Husband wants pregnant Wife off Life Support...

[justme]

A lot of articles on this I've seen said she was brain dead. A few have said her brain ceased activity. And one or two have said she's merely unconscious but wouldn't survive off a ventilator. Wonder which one it is.

[DVM gone riding]

True and if she could speak it would be her right to make that decision. BUT we have nothing from her besides her husbands word that is what she would have wanted, we also have no evidence that there is anything wrong with the child other then an unconnected neurologist in a different state saying that there "could be" which is a risk  you take with ANY pregnancy.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

If she had a DNR that specifically said to let the baby die, then I guess they would have to follow it. But they don't.

She did have a DNR, but she was 14 weeks pregnant at the time. Because she was pregnant (regardless of gestation) TX law states that the DNR is null and void. State law trumps.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 28, 2013 20:25:10 GMT -5 DVM gone riding said:

True and if she could speak it would be her right to make that decision. BUT we have nothing from her besides her husbands word that is what she would have wanted, we also have no evidence that there is anything wrong with the child other then an unconnected neurologist in a different state saying that there "could be" which is a risk  you take with ANY pregnancy.

Actually, her wants were very clearly spelled out.  Apparently her family recently went through this with her brother and she made her wants known then.

www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/25/texas-hospital-forbids-husband-of-brain-dead-pregnant-wife-to-remove-her-from-life-support/

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 28, 2013 20:08:47 GMT -5 DVM gone riding said:

One major difference between this case and the girl in CA is that the women has NOT been declared brain dead as far as I can tell. If she was brain dead I would think the fetuses chances near zero but in a vegetative state no actual harm is being done to her she is acting as an incubator and completely an aware of the situation. Given a chance the baby may be normalish. We don't know how can we kill it because its mother is non-responsive?  

The woman IS brain dead.  Her brain was deprived of oxygen for over an hour.  What sort of shape do you suppose the fetus is in?

[Sum Dum Gai]

She's incapacitaded, her husbands word that this is what she'd want should be enough. If I'm incapacitated my wife makes all my medical decisions. I trust her more than anyone else on the planet. That's how it should work.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

The rest of the family concurs with her husband.....

Erick Munoz says that he and his wife, who are both paramedics, have had many conversations about end-of-life care. “We talked about it. We’re both paramedics,” he told WFAA. “We’ve seen things out in the field. We both knew that we both didn’t want to be on life support.”

Her mother, Lynne Machado, agreed, noting that after Marlise’s brother died tragically several years ago, the family had discussed the issue. “We were all on the same page,” Machado told NBC News. “None of us want to be on life support.”

There is no disputing Marlise Munoz’s condition. According to her mother, “they did a CAT scan and an EEG and there was no brain activity. She was clinically declared brain dead. The doctors said she had been without oxygen for well over an hour.”

[DVM gone riding]

Dec 28, 2013 21:12:32 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

If she had a DNR that specifically said to let the baby die, then I guess they would have to follow it. But they don't.

She did have a DNR, but she was 14 weeks pregnant at the time. Because she was pregnant (regardless of gestation) TX law states that the DNR is null and void. State law trumps.

Then why did her husband do cpr in the first place I am glad the husband is able to deal with the reality of his wife's condition very sad to have to deal with such a devastating loss.

[DVM gone riding]

Dec 28, 2013 21:52:57 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

The rest of the family concurs with her husband.....

Erick Munoz says that he and his wife, who are both paramedics, have had many conversations about end-of-life care. “We talked about it. We’re both paramedics,” he told WFAA. “We’ve seen things out in the field. We both knew that we both didn’t want to be on life support.”

Her mother, Lynne Machado, agreed, noting that after Marlise’s brother died tragically several years ago, the family had discussed the issue. “We were all on the same page,” Machado told NBC News. “None of us want to be on life support.”

There is no disputing Marlise Munoz’s condition. According to her mother, “they did a CAT scan and an EEG and there was no brain activity. She was clinically declared brain dead. The doctors said she had been without oxygen for well over an hour.”

Why I don't disagree that she should be allowed to finish dying, that doesn't sound like she actually had a DNR in place as others are claiming. Though I guess it doesn't matter as TX law says it doesn't. If they baby was deprived of Oxygen for an hour it most likely is going to die in utero at some point on its own. Then everyone will be happy right? I actually think given the length of time she has to gestate that a judge might decide it is in the best interest to let her go. BUT he does have to consider the law which was put in place for logical reasons, if she were 8 months along and could be supported on life support for a short time to potentially deliver a healthy fetus wouldn't most women intentionally getting pregnant want that??

[DVM gone riding]

Dec 28, 2013 21:20:08 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

She's incapacitaded, her husbands word that this is what she'd want should be enough. If I'm incapacitated my wife makes all my medical decisions. I trust her more than anyone else on the planet. That's how it should work.

I am glad you feel it should work that way but the fact is it doesn't. Have you actually given your wife that authority. Because otherwise if you are incapacitated even finding out simple things like what meds you are being given may be a lot harder then you think. there are a LOT of stages short of being hooked to a ventilator and you would be surprised at what decisions your wife is NOT allowed to make if you are incapacitated but not brain dead.

[Shooby]

Dec 28, 2013 21:18:31 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Dec 28, 2013 20:08:47 GMT -5 DVM gone riding said:

One major difference between this case and the girl in CA is that the women has NOT been declared brain dead as far as I can tell. If she was brain dead I would think the fetuses chances near zero but in a vegetative state no actual harm is being done to her she is acting as an incubator and completely an aware of the situation. Given a chance the baby may be normalish. We don't know how can we kill it because its mother is non-responsive?  

The woman IS brain dead.  Her brain was deprived of oxygen for over an hour.  What sort of shape do you suppose the fetus is in?

Nature has very strong mechanism to allow the fetus to survive insults.  The FACT that this baby is still ALIVE should be a source of rejoicing for the family.  Sorry, but I cannot honestly understand this husband and grandparents who wouldn't want to do everything possible to allow this child to come into to the world.  I seriously doubt this woman drew up a DNR that said "If I collapse while I am pregnant, then just let me die and let my baby die too even if he/she has a CHANCE to live". 
  What are the neonatolotists and fetologists saying?

[Shooby]

Dec 28, 2013 20:14:16 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Some of us would choose to abort normalish babies instead of having them. Especially if we already had young kids to take care of. This woman may feel the same way, if she wasn't a vegetable right now.

Yes and that demonstrates what a SICK society of human beings we have become.

[Shooby]

Dec 28, 2013 20:14:16 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Some of us would choose to abort normalish babies instead of having them. Especially if we already had young kids to take care of. This woman may feel the same way, if she wasn't a vegetable right now.

Or she may NOT.  And, since we don't know that, Doctors have a medical OBLIGATION to do everything in their power to save this child.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2013 23:58:53 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Dec 28, 2013 21:18:31 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

The woman IS brain dead.  Her brain was deprived of oxygen for over an hour.  What sort of shape do you suppose the fetus is in?

Nature has very strong mechanism to allow the fetus to survive insults.  The FACT that this baby is still ALIVE should be a source of rejoicing for the family.  Sorry, but I cannot honestly understand this husband and grandparents who wouldn't want to do everything possible to allow this child to come into to the world.  I seriously doubt this woman drew up a DNR that said "If I collapse while I am pregnant, then just let me die and let my baby die too even if he/she has a CHANCE to live". 
  What are the neonatolotists and fetologists saying?

Nature wouldn't have let the mother or the fetus survive.    Nature is a bitch.

[mmhmm]

Dec 28, 2013 23:45:22 GMT -5 DVM gone riding said:

Dec 28, 2013 21:12:32 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

If she had a DNR that specifically said to let the baby die, then I guess they would have to follow it. But they don't.

She did have a DNR, but she was 14 weeks pregnant at the time. Because she was pregnant (regardless of gestation) TX law states that the DNR is null and void. State law trumps.

Then why did her husband do cpr in the first place I am glad the husband is able to deal with the reality of his wife's condition very sad to have to deal with such a devastating loss.

You always do CPR if you find someone down because you don't know how long they've been down.  It may only have been a couple of minutes.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Dec 28, 2013 23:59:36 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Dec 28, 2013 20:14:16 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Some of us would choose to abort normalish babies instead of having them. Especially if we already had young kids to take care of. This woman may feel the same way, if she wasn't a vegetable right now.

Yes and that demonstrates what a SICK society of human beings we have become.

Become nothing. Throughout history people have killed abnormal babies after birth. The early Greeks would leave them in the wild to die.

[Shooby]

Dec 29, 2013 1:42:47 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Dec 28, 2013 23:59:36 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Yes and that demonstrates what a SICK society of human beings we have become.

Become nothing. Throughout history people have killed abnormal babies after birth. The early Greeks would leave them in the wild to die.

Yes, but now we are very efficient killing machines with over 50 million+ abortions.  Uh huh. 

[billisonboard]

Dec 29, 2013 10:49:22 GMT -5 Shooby said:

... Yes, but now we are very efficient killing machines with over 50 million+ abortions.  Uh huh. 

Do you have an evidence to support this claim that the killing was done efficently?