Kill 4 people- no problem if your family is wealthy

[billisonboard]

Dec 29, 2013 2:23:54 GMT -5 grits said:

... If you sue the parents, you are going to have to prove negligence on their part for him taking the truck without permission, stealing beer, and driving. ...

I would work to prove negligence in parenting.

[EVT1]

Dec 29, 2013 2:23:54 GMT -5 grits said:

Dec 29, 2013 1:39:11 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Ummm- what lawsuit limits are those?  I think you might be confused on this.

The only caps on torts I am aware of only apply to municipalities, and maybe for punitive damages.  There may be caps on pain and suffering, etc. in medical malpractice,  workers comp cases, or maybe some others.  But- suing an individual or business is not limited when it comes to actual damages anywhere I am aware of.  (Of course you never know in places like FL or TX)  They will be paying plenty.

Maybe, maybe not. A jury will decide the dollar amount. A judge can still be a goober like this one, and reduce the award.

If you sue the parents, you are going to have to prove negligence on their part for him taking the truck without permission, stealing beer, and driving. You can bet it is going to be a circus in that court room. If they can get that high powered a lawyer to get this punk off, they'll get an even better one to protect their wealth. If he has a trust fund, they can go after it.  Good luck parents of Ron Goldman.

Will have to look but I thought this was a vehicle registered to the business that he had permission to operate- hence suing the business.  A judge isn't going to reduce anything as far as actual damages.

[thyme4change]

Dec 29, 2013 2:23:54 GMT -5 grits said:

Dec 29, 2013 1:39:11 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Ummm- what lawsuit limits are those?  I think you might be confused on this.

The only caps on torts I am aware of only apply to municipalities, and maybe for punitive damages.  There may be caps on pain and suffering, etc. in medical malpractice,  workers comp cases, or maybe some others.  But- suing an individual or business is not limited when it comes to actual damages anywhere I am aware of.  (Of course you never know in places like FL or TX)  They will be paying plenty.

Maybe, maybe not. A jury will decide the dollar amount. A judge can still be a goober like this one, and reduce the award.

If you sue the parents, you are going to have to prove negligence on their part for him taking the truck without permission, stealing beer, and driving. You can bet it is going to be a circus in that court room. If they can get that high powered a lawyer to get this punk off, they'll get an even better one to protect their wealth. If he has a trust fund, they can go after it.  Good luck parents of Ron Goldman.

Wasn't the decision from the criminal court basically saying exactly that - the parents were negligent.  We already have a court certified opinion that bad parenting were the reason for this crime.  I was thinking that the judge made that call specifically to increase the financial liability of the parents in the situation.  The criminal decision is admissible in civil lawsuits.

[grits]

Many are seeing things from how they think it will operate. Different states have different laws. A jury can decide this, and determine how much they want to award. A judge can change the award if they so choose. It can even be appealed all the way to the state Supreme Court.  It wouldn't be the first time that a large judgement was reduced by an appellate court.  This is just one of those times that we have to wait, and see what happens.

[EVT1]

Judges do not change awards without a valid reason- and 'we are rich and would like to pay less' isn't one of them.  As long as the award is reasonable and supported by the evidence it isn't getting changed. 

Regardless, the parents are obviously on the hook for negligent entrustment- they were letting the kid drink, and letting him drive their vehicles under age.  He had prior incidents.  He had free reign to do whatever.  So they will pay- but you are right they will have some really good lawyers dragging this shit out for a long time.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Authorities said the teen and friends were seen on surveillance video stealing two cases of beer from a store. He had seven passengers in his Ford F-350, was speeding and had a blood-alcohol level three times the legal limit, according to testimony during the trial.

Boyd said the programs available in the Texas juvenile justice system may not provide the kind of intensive therapy the teen could receive at a rehabilitation center near Newport Beach, Calif., that was suggested by his defense attorneys. The parents would pick up the tab for the center, which runs more than $450,000 a year for treatment

Yup, he was underage, DUI, and committed manslaughter. Since mommy & daddy are loaded, he'll probably get sent to one of those "Hotel Hilton" type rehabs, then "go through the motions" of the program, and still not have learned anything from his stupidity - or paid a penalty - like incarceration which would have driven home (pardon the pun) the seriousness of his actions. I doubt any lesson will be taught if that's his "sentence".

I guess mommy & daddy will also be "taking care of" any lawsuits that come from this. Hopefully they get hit hard in the pocketbook - since they seem to think they can buy their way out of a serious incident.

[grits]

Dec 29, 2013 13:09:19 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Dec 29, 2013 2:23:54 GMT -5 grits said:

Maybe, maybe not. A jury will decide the dollar amount. A judge can still be a goober like this one, and reduce the award.

If you sue the parents, you are going to have to prove negligence on their part for him taking the truck without permission, stealing beer, and driving. You can bet it is going to be a circus in that court room. If they can get that high powered a lawyer to get this punk off, they'll get an even better one to protect their wealth. If he has a trust fund, they can go after it.  Good luck parents of Ron Goldman.

Will have to look but I thought this was a vehicle registered to the business that he had permission to operate- hence suing the business.  A judge isn't going to reduce anything as far as actual damages.

Maybe, maybe not.  I have seen it happen more than once.  If you don't live in Texas, you haven't seen the crazy things that can happen in their courts.  State district judges are elected.  Anything can happen.

[grits]

Dec 29, 2013 19:34:55 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Judges do not change awards without a valid reason- and 'we are rich and would like to pay less' isn't one of them.  As long as the award is reasonable and supported by the evidence it isn't getting changed. 

Regardless, the parents are obviously on the hook for negligent entrustment- they were letting the kid drink, and letting him drive their vehicles under age.  He had prior incidents.  He had free reign to do whatever.  So they will pay- but you are right they will have some really good lawyers dragging this shit out for a long time.

As I said in another post, if you don't live in Texas, you haven't seen the crazy things that can happen in their courts. I have seen adults with multiple DUI's kill several people while driving drunk, and get minimal prison time.  We are talking less than 5 years here. One JP had a whole list of DUI's, had wrecks injuring other people, and stayed on the bench.

The key to your statement is the reward is reasonable.  It is one of the main reasons judges here reduce awards.   

If they want a good chance of getting a big settlement they should try to sue in Jefferson County. It is where India sued Union Carbide.

[EVT1]

Dec 29, 2013 20:46:09 GMT -5 grits said:

Dec 29, 2013 19:34:55 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Judges do not change awards without a valid reason- and 'we are rich and would like to pay less' isn't one of them.  As long as the award is reasonable and supported by the evidence it isn't getting changed. 

Regardless, the parents are obviously on the hook for negligent entrustment- they were letting the kid drink, and letting him drive their vehicles under age.  He had prior incidents.  He had free reign to do whatever.  So they will pay- but you are right they will have some really good lawyers dragging this shit out for a long time.

As I said in another post, if you don't live in Texas, you haven't seen the crazy things that can happen in their courts. I have seen adults with multiple DUI's kill several people while driving drunk, and get minimal prison time.  We are talking less than 5 years here. One JP had a whole list of DUI's, had wrecks injuring other people, and stayed on the bench.

The key to your statement is the reward is reasonable.  It is one of the main reasons judges here reduce awards.   

If they want a good chance of getting a big settlement they should try to sue in Jefferson County. It is where India sued Union Carbide.

I think you are getting mixed up with punitive damages. When it comes to actual damages it is a done deal, and for the rest of compensatory damages the only play in it is with nebulous amounts such as pain and suffering.

Also, inadequate damages can be appealed if a judge disturbs a jury decision.

Do take in mind this is a juvenile case- and the idea is to save the kid and not discard them for life. What my problem is, is that there are plenty of people in that system that did far less doing time. That kid should be in jail until 18 at a minimum.

[sesfw]

Now that Christmas is over but the New Year is still to be, has anyone heard any more about this case? Did mommy and daddy give sonny-boy the best Christmas ever? I'm assuming sonny-boy hasn't spent any time in juvie jail.

When is his next scheduled court appearance?  I suppose high priced lawyers will do their best to keep the child out of court.  No sense in allowing the child to see the families of the people he killed and injured.

[grits]

Dec 30, 2013 0:46:11 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Dec 29, 2013 20:46:09 GMT -5 grits said:

As I said in another post, if you don't live in Texas, you haven't seen the crazy things that can happen in their courts. I have seen adults with multiple DUI's kill several people while driving drunk, and get minimal prison time.  We are talking less than 5 years here. One JP had a whole list of DUI's, had wrecks injuring other people, and stayed on the bench.

The key to your statement is the reward is reasonable.  It is one of the main reasons judges here reduce awards.   

If they want a good chance of getting a big settlement they should try to sue in Jefferson County. It is where India sued Union Carbide.

I think you are getting mixed up with punitive damages. When it comes to actual damages it is a done deal, and for the rest of compensatory damages the only play in it is with nebulous amounts such as pain and suffering.

Also, inadequate damages can be appealed if a judge disturbs a jury decision.

Do take in mind this is a juvenile case- and the idea is to save the kid and not discard them for life. What my problem is, is that there are plenty of people in that system that did far less doing time. That kid should be in jail until 18 at a minimum.

I think you are not at all grasping what I said about anything can happen in Texas.  Unless you live here, you can't begin to grasp it.  I know a lot of people think they know everything about other states, and how they operate but if you don't live here, you don't know. 

I still say sue in Jefferson County.  You stand a much better chance of getting a really big award. 

[EVT1]

No I get it- the fact the kid got probation exactly demonstrates your point.  I am just going by what I was taught when it comes to torts and remedies- granted TX law was not the focus.  I am familiar with forum shopping and you are 100% correct that when the option presents itself you take it.

My point was that even a shitty judge that for whatever reason would want to help out the rich folks, can only deviate so much and survive appeal.

[thyme4change]

Meh - who knows - maybe he will become a tax paying citizen.  He will probably be handed the family business when he gets out of rehab.  He can drive it into the ground - but that will be a couple decades from now, so whatever.

[EVT1]

He might- that's the hope.  The family business on the other hand will file BK as soon as a judgment is rendered.  BK is a great tool to avoid paying people you owe- just ask Trump- he is the master of not paying what he owes.

The only thing about this case that is good for the victims is that some well funded lawyers smelled the blood in the water and can afford to fight.  They will need them.  Any rich douche that can afford half a million dollars to let their kid learn cooking and how to ride a horse in leiu of jail can afford to fight paying for the carnage.  Meanwhile the paralyzed kid will get shit for the next 5 years while these scumbags abuse the legal $ystem.

[thyme4change]

Dec 31, 2013 4:14:54 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

He might- that's the hope.  The family business on the other hand will file BK as soon as a judgment is rendered.  BK is a great tool to avoid paying people you owe- just ask Trump- he is the master of not paying what he owes.

The only thing about this case that is good for the victims is that some well funded lawyers smelled the blood in the water and can afford to fight.  They will need them.  Any rich douche that can afford half a million dollars to let their kid learn cooking and how to ride a horse in leiu of jail can afford to fight paying for the carnage.  Meanwhile the paralyzed kid will get shit for the next 5 years while these scumbags abuse the legal $ystem.

Many legal liens are not dismissable in bankruptcy.  I don't know if that is true for businesses, but true for personal.  You can't DUI, kill someone, have them sue you, and then declare BK and get released from the payment.  I will ask my friendly resident bankruptcy expert about business filings.

[Deleted]

FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) - A judge on Wednesday ordered a Texas teenager who was sentenced to 10 years' probation in a drunken-driving crash that killed four people to go to a rehabilitation facility paid for by his parents.

Judge Jean Boyd again decided to give no jail time for Ethan Couch, defense attorney Reagan Wynn and prosecutors told reporters after the hearing, which was closed to the public. Prosecutors had asked Boyd to sentence him to 20 years in state custody on charges related to two people who were severely injured.

The sentence stirred fierce debate, as has the testimony of a defense expert who says Couch's wealthy parents coddled him into a sense of irresponsibility. The expert termed the condition "affluenza."
Wynn and prosecutor Richard Alpert would not identify the facility where Couch will go or where it is located. The teen's family previously had offered to pay for Couch to go to a $450,000-a-year rehabilitation center near Newport Beach, Calif.

Couch, who's currently in state custody, is expected to receive alcohol and drug rehab, and could face prison time if he runs away from the facility or violates any other terms of his probation, Alpert said.

There is no minimum amount of time Couch must spend in the facility before his release, prosecutor Riley Shaw said.

Wynn ripped the media and the public's focus on "affluenza" and said that his client was misunderstood.

He said reporting of the Couch case had "so twisted the facts that were actually presented in court that I don't think the truth will ever be able to come out now."

"It was ridiculous to think that we walked into court and said, 'Oh, this is a rich white kid,' and she decided to probate him," he said.

But Alpert accused Wynn of hypocrisy, pointing out that a defense witness made the comment in the first place.

"His witnesses don't say things by accident," Alpert said. "So they thought maybe that would help - that's my interpretation - and it blew up on them. It was a stupid thing to say."
Couch's parents did not speak to reporters as they entered the courtroom. Several relatives of Couch's victims also attended Wednesday's hearing.

"The families feel like the same way they felt the last time they were here," Alpert said.

Asking Boyd to give Couch jail time for intoxication assault was a last-ditch effort by prosecutors, who have said they have almost no way to appeal the judge's sentence in the case.

Alpert said he hoped the Couch case would lead the Texas Legislature to allow juries to sentence some juvenile defendants. The case has already spurred calls for potential changes. Texas Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst, who serves as president of the Senate, has asked for a study of sentencing guidelines in intoxication manslaughter cases.

But Wynn lauded Boyd for giving Couch probation and recognizing the possibility that he could be reformed better in a rehab facility that in prison.
"We recognize that 16-year-old kids are different from 25-year-old adults," he said.

Couch was 16 at the time of the accident. His blood-alcohol level was three times the legal limit for an adult and there were traces of Valium in his system when he lost control of his pickup truck and plowed into a group of people helping a woman whose car had stalled.

Seven passengers were riding in Couch's truck. One, Sergio Molina, is paralyzed and can communicate only by blinking. The other, Solimon Mohmand, suffered numerous broken bones and internal injuries.

www.aol.com/article/2014/02/06/judge-orders-no-jail-for-ethan-couch-teen-in-fatal-car-wreck/20824488/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl11%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D439614

update on case

no jail time

[billisonboard]

...

But Wynn lauded Boyd for giving Couch probation and recognizing the possibility that he could be reformed better in a rehab facility that in prison.
"We recognize that 16-year-old kids are different from 25-year-old adults," he said.
...

... After years of prostitution and sexual abuse, when she was 16, Kruzan snapped: She killed GG, was arrested and convicted of first-degree murder. Despite attempts by her lawyer to have her sentenced as a juvenile, the judge described her crime as "well thought-out" and sentenced her to life without parole. ...
www.alternet.org/story/143635/16-year_old_got_life_without_parole_for_killing_her_abusive_pimp_--_should_teens_be_condemned_to_die_in_jail

Wonder if the judge would have found her a good candidate for rehab also?

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2014 17:10:27 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

...

But Wynn lauded Boyd for giving Couch probation and recognizing the possibility that he could be reformed better in a rehab facility that in prison.
"We recognize that 16-year-old kids are different from 25-year-old adults," he said.
...

... After years of prostitution and sexual abuse, when she was 16, Kruzan snapped: She killed GG, was arrested and convicted of first-degree murder. Despite attempts by her lawyer to have her sentenced as a juvenile, the judge described her crime as "well thought-out" and sentenced her to life without parole. ...
www.alternet.org/story/143635/16-year_old_got_life_without_parole_for_killing_her_abusive_pimp_--_should_teens_be_condemned_to_die_in_jail

Wonder if the judge would have found her a good candidate for rehab also?

I file these cases under the life isn't fair category. As an aside though, she did just kill him as taking the law into her own hands, which is against the law at a different level than accidentally killing someone.

[billisonboard]

Feb 7, 2014 14:20:44 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

...
I file these cases under the life isn't fair category. As an aside though, she did just kill him which is against the law at a different level than accidentally killing someone.

And on the issue of the aside: Here is link to a story detailing the "accidentally killing of someone" (well actually killing 4 people, paralyzing another, injuring a few more) by a person who was driving 68-70 mph with a blood alcohol level three times the legal limit and attempting to leave the scene.

[mollyanna58]

Couch, who's currently in state custody, is expected to receive alcohol and drug rehab, and could face prison time if he runs away from the facility or violates any other terms of his probation, Alpert said.

What are the odds that Couch won't violate his probation.

[Deleted]

Feb 7, 2014 15:06:40 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 7, 2014 14:20:44 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

...
I file these cases under the life isn't fair category. As an aside though, she did just kill him which is against the law at a different level than accidentally killing someone.

And on the issue of the aside: Here is link to a story detailing the "accidentally killing of someone" (well actually killing 4 people, paralyzing another, injuring a few more) by a person who was driving 68-70 mph with a blood alcohol level three times the legal limit and attempting to leave the scene.

I'm really unhappy with drunk driving and the levels of enforcement in regards to same. I don't know how many times I've read in various media about drunk drivers killing and injuring people after they've already been arrested several times and let go with a slap on the wrist or less. I'm one of the victims with a permanent spine injury from 30 years ago. My (thankfully large) car was broadsided by a 60 year old drunk driver who was already arrested 3 times for drunk driving. I just feel that a 16 year old kid that was not brought up with a realistic set of values and made a horrible mistake, should not pay for the sins of his parents on his first offense. It may not seem right at face value for the information we have, but it's how I feel right now. Send him to a quality rehabilitation clinic and if it happens again then put him away.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 7, 2014 15:16:21 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Couch, who's currently in state custody, is expected to receive alcohol and drug rehab, and could face prison time if he runs away from the facility or violates any other terms of his probation, Alpert said.

What are the odds that Couch won't violate his probation.

Mom and dad (under the influence of alcohol (of course)) would kill him if he did.

[billisonboard]

Feb 7, 2014 16:25:43 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

... I just feel that a 16 year old kid that was not brought up with a realistic set of values and made a horrible mistake, should not pay for the sins of his parents on his first offense. ...

Getting involved with an abusive pimp was Kurzan's horrible mistake that she is paying for with a life sentence without parole. I disagree with the double standard that is evidenced by this case.

[Deleted]

Feb 7, 2014 16:44:35 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 7, 2014 16:25:43 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

... I just feel that a 16 year old kid that was not brought up with a realistic set of values and made a horrible mistake, should not pay for the sins of his parents on his first offense. ...

Getting involved with an abusive pimp was Kurzan's horrible mistake that she is paying for with a life sentence without parole. I disagree with the double standard that is evidenced by this case.

So do I, but the law isn't always fair in all cases, but has to be followed in criminal court. Getting involved, was a horrible mistake. Killing him was a much worse one and I refuse to mix the two.

[Tennesseer]

At least the Tennessee child support magistrate, who changed a baby's first name from Messiah to Martin because the magistrate believed the name Messiah was a title and only one person who has ever lived was worthy of same, was fired.

The magistrate "still faces a March 3 hearing on accusations that her order to change the baby's name violated Tennessee’s Code of Judicial Conduct. Among other things, the code requires judges to perform all duties without bias or prejudice based on religion."

Now to disbar the Montana judge who suspended all but 31 days of a man's 14 year sentence for raping a 14-year-old girl who later committed suicide as a result.  The judge also stated the under age girl was partly at fault for the rape because she was "probably as much in control of the situation as was the defendant."