMT -5
first lets understand that our govt very much promotes the hiring of minorities and anyone with disabilities....Now that being said do you suppose the govt will lay them off just to help balance their/our budget? That would go against everything they have pushed on the rest of us for 40 years and more.
|
|
hello fromWarsaw
Senior Member
Hiya! Wake UP!!
Joined: Feb 13, 2011 1:24:04 GMT -5
Posts: 2,044
|
Post by hello fromWarsaw on Feb 22, 2011 1:08:42 GMT -5
Bought off Pub Gov. trying to destroy collective bargaining rights. Never mentioned THAT in campaign. Teachers ffs have already said ok to cuts...Check your media for truth.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 23, 2024 22:49:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 14:13:15 GMT -5
I am in continual disbelief that many of you cannot distinguish the difference between unions for the state and unions in the private sector. How embarrassing that must be.
|
|
workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
|
Post by workpublic on Feb 22, 2011 14:38:25 GMT -5
Bought off Pub Gov
the ones the majority of the state elected. before that they were electing the Bought off(by municipal unions) Dem Gov.
if the voters in WI want to back municipal unions, they will vote dems back in. it appears that they don't.
the "pro democracy movement" understands that. ;D
|
|
workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
|
Post by workpublic on Feb 22, 2011 14:39:48 GMT -5
I am in continual disbelief that many of you cannot distinguish the difference between unions for the state and unions in the private sector. How embarrassing that must be.
like legal and illegal immigrant.
the "confusion" a lot of the times is merely subterfuge from the left, imho.
|
|
|
Post by vl on Feb 22, 2011 15:50:09 GMT -5
During these last elections, the entire button-pusher generation impulsively voted for the "other guy" after getting texted the poop on the "in" guy. Since the 1960s we've had tons of zombie movements where the facts are suppressed and propaganda rules. Wisconsin was a sitting duck state for Republican take-over. Now the citizens are AWAKE and learning why FACTS are so important to know. If the teachers lose that 12%, it will assuredly force many more families into bankruptcy and foreclosure. 1 in 4 counties nationwide are dying... without the craft industries that used to comprise the Wisconsin economy, it will fall. Further, it has Great Lakes access and the ultimate Republican conquest is to control 20% of the world's fresh water supply and turn it into a commodity.
Republicans are puppets of evil. Some 40,000 Wisconsin AMERICANS have assembled at Wisconsin's capitol. that's a national security threat. It would be prudent to spirit away the governor and Congress to GITMO and house them there in their underwear while grown-ups resolve the budget short-fall issue. A state that in-debted deserves to shut down all oligarchies like Wal-Mart, Chase and Monsanto, so they can rebuild small businesses and hire back all the missing REVENUE GENERATORS.
|
|
rockon
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 8:49:55 GMT -5
Posts: 2,384
|
Post by rockon on Feb 22, 2011 16:06:41 GMT -5
VL Interesting view and it again gives some explanation as to why our nation is where it is at. Too many still think that "their party" will fix whats wrong and it just ain't goin' happen. Forget pointing out the obvious evil in a specific person or party and start dealing with the fundamentals that got us so far off track. Neither party is going to do the right thing. They are guided by the premise that if they keep a good poker face and say things that please a few large segments of the population there is a reasonable chance they will be elected to office. Unless we stage our own revolt and demand that business be conducted properly in Washington our destination is certain.
|
|
workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
|
Post by workpublic on Feb 22, 2011 16:11:00 GMT -5
so they can rebuild small businesses and hire back all the missing REVENUE GENERATORS.
and then tax them out of existence so that an overpaid, under worked, govt janitor, who got his job through connections(govt jobs aren't really open to the public) can go on a three week vacation, enjoy cost of living increases, and accrue 100s of paid sick days before he retires to his pension(if he doesn't go out on disability first), with heavily public subsidized health care?
VL,
imho you have it half right. we do need to purge the system of "corporate/bankster takers", but we also have to get rid of the "municipal union takers too".
each party is owned by one or the other. each costs the taxpayers money. let's start somewhere. WI is good place to start.
|
|
vonnie6200
Senior Member
Adopt a Shelter Pet
Joined: Jan 8, 2011 14:07:17 GMT -5
Posts: 2,199
|
Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 22, 2011 16:12:15 GMT -5
VL Interesting view and it again gives some explanation as to why our nation is where it is at. Too many still think that "their party" will fix whats wrong and it just ain't goin' happen. Forget pointing out the obvious evil in a specific person or party and start dealing with the fundamentals that got us so far off track. Neither party is going to do the right thing. They are guided by the premise that if they keep a good poker face and say things that please a few large segments of the population there is a reasonable chance they will be elected to office. Unless we stage our own revolt and demand that business be conducted properly in Washington our destination is certain.
|
|
b2r
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:35:25 GMT -5
Posts: 7,257
|
Post by b2r on Feb 22, 2011 17:56:40 GMT -5
Shocking Level of Influence Exposed: Union Boss Trumka Talks to White House EVERY DAY and Visits a Couple Times A Week
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Feb 22, 2011 18:10:30 GMT -5
There is a conflict of interest here with any level of govt and the govt employees. It is that the govt employee unions are heavy supporters of election campaigns, with respect to large voting blocks and huge campaign donations. The public trust is being violated. That would be the same conflict of interest that there is every time a company donates to a political person/party or action committee etc in the state or country that they hope to do or get business from or get laws that would benefit them personally. Yet the Supreme Court ruled that those donations of money are a form of protected free speech. I have been vocal that those contracts have to be gone over and fixed before they blow up and destroy everyone. But doing that does not require stripping people of their rights. This is clearly a political thing and not about fiscal responsibility at all. This is about a politician using an opportunity to take out his opponent. In case anyone cares there are people who post here who can attest I am neither a democrat nor considered by some to be pro teacher.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 23, 2024 22:49:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 21:10:28 GMT -5
Yeah.. but its no conflict of interest when the same bill contains no bid contract terminology that benefits friend corporations (achoo... koch... achoo...)
|
|
|
Post by robbase on Feb 23, 2011 21:12:44 GMT -5
enough said on this already?
|
|
Value Buy
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Posts: 18,680
Today's Mood: Getting better by the day!
Location: In the middle of enjoying retirement!
Favorite Drink: Zombie Dust from Three Floyd's brewery
Mini-Profile Name Color: e61975
Mini-Profile Text Color: 196ce6
|
Post by Value Buy on Feb 23, 2011 22:27:52 GMT -5
enough said on this already? Well, it has spread to Indiana now. Some Democrats have escaped the state Capitol in Indianapolis, for of all places Urbana Illinois, to fight the good fight against the evil Republicans in Indiana.......... I can now firmly assure everyone, that President Obama will NOT win Indiana in 2012, as he did in 2008. Hopefully he loses Ohio, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania in 2012 also. The more the Unions and Democrats protest and hide, the stronger the movement is getting in the Republican Party. Now, if we only had a National contender for the nomination...........................................just a real small detail to finish up
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 23, 2024 22:49:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 22:30:47 GMT -5
Indiana GOP removed their anti-union bill today... i thought i read... so that was basically over before it started...
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Feb 23, 2011 22:33:17 GMT -5
Indiana GOP removed their anti-union bill today... i thought i read... so that was basically over before it started... Smart people in Indiana..
|
|