Canada strikes down prostitution restrictions

[Deleted]

OTTAWA — The Supreme Court of Canada struck down all current restrictions on prostitution on Friday, including bans on brothels and on street solicitation, declaring the laws were unconstitutional because they violated prostitutes' safety. (Front page MSN.) In the land of the free here in the US, why is prostitution illegal?

[Deleted]

Prostitution isn't illegal in Canada however the laws surrounding it have been somewhat archaic to enforce and highly discriminatory.
I hope they set up a system by which these people can operate safely and pay taxes.

[mmhmm]

Dec 20, 2013 14:01:36 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

OTTAWA — The Supreme Court of Canada struck down all current restrictions on prostitution on Friday, including bans on brothels and on street solicitation, declaring the laws were unconstitutional because they violated prostitutes' safety. (Front page MSN.) In the land of the free here in the US, why is prostitution illegal?

I believe this is because some are wont to impose their moral values on others, jma, and laws are enacted to facilitate the imposition.  

[workpublic]

i disagree mmhmm. imho. it's because there is big money for folks outside of the profession to be made off of it being illegal, ditto drugs. legalization of both would take away the gravy train of the massive bloated govt/private agencies set up to fight it, to incarcerate, to rehab. millions of govt/private jobs lost, power of control lost. "sin" laws/taxes may have been originally set up with moral views but once the govt figured out how to institutionalize the "problem" it became a gold mine.

[AGB]

Dec 20, 2013 14:12:05 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 20, 2013 14:01:36 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

OTTAWA — The Supreme Court of Canada struck down all current restrictions on prostitution on Friday, including bans on brothels and on street solicitation, declaring the laws were unconstitutional because they violated prostitutes' safety. (Front page MSN.) In the land of the free here in the US, why is prostitution illegal?

I believe this is because some are wont to impose their moral values on others, jma, and laws are enacted to facilitate the imposition.  

Or is it an attempt to protect women:

"Prostitution has been condemned as a form of human rights abuse and an attack on the dignity and worth of human beings. Women in developing countries are especially vulnerable to being exploited and trafficked into the sex trade." link

[djAdvocate]

Dec 20, 2013 14:01:36 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

OTTAWA — The Supreme Court of Canada struck down all current restrictions on prostitution on Friday, including bans on brothels and on street solicitation, declaring the laws were unconstitutional because they violated prostitutes' safety. (Front page MSN.) In the land of the free here in the US, why is prostitution illegal?

because we are a bunch of puritan busy-bodies, that's why. 
because we can't mind our own f-ing business.

consensual crimes should be lined out in free societies.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 21, 2013 11:33:45 GMT -5 AGB said:

Dec 20, 2013 14:12:05 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I believe this is because some are wont to impose their moral values on others, jma, and laws are enacted to facilitate the imposition.  

Or is it an attempt to protect women:

"Prostitution has been condemned as a form of human rights abuse and an attack on the dignity and worth of human beings. Women in developing countries are especially vulnerable to being exploited and trafficked into the sex trade." link

generally speaking, it exploits women to the degree it is kept illegal.

[mmhmm]

Dec 21, 2013 11:33:45 GMT -5 AGB said:

Dec 20, 2013 14:12:05 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I believe this is because some are wont to impose their moral values on others, jma, and laws are enacted to facilitate the imposition.  

Or is it an attempt to protect women:

"Prostitution has been condemned as a form of human rights abuse and an attack on the dignity and worth of human beings. Women in developing countries are especially vulnerable to being exploited and trafficked into the sex trade." link

I understand the problem in developing countries, AGB, having lived in said for over 20 years.  We, however, are talking about right here at home.  Although trafficking rings are found in the US, they're not the common pathway into prostitution in this country.  Women make this decision for themselves, as often as not.  It's their decision to make; not mine, not yours, not anyone else's.  It's up to them whether they feel their dignity and worth is at stake.  Many do not, and those who do not don't really wish to have others "protect" them from themselves. Were prostitution legal, the trafficking rings would dry up and blow away, and laws could be written to protect those in the industry - as they currently are in areas of Nevada where prostitution is legal as long as it is within a legal brothel.  At least, that's the way I see it.

[AGB]

Dec 21, 2013 11:44:09 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 21, 2013 11:33:45 GMT -5 AGB said:

Or is it an attempt to protect women:

"Prostitution has been condemned as a form of human rights abuse and an attack on the dignity and worth of human beings. Women in developing countries are especially vulnerable to being exploited and trafficked into the sex trade." link

generally speaking, it exploits women to the degree it is kept illegal.

True. Are you in favor of legalizing prostitution then?

[AGB]

Dec 21, 2013 11:46:33 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 21, 2013 11:33:45 GMT -5 AGB said:

Or is it an attempt to protect women:

"Prostitution has been condemned as a form of human rights abuse and an attack on the dignity and worth of human beings. Women in developing countries are especially vulnerable to being exploited and trafficked into the sex trade." link

I understand the problem in developing countries, AGB, having lived in said for over 20 years.  We, however, are talking about right here at home.  Although trafficking rings are found in the US, they're not the common pathway into prostitution in this country.  Women make this decision for themselves, as often as not.  It's their decision to make; not mine, not yours, not anyone else's.  It's up to them whether they feel their dignity and worth is at stake.  Many do not, and those who do not don't really wish to have others "protect" them from themselves. Were prostitution legal, the trafficking rings would dry up and blow away, and laws could be written to protect those in the industry - as they currently are in areas of Nevada where prostitution is legal as long as it is within a legal brothel.  At least, that's the way I see it.

Would you be okay with your daughter becoming a prostitute or your son marrying one? I'm not asking if you would respect their choices, but what your honest gut reaction would be when you learned of those decisions.

[mmhmm]

I didn't face that situation, so I had to think about it for a bit.  Prostitution is certainly not a profession to which I would have been called.  I'm pretty sure I'd discuss it with my daughter to be sure she was making the decision with all the facts at hand.  Beyond that, if she's an adult the decision is hers, not mine.  Heck, I wasn't in favor of her going into computer programming because I knew it wasn't a good fit for her.  She did it anyway and did well, but burnt out and found another profession.  I didn't interfere then, and I wouldn't interfere today.  Her choices as an adult are hers to make, as is my son's choice of a wife.  While I might not agree, on either side, it's not my decision and I would not try to make it for them.  I would just wish them well, support them in their decision, and love them as I've always loved them.  I'm just not one to interfere in the decisions of another, AGB - not even if that other is my own offspring.

[AGB]

Dec 21, 2013 12:04:58 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I didn't face that situation, so I had to think about it for a bit.  Prostitution is certainly not a profession to which I would have been called.  I'm pretty sure I'd discuss it with my daughter to be sure she was making the decision with all the facts at hand.  Beyond that, if she's an adult the decision is hers, not mine.  Heck, I wasn't in favor of her going into computer programming because I knew it wasn't a good fit for her.  She did it anyway and did well, but burnt out and found another profession.  I didn't interfere then, and I wouldn't interfere today.  Her choices as an adult are hers to make, as is my son's choice of a wife.  While I might not agree, on either side, it's not my decision and I would not try to make it for them.  I would just wish them well, support them in their decision, and love them as I've always loved them.  I'm just not one to interfere in the decisions of another, AGB - not even if that other is my own offspring.

Like I said, I wasn't asking if you would respect the decision, but how you would feel about it, if you would be okay with it. You say you "might not agree", so the follow up is, why not... is there something wrong with it, and if so, is it wrong enough to the degree that it should remain prohibited. I can tell you that my gut reaction would not be admiration for an empowered woman making a decision on a profession she considers to be a good fit for her.

[mmhmm]

Whether I'm okay with it, or not, isn't at issue.  It's not my decision, AGB.  My feelings are not what should drive that decision and I am not the type to allow them to do so.  For me, such a decision would be wrong, as I said.  I, however, don't call the shots for anyone other than myself.  If my daughter made such a decision, it would not affect my feelings for her.  She's still my daughter.  I, however, am not her and she is not me.  For all I know, the decision might be the right one for her.  YMMV

[Deleted]

Prostitution really is the oldest profession, its not going away.
I believe that having it legal and laws made around it to SUPPORT the prostitutes in being contract workers would be helpful in that it may rid the profession of the pimps and others that profit off of these people.

[AGB]

Dec 21, 2013 12:19:42 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Whether I'm okay with it, or not, isn't at issue.  It's not my decision, AGB.  My feelings are not what should drive that decision and I am not the type to allow them to do so.  For me, such a decision would be wrong, as I said.  I, however, don't call the shots for anyone other than myself.  If my daughter made such a decision, it would not affect my feelings for her.  She's still my daughter.  I, however, am not her and she is not me.  For all I know, the decision might be the right one for her.  YMMV

It is at issue, since that was the question I asked. As you can tell from a reply of mine on another thread, I get that there is a difference between holding a particular belief and wanting your government to regulate it in accordance to your believes. I get the impression that you're not interested in going down the path of, is this particular topic "wrong enough" to warrant regulation, so I will respect that.

[mmhmm]

Because you ask a certain question, AGB, that doesn't make it an issue for me.  As I see it, my opinions are my opinions and the opinions of others are theirs.  The opinion of the deciding individual, when a decision is applicable to their life, is the one that should take precedence, IMO.  I can't decide what's "wrong enough" for someone else.

[AGB]

Dec 21, 2013 12:44:31 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Because you ask a certain question, AGB, that doesn't make it an issue for me.  As I see it, my opinions are my opinions and the opinions of others are theirs.  The opinion of the deciding individual, when a decision is applicable to their life, is the one that should take precedence, IMO.  I can't decide what's "wrong enough" for someone else.

I would hope we can agree that some things are universally "wrong enough" for someone else.

[mmhmm]

Dec 21, 2013 14:35:54 GMT -5 AGB said:

Dec 21, 2013 12:44:31 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Because you ask a certain question, AGB, that doesn't make it an issue for me.  As I see it, my opinions are my opinions and the opinions of others are theirs.  The opinion of the deciding individual, when a decision is applicable to their life, is the one that should take precedence, IMO.  I can't decide what's "wrong enough" for someone else.

I would hope we can agree that some things are universally "wrong enough" for someone else.

When it comes to actions, yes.  When it comes to opinions, I don't see it that way.  

[AGB]

Dec 21, 2013 14:40:54 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 21, 2013 14:35:54 GMT -5 AGB said:

I would hope we can agree that some things are universally "wrong enough" for someone else.

When it comes to actions, yes.  When it comes to opinions, I don't see it that way.  

Makes sense. Prostitution is an action though.

[mmhmm]

Prostitution, the way it was being discussed here, is a profession, AGB.  The duties of said profession are actions.  The decision of an individual as to whether, or not, those duties are "wrong enough" to preclude that individual from choosing that particular profession is not mine to make.  Again, YMMV.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I live in Canada. I've been trying to search down a video of the broadcast that was aired here yesterday, but this one's close.

Yes, the laws were changed mainly in an effort to protect the women in the trade. There's more to it than that, but that's the gist of the ruling.

You might get more info on the ruling from this link:

link

[AGB]

Dec 21, 2013 14:55:22 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Prostitution, the way it was being discussed here, is a profession, AGB.  The duties of said profession are actions.  The decision of an individual as to whether, or not, those duties are "wrong enough" to preclude that individual from choosing that particular profession is not mine to make.  Again, YMMV.

I meant in context of deciding the legality of prostitution. We can certainly decide what is "wrong enough" for someone else, we do it all the time.

[mmhmm]

Dec 21, 2013 15:06:27 GMT -5 AGB said:

Dec 21, 2013 14:55:22 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Prostitution, the way it was being discussed here, is a profession, AGB.  The duties of said profession are actions.  The decision of an individual as to whether, or not, those duties are "wrong enough" to preclude that individual from choosing that particular profession is not mine to make.  Again, YMMV.

I meant in context of deciding the legality of prostitution. We can certainly decide what is "wrong enough" for someone else, we do it all the time.

You may decide what is "wrong enough" for someone else, AGB.  I do not.  In matters where all concerned parties are consenting, and eligible to consent, I leave it to them to decide what's right for them, or wrong for them.  Things like murder, theft, assault, battery, and other crimes that are perpetrated upon an individual without that individual's consent are covered by our laws.  Those are things I would consider absolutes in the realm of "wrong enough".

[billisonboard]

Dec 21, 2013 11:57:33 GMT -5 AGB said:

... Would you be okay with your daughter becoming a prostitute or your son marrying one? I'm not asking if you would respect their choices, but what your honest gut reaction would be when you learned of those decisions.

There are certainly some serious questions to be asked. Are we talking street walker or high priced call girl? Selective clientele or just any john? Is she taking proper precautions for the risk of abuse and/or disease? What rates is she charging? Is she able to save adequately for when she is no longer marketable? I would hate for my little girl to be selling herself short or taking major risks.

[AGB]

Dec 21, 2013 15:18:45 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 21, 2013 15:06:27 GMT -5 AGB said:

I meant in context of deciding the legality of prostitution. We can certainly decide what is "wrong enough" for someone else, we do it all the time.

You may decide what is "wrong enough" for someone else, AGB.  I do not.  In matters where all concerned parties are consenting, and eligible to consent, I leave it to them to decide what's right for them, or wrong for them.  Things like murder, theft, assault, battery, and other crimes that are perpetrated upon an individual without that individual's consent are covered by our laws.  Those are things I would consider absolutes in the realm of "wrong enough".

Then you do decide what it ""wrong enough" for someone else, as long as there is a lack of consent.

Are you in favor of legalizing all victimless crimes?

[AGB]

Dec 21, 2013 15:20:02 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 21, 2013 11:57:33 GMT -5 AGB said:

... Would you be okay with your daughter becoming a prostitute or your son marrying one? I'm not asking if you would respect their choices, but what your honest gut reaction would be when you learned of those decisions.

There are certainly some serious questions to be asked. Are we talking street walker or high priced call girl? Selective clientele or just any john? Is she taking proper precautions for the risk of abuse and/or disease? What rates is she charging? Is she able to save adequately for when she is no longer marketable? I would hate for my little girl to be selling herself short or taking major risks.

What would you be okay with?

[mmhmm]

Dec 21, 2013 15:29:21 GMT -5 AGB said:

Dec 21, 2013 15:18:45 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

You may decide what is "wrong enough" for someone else, AGB.  I do not.  In matters where all concerned parties are consenting, and eligible to consent, I leave it to them to decide what's right for them, or wrong for them.  Things like murder, theft, assault, battery, and other crimes that are perpetrated upon an individual without that individual's consent are covered by our laws.  Those are things I would consider absolutes in the realm of "wrong enough".

Then you do decide what it ""wrong enough" for someone else, as long as there is a lack of consent.

Are you in favor of legalizing all victimless crimes?

Pretty much, yes.  There are a lot of victimless crimes, though.  I'd have to give it some thought to see if there were any I thought might cross the line.

[AGB]

Dec 21, 2013 15:38:40 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 21, 2013 15:29:21 GMT -5 AGB said:

Then you do decide what it ""wrong enough" for someone else, as long as there is a lack of consent.

Are you in favor of legalizing all victimless crimes?

Pretty much, yes.  There are a lot of victimless crimes, though.  I'd have to give it some thought to see if there were any I thought might cross the line.

It wasn't meant as a "gotcha" question. There will always be exceptions that prove the rule, I would not expect your thoughts on victimless crime in general to be any different. I am trying to understand your point of view, nothing more.

[mmhmm]

Dec 21, 2013 15:41:08 GMT -5 AGB said:

Dec 21, 2013 15:38:40 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Pretty much, yes.  There are a lot of victimless crimes, though.  I'd have to give it some thought to see if there were any I thought might cross the line.

It wasn't meant as a "gotcha" question. There will always be exceptions that prove the rule, I would not expect your thoughts on victimless crime in general to be any different. I am trying to understand your point of view, nothing more.

I didn't take it that way, AGB.  If I had, I wouldn't be engaging you.  While I do not favor victimless crimes, in general, being made illegal, there are always exceptions.   I named a few. Most involve harm/imminent harm to an innocent individual/entity.  I tend to view things individually rather than as a whole.  It's why I'm basically apolitical and, sometimes, difficult to understand.

[billisonboard]

Dec 21, 2013 15:33:26 GMT -5 AGB said:

Dec 21, 2013 15:20:02 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

There are certainly some serious questions to be asked. Are we talking street walker or high priced call girl? Selective clientele or just any john? Is she taking proper precautions for the risk of abuse and/or disease? What rates is she charging? Is she able to save adequately for when she is no longer marketable? I would hate for my little girl to be selling herself short or taking major risks.

What would you be okay with?

Not selling herself short and not taking major risks. With her grace, looks, and body she should be good for no than $1000 a night and that would be after being on the arm of a man in a tuxedo at a high class event for the evening.