henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Feb 19, 2011 21:04:28 GMT -5
On the floor of the House of Representatives . . .strike that . . .In a letter to his constitutients back home, , , , newbie Congressman Allen West delivered a salvo at the Democrats and president Obama about spending money the country does not have, and worse, , , may neve have........... "....... “Over this past week I have watched and listened to members of the House of Representatives from across the aisle. “I am appalled at their ignorance, belligerence, and dishonest rhetoric filled with empty emotional platitudes. Have they no shame in realizing that their inept, incompetent failures are the reason why we are debating this continuing resolution. They failed to pass a budget during the 111th Congress. “Have they no honor in realizing that their fiscal irresponsibility over the past four years has resulted in our standing on the precipice of a fiscal canyon from which we may not recover. “Also troubling are the events in the state of Wisconsin which mirror those that happened in Greece several months ago. We are witnessing the abject hostility of a unionized entitlement class that is being lauded by the liberal left, seemingly to include our President. “It is such a critical time for our Republic, yet there seems no visionary leadership — it is as if America stopped producing adults. I have never seen a greater assembly of petulance and sophomoric behavior as what I have witnessed this week on the floor of the House of Representatives. “To those across the aisle, please explain to the American people how your economic policies have created a better environment for long-term sustainable growth. “This debate is about jobs and the economy. “It begins with remedying the spending problem on Capitol Hill. It includes tackling the burdensome taxation and regulation policies strangling our country. It is the understanding that Keynesian tax and spend policies did not grow America’s economy, but the indomitable, entrepreneurial spirit of the American people. “Government sets the conditions for job and economic growth, it does not create jobs. “I am pleased that we are having open debate in the peoples’ house. However, there is clearly something lacking in this discourse — the recognition of the failure of the bureaucratic nanny-state liberal policies. “Rest assured that I will do everything in my ability to stand firm and lead on the principles that make America exceptional.” Read it at: www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/AllenWest-Wisconsin-president/2011/02/18/id/386650?s=al&promo_code=BB57-1
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Feb 19, 2011 21:12:51 GMT -5
“Government sets the conditions for job and economic growth, it does not create jobs.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 19, 2011 21:31:40 GMT -5
On the floor of the House of Representatives . . .strike that . . .In a letter to his constitutients back home, , , , newbie Congressman Allen West delivered a salvo at the Democrats and president Obama about spending money the country does not have, and worse, , , may neve have........... "....... “Over this past week I have watched and listened to members of the House of Representatives from across the aisle. “I am appalled at their ignorance, belligerence, and dishonest rhetoric filled with empty emotional platitudes. Have they no shame in realizing that their inept, incompetent failures are the reason why we are debating this continuing resolution. They failed to pass a budget during the 111th Congress. “Have they no honor in realizing that their fiscal irresponsibility over the past four years has resulted in our standing on the precipice of a fiscal canyon from which we may not recover. “Also troubling are the events in the state of Wisconsin which mirror those that happened in Greece several months ago. We are witnessing the abject hostility of a unionized entitlement class that is being lauded by the liberal left, seemingly to include our President. “It is such a critical time for our Republic, yet there seems no visionary leadership — it is as if America stopped producing adults. I have never seen a greater assembly of petulance and sophomoric behavior as what I have witnessed this week on the floor of the House of Representatives. “To those across the aisle, please explain to the American people how your economic policies have created a better environment for long-term sustainable growth. “This debate is about jobs and the economy. “It begins with remedying the spending problem on Capitol Hill. It includes tackling the burdensome taxation and regulation policies strangling our country. It is the understanding that Keynesian tax and spend policies did not grow America’s economy, but the indomitable, entrepreneurial spirit of the American people. “Government sets the conditions for job and economic growth, it does not create jobs. “I am pleased that we are having open debate in the peoples’ house. However, there is clearly something lacking in this discourse — the recognition of the failure of the bureaucratic nanny-state liberal policies. “Rest assured that I will do everything in my ability to stand firm and lead on the principles that make America exceptional.” Read it at: www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/AllenWest-Wisconsin-president/2011/02/18/id/386650?s=al&promo_code=BB57-1I have heard him speak..followed his campaign, not my representative, have many questions but am letting him get his feet wet, but will say this. Depending on his letter back home to his constituents...it is not a safe Republican seat, there are a lot of elderly folks there. There are a lot of Democrats there. They will be looking for more then Democratic bashing and building up of Israeli relations with the US. I believe he will be interested in a run at the Senate shortly, my prediction, if not 2012, definitely the next go around. 2012 , depends on how Obama is doing, who the Pubs put up. This is not a guy who is going to look to be a 20 plus year Representative from this or possible any district , but especial this one.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Feb 19, 2011 21:52:07 GMT -5
You are right about the Democrats in his district. It has been a benchmark Democratic district since so far back the pages on the calendar have turned yellow with age.
What his future holds is anybody's guess, so I'm not going there. And I really don't think he is either. Not yet, anyway. If for no other reason than that he does not exhibit the teflon skin of the "good old boy" network. Right now I think he is concerned with the current state of the country, and willing to be measured by how he fields his responsibility within that framework.
I'd say sending such a "message" back home to his district as he did, with all those registered Democratic voters is plain enough. . . . Either they will appreciate his work or they will tell him to cool it.
What do you suppose he'll do if they tell him to cool it? I personally think he'll exhibit some tough love for his constitutients and continue the march. It will be out of character for him to do otherwise.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 19, 2011 22:04:17 GMT -5
You are right about the Democrats in his district. It has been a benchmark Democratic district since so far back the pages on the calendar have turned yellow with age. What his future holds is anybody's guess, so I'm not going there. And I really don't think he is either. Not yet, anyway. If for no other reason than that he does not exhibit the teflon skin of the "good old boy" network. Right now I think he is concerned with the current state of the country, and willing to be measured by how he fields his responsibility within that framework. I'd say sending such a "message" back home to his district as he did, with all those registered Democratic voters is plain enough. . . . Either they will appreciate his work or they will tell him to cool it. What do you suppose he'll do if they tell him to cool it? I personally think he'll exhibit some tough love for his constitutients and continue the march. It will be out of character for him to do otherwise. He was elected campaigning much like the letter. He needs to stay true to that and the people of the district will have the opportunity every two years (as he chooses to run) to continue to determine whether they wish him to represent them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2011 22:12:00 GMT -5
geez-- am I brain dead or what?? LOL!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2011 22:17:40 GMT -5
From reading one story to another.... I think Allen West is right up there with Marco Rubio-- newcomers that will go far. Aren't they both Florida? Something in the water over there?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 19, 2011 22:46:01 GMT -5
You are right about the Democrats in his district. It has been a benchmark Democratic district since so far back the pages on the calendar have turned yellow with age. What his future holds is anybody's guess, so I'm not going there. And I really don't think he is either. Not yet, anyway. If for no other reason than that he does not exhibit the teflon skin of the "good old boy" network. Right now I think he is concerned with the current state of the country, and willing to be measured by how he fields his responsibility within that framework. I'd say sending such a "message" back home to his district as he did, with all those registered Democratic voters is plain enough. . . . Either they will appreciate his work or they will tell him to cool it. What do you suppose he'll do if they tell him to cool it? I personally think he'll exhibit some tough love for his constitutients and continue the march. It will be out of character for him to do otherwise. Henry, if he considers doing that, {I don't think he is a idiot , and he knows how to control himself, the Military does not tolerate maveracks } he better get some advice from a good political advisor. He has to face his constituents in less then two years, he needs this exposure. To blow them, his constituents , away, he's out of there then where does he go? Possible fight his own party for a Senate seat? Not even shore the Senate set up here, if you can believe that, will have to google, I am emabarressed. Be right back. Bill Nelson , up for election 2012..Democrate, Rubio is a Republican, he's safe now. He could go for Nelsons seat...wins , he's in...other wise he will have to wait a while and Rubio , a Republican ...mmmm , I am thinking he will shoot the wad and go for Nelsons seat in 2012. Loses , in two years, runs for his old house seat again, unless there is a Republican there , then a primary battle. mmmm aint politics grand? ;D
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 20, 2011 0:03:08 GMT -5
...and he knows how to control himself, the Military does not tolerate maveracks... When West testified that he had "no malice toward Hamoody" and that he "just wanted information," Pezytulska presented a document of West's typed statement following the August incident. She asked him to read his own written words to the court: "In my anger, I couldn't remember how many shots were fired." www.cnn.com/2003/US/12/12/sprj.nirq.west.ruling/index.html
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 20, 2011 1:21:03 GMT -5
...and he knows how to control himself, the Military does not tolerate maveracks... When West testified that he had "no malice toward Hamoody" and that he "just wanted information," Pezytulska presented a document of West's typed statement following the August incident. She asked him to read his own written words to the court: "In my anger, I couldn't remember how many shots were fired." www.cnn.com/2003/US/12/12/sprj.nirq.west.ruling/index.htmlBills you have made it clear that you feel The Congressman is a loose cannon, as his almost Court Martial on the incident , in your mind , shows him to be. I am not a supporter of the Congressman, I have followed his career, I have gone and heard him speak. I have some questions, but I am willing to lets see what do we have here before casting a final so called judgment on him as a political person. However , on his military service , you keep bringing up and posting out of context statements like above. This is not another Lt Calle. You should be honest enough to look at his whole career body of work . He rose to a high rank, Lt Col, which means he had to be be recommended by superior officers to continue to advance to this level , not passed over, and judging by his age , record, up to this time there is a good chance he may have continued to rise in rank and responsibility. While all branches of the military deserve and have talented people, officers, the Colonial was in a combat branch that takes a special kind of leader ship , which he seems to have performed above and beyond besides showing personal bravery for valor in facing the enemy. As a realist of other factors , I also have to point out that the Congressman is a African American and yes that does enter into the picture. To rise to the level he did, he had to be faced with the prejudices of the times , they are there with out a doubt and this man was not a ring knocker {West point}, WP protective society was not at work protecting him, it is a fact and he didn't qualify. He was from the reserves and made it to the RA and that is not a easy accomplishment. The incident of a full court martial was brought to the Col three days before he would have been qualified to retire with a full pension, after 23 years service. The General who pushed this took the advice of a low ranking JAG and It was only a letter and media campaign of the injustice of his actions, calling for the court that it was rescinded and the COL was allowed to resign and receive his richly rewarded retirement. Again, the court was brought THREE days before he was weligible for retirenment, think about that doe a minute. It's just not done. That was three days before retirement. As officers in theater said, off the record, {have to watch out for that general he could get nasty} he could have let the Col slip through the three days, send him home with a letter of recrimination instead of putting him and the Army thorough this crap. He did anyway, AFTER the S hit the fan, but not before he put west through hell and embarrssed the Army. As far as the incident. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- U.S. officer fined for harsh interrogation tactics INTERROGATION Share this on:Mixx Facebook Twitter Digg delicious reddit MySpace StumbleUpon LinkedIn December 13, 2003 The commanding general of the 4th Infantry Division on Friday accepted a U.S. military investigator's recommendation and ordered administrative action against Lt. Col. Allen West, who was accused of using improper methods to force information out of an Iraqi detainee. Following a military hearing, West was fined $5,000 over two months, according to West's civillian attorney, Neal Puckett. The punishment does not affect West's eligibility for retirement and pension, Puckett said in a statement. West, 42, will be assigned to the rear detachment of the 4th Infantry Division awaiting the processing of his retirement request, the statement said. Maj. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the 4th Infantry's top general in Tikrit, could have rejected the recommendation and ordered a court martial. If he were to be found guilty at a court martial of the two articles against him, West could have faced 11 years in prison, a military prosecutor told CNN. The case stems from an incident August 20 at a military base in Taji, just north of Baghdad, when West was interrogating an Iraqi policeman, who was believed to have information about a plot to assassinate West with an ambush on a U.S. convoy. In testimony at an Article 32 hearing -- the military's version of a grand jury or preliminary hearing -- West said the policeman, Yahya Jhrodi Hamoody, was not cooperating with interrogators, so he watched four of his soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion beat the detainee on the head and body. West said he also threatened to kill Hamoody. Military prosecutors say West followed up on that threat by taking the suspect outside, put him on the ground near a weapons clearing barrel and fired his 9 mm pistol into the barrel. Apparently not knowing where West's gun was aimed, Hamoody cracked and gave information about the planned ambush on West's convoy, thwarting the attack. West said there were no further ambushes on U.S. forces in Taji until he was relieved of his leadership post on October 4. "I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers," West testified to a military courtroom of observers and some teary-eyed troops formerly under his command. Asked if he would have act differently if under similar circumstances again, West testified, "If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can." Puckett argued that because West is always accompanied by U.S. troops that he acted to save American lives. But while West's supporters call him a hero, military prosecutors said his actions amounted to torture and violated articles 128 and 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Prosecutor Capt. Magdalena Pezytulska said West should be tried for assault and for communicating a threat. "This is a case about a man who lost his temper," she argued. "There are consequences for [West's] actions." When West testified that he had "no malice toward Hamoody" and that he "just wanted information," Pezytulska presented a document of West's typed statement following the August incident. She asked him to read his own written words to the court: "In my anger, I couldn't remember how many shots were fired." After nearly 20 years of military service, West plans to move his family from Texas to Florida, where he said he hopes to start a new life -------------------------------------------------------------- "Prosecutor Capt. Magdalena Pezytulska" I am sure she has never been where the Col or his men have been and never will be. He made a mistake, in a way...Lt. Col's usually don't get that personally involved. I believe I read that he had lost some men from his unit or one associated with his recently in a Ambush. The rumor was that the Ambush was aimed at him and since he travels with troops it was also aimed at them and the type of attacks they were expecting , many times you do not get the "John Wayne " wound in the arm and the nurse gives him a kiss , a bandage and off he goes again. IED's , it kills , takes off limbs, body parts , leaves men vegatables were the day before they were verile and strong.. I know, I see them here at the VA. So he shot into the barrell, supposedly the attacks stopped, though I heard the Iraqui police officer was cleared , however, who knows the whole story on that incident. There was politics in the court martial, that there was politics in the clearing of the Iraqui police officer, why not. You want to watch him for his politics..go to it, I am too, but his military record, to me it reminds me a bit of swift boat / kerry BS..after the fact crap by people who weran't there, have never been and never will.
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Post by ed1066 on Feb 20, 2011 1:23:50 GMT -5
Just a question for the liberals on the board. What do you feel you gain by consistently smearing, criticizing and belittling absolutely every military person in public life? Is it that you just don't like military people, or do you feel they are not good for our country? What is it about soldiers that enrages the left wing so much?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 20, 2011 2:34:47 GMT -5
ed , while I am not a LIBERAL as you consider LIBERALS , I do say I am a middle to the left which I believe in your miind is bordering on the liberal side , and I just reread my thesis above and thought I defended the Congressman, former Col of the US Army very strenuously. I saw no "consistently smearing, criticizing and belittling absolutely every military person in public life? " Even Bills , his feeling is that the Col over reacteed and that calls into question how he would handle possible other seriouse responsibilities if in time he was given them. But there too, no smearing or belittling, possible criticizing but lets face it , the Col is no longer a Col, he is just another lowly new Congressman and is open to all the criticism he can take. It's comes with the territory and I believe the Congressman is aware of that and if he isn't there will be plenty who will remind him as time goes on.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 20, 2011 10:52:40 GMT -5
Just a question for the liberals on the board. What do you feel you gain by consistently smearing, criticizing and belittling absolutely every military person in public life? Is it that you just don't like military people, or do you feel they are not good for our country? What is it about soldiers that enrages the left wing so much? I do not hesitate to praise Capt. Magdalena Pezytulska and all the other military personnel who appropriately dealt with the situation that Lt. Col. West created. dezi... stated: ...but his military record, to me it reminds me a bit of swift boat / kerry BS..after the fact crap by people who weran't there, have never been and never will. The difference is that Kerry and all the military was criticized for the initial actions and the awarding of medals in that case. In this case you have one individual who acted, by his own admission, "in (his) anger) and many people are finding fault with the military for its handing of if.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Feb 20, 2011 12:35:03 GMT -5
His military issue aside, it appears to me that Allen West is aiming to become a lightening rod. I mean, come on. You're a freshman congressman. How about learning how to be an effective representative for your constitutents before you start deliberately drawing national attention with headline grabbing attacks on the opposition party?
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kent
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Post by kent on Feb 20, 2011 12:49:48 GMT -5
[/quote]
West said he also threatened to kill Hamoody. Military prosecutors say West followed up on that threat by taking the suspect outside, put him on the ground near a weapons clearing barrel and fired his 9 mm pistol into the barrel.
Apparently not knowing where West's gun was aimed, Hamoody cracked and gave information about the planned ambush on West's convoy, thwarting the attack.
West said there were no further ambushes on U.S. forces in Taji until he was relieved of his leadership post on October 4.
[/quote]
I have no problem with what he did and I certainly can't "stretch" this into a case of torture - what BS!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2011 14:54:35 GMT -5
Agree, Kent. I love the way some people think war is in some way civilized and polite. They do what they have to do to stay alive and protect each other. So what if he SCARED someone to get valuable info?? It means nothing that the bad guy was cleared. The bad guy Michael Behenna is in prison for killing was cleared, also, and he had ambushed Behenna and killed all of his men a few days before. In THAT case the prosecution withheld evidence that supports Behenna's claim of self-defense. Appeals will be ongoing in that one, and I hope he wins. I could care less if soldiers scare the enemy, or rough them up when they catch them. In the case of Behenna I don't really even care that he killed him. It's not like the enemy we are currently fighting observes any rules of conduct-- so why do we have to baby them?? They know they are safe fighting Americans, because the bleeding hearts among us whose heads they would love to cut off will protect them. Just like the illegals-- they know if they get caught by a rancher in AZ crossing his land they can sue him and win thousands of $$$ for their mental anguish. GEE-- why do people pick on the USA??? Because they can. JMO-- sure to displease some of you, but war is war, it's ugly and bloody and cruel--- not a prime time popcorn movie.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 20, 2011 16:06:08 GMT -5
kent and krickitt, You do realize it was the United States Army that found Lt. Col West's behavior criminal and charged him for it, don't you. Do you realize that it was the United States Army that fined him for his conduct, don't you? Why do you not have respect for the United States Army?
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kent
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Post by kent on Feb 20, 2011 16:31:30 GMT -5
kent and krickitt, You do realize it was the United States Army that found Lt. Col West's behavior criminal and charged him for it, don't you. Do you realize that it was the United States Army that fined him for his conduct, don't you? Why do you not have respect for the United States Army? Bills While I would not normally dignify your comments by responding, I will make an exception in this case. I fully realize it was the Army that charged and fined him. That's not the point. The point is that it's MY opinion that he did nothing wrong and, quite frankly, I wouldn't be the least surprised to learn the Army was "pressured" into making a case out of this for political reasons. War is war my friend and saving our troops is high on the priority list, not catering to a bunch of bleeding hearts. And, for the record, I don't know if you served this country or not but I did so saying I have no respect for the military is BS! End of discussion
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kent
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Post by kent on Feb 20, 2011 16:33:26 GMT -5
Agree, Kent. I love the way some people think war is in some way civilized and polite. They do what they have to do to stay alive and protect each other. So what if he SCARED someone to get valuable info?? It means nothing that the bad guy was cleared. The bad guy Michael Behenna is in prison for killing was cleared, also, and he had ambushed Behenna and killed all of his men a few days before. In THAT case the prosecution withheld evidence that supports Behenna's claim of self-defense. Appeals will be ongoing in that one, and I hope he wins. I could care less if soldiers scare the enemy, or rough them up when they catch them. In the case of Behenna I don't really even care that he killed him. It's not like the enemy we are currently fighting observes any rules of conduct-- so why do we have to baby them?? They know they are safe fighting Americans, because the bleeding hearts among us whose heads they would love to cut off will protect them. Just like the illegals-- they know if they get caught by a rancher in AZ crossing his land they can sue him and win thousands of $$$ for their mental anguish. GEE-- why do people pick on the USA??? Because they can. JMO-- sure to displease some of you, but war is war, it's ugly and bloody and cruel--- not a prime time popcorn movie. Thank you Krickitt
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 20, 2011 16:34:54 GMT -5
Great respect for ,
US Army , finally did get it right. The General in charge , Brig., he is a four star today, did not..
To push for a court, three days before he , West, would have been eligible for retirement, 23 years in, putting him and the Army, military, into a bad situation, embarressing, then relenting , because of media, Congressional pressure, Civilian outcrys from the country and also from serving members quietly and retired and non serving armed forces members, a out pouring of support for the Col. , not from Rumsfeld, President{really don't know about the President, but know about Rumsfeldt, he talked about it, let it run it's course the wimp said}.
If it was that seriouse a breech and had to be prosecuted, he would have been prosecuted, a court would have been held, and since a court at that level IS INFLURNCED by what the Commanding General wants, and in this case to be let off would be a slap in the Vommanding Generals face, he might have been dishonorable discharged and actually sent to Federal Military Prison.
Justice was done, but it was close and only by intervention of support, a very good lawyer was a big time miscarage of justice was averted, sorry Bills, on this one, your wrong.
He had to leave, retire, to embarressing , to open, to political withb the Iraquioo government, Iraqui policeman who was the alleged bomber, but the mitigating cercumstances. The fine , ok, the letter of reprimand in his file , ok, the court..no, the possible imprisonment ..no, the full retirement...also ok.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 20, 2011 18:05:25 GMT -5
Great respect for , US Army , finally did get it right. The General in charge , Brig., he is a four star today, did not.. To push for a court, three days before he , West, would have been eligible for retirement, 23 years in, putting him and the Army, military, into a bad situation, embarressing, then relenting , because of media, Congressional pressure, Civilian outcrys from the country and also from serving members quietly and retired and non serving armed forces members, a out pouring of support for the Col. , not from Rumsfeld, President{really don't know about the President, but know about Rumsfeldt, he talked about it, let it run it's course the wimp said}. If it was that seriouse a breech and had to be prosecuted, he would have been prosecuted, a court would have been held, and since a court at that level IS INFLURNCED by what the Commanding General wants, and in this case to be let off would be a slap in the Vommanding Generals face, he might have been dishonorable discharged and actually sent to Federal Military Prison. Justice was done, but it was close and only by intervention of support, a very good lawyer was a big time miscarage of justice was averted, sorry Bills, on this one, your wrong. He had to leave, retire, to embarressing , to open, to political withb the Iraquioo government, Iraqui policeman who was the alleged bomber, but the mitigating cercumstances. The fine , ok, the letter of reprimand in his file , ok, the court..no, the possible imprisonment ..no, the full retirement...also ok. What did I get wrong? I fully agree that the Army got it right. I fully agree that justice was done. A loose canon was rolled out to pasture.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 20, 2011 18:16:07 GMT -5
Your over doing the loose cannon but having never experienced it..what can I say... a incident to me, to you , insinuating he should be put away in a closet, fed his food through a hole in the door, but the key thrown away.
Politically, he's not my cup of tea, but that is his political side. His service , that was fine, overall , superior, there was a incident, finally, settled properly. Patton slapped a pvt once, viciouse slap I think...he had stars on his shoulders....also a loose cannon? Possible, but Eisenhower and Bradly knew when to roll out the cannon....good for us.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 20, 2011 18:31:48 GMT -5
Your over doing the loose cannon but having never experienced it..what can I say... a incident to me, to you , insinuating he should be put away in a closet, fed his food through a hole in the door, but the key thrown away. Politically, he's not my cup of tea, but that is his political side. His service , that was fine, overall , superior, there was a incident, finally, settled properly. Patton slapped a pvt once, viciouse slap I think...he had stars on his shoulders....also a loose cannon? Possible, but Eisenhower and Bradly knew when to roll out the cannon....good for us. Patton's unreliability was one of the many things that prevented him from being the leader of Operation Overlord. Ambrose's statement above demonstrates the central point of Eisenhower's reasoning. He knew Patton was a successful field commander, but did not know if he was equal to leading of the whole campaign as Bradley. However, Bradley did not feel the same way as Eisenhower did, he stated that, "I [Bradley] would have relieved him instantly and would have nothing more to do with him. He was colorful, but was impetuous… His whole concept of command was opposite to mine. He was primarily a showman. The show always seemed to come first."[68] To Bradley there was no reason to have the behavior of Patton because it hurt the teams more than he helped it. To him the best thing would have been to send him home at once. www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/articles/twogeneral.aspx
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 20, 2011 18:38:58 GMT -5
...insinuating he should be put away in a closet, fed his food through a hole in the door, but the key thrown away. ... Read what I wrote. The exact words that I wrote: What did I get wrong? I fully agree that the Army got it right. I fully agree that justice was done. A loose canon was rolled out to pasture. How the hell is that "insinuating" that the Army should have done anything other than what they did? They encouraged that he retire with full benefits (i.e. rolled him out to pasture) after slapping his hand and giving him a fine for misbehavior.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 20, 2011 18:50:25 GMT -5
... Patton slapped a pvt once, viciouse slap I think...he had stars on his shoulders....also a loose cannon? Possible, but Eisenhower and Bradly knew when to roll out the cannon....good for us. You do realize that in the end, Eisenhower put Patton out to pasture, don't you? Openly critical of Allied occupation policy and believing that the Soviets should be forced back to their borders, Patton was relieved by Eisenhower in November 1945 and assigned to the Fifteenth Army which was tasked with writing the history of the war. militaryhistory.about.com/od/1900s/p/patton.htm
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Feb 20, 2011 19:18:52 GMT -5
Well, we've gone from Allen West to George Patton with the loose cannon call. When are we going to get to MacArthur? He had a little bit to do with the war in the Pacific, didn't he? Seems he carried the tag "Bugout Doug" after he left Bataan to it's fate and secrety scooted, (wife and family in tow), down to Australia. Did he ever send his wife home, or did he keep her handy all during the war?
I believe he had a hand in turning things around in Korea, too. Only to get fired by Truman, (not by his military boss), for being a loose cannon. Seems you still have some ground to cover, bills. Allen West is just chicken feed. Hardly worth your vaunted expertise.
Oh, and I have to stick this BTW in FWIW. Ambrose was ortracized by historians as a plagerist, or did you think no one else knew that?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 20, 2011 19:22:22 GMT -5
Well, we've gone from Allen West to George Patton with the loose cannon call. When are we going to get to MacArthur? He had a little bit to do with the war in the Pacific, didn't he? Seems he carried the tag "Bugout Doug" after he left Bataan to it's fate and secrety scooted, (wife and family in tow), down to Australia. Did he ever send his wife home, or did he keep her handy all during the war? I believe he had a hand in turning things around in Korea, too. Only to get fired by Truman, (not by his military boss), for being a loose cannon. Seems you still have some ground to cover, bills. Allen West is just chicken feed. Hardly worth your vaunted expertise. Oh, and I have to stick this BTW in FWIW. Ambrose was ortracized by historians as a plagerist, or did you think no one else knew that? So if he copied other people's work, does that mean what he said isn't true? Oh, and I have to stick this BTW in FWIW, the Ambrose quote was not included in what I posted. Looks like you have McArthur covered well.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Feb 20, 2011 19:40:48 GMT -5
Looks like libs just can't post enough ad hominem when faced with valid criticism of lib lawmaker tactics. It seems to be their only available retort. Kinda sad, really.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 20, 2011 19:46:52 GMT -5
You remind me of the ex..she always had to get in the last word too If you want to get into it with Patton/ Bradley and Eisenhower we could... " "They encouraged that he retire with full benefits (i.e. rolled him out to pasture) after slapping his hand and giving him a fine for misbehavior" What the Army did was tell Major General Odierno to stop the Court Martial proceeding, there was to much of a stink and embarressing and been going on to long, allow the Col to put in his papers, , put a letter of reprimand into his records, the Col could have fought that , he didn't , probably on advice of council, paid the fine, and retired. Bad incident, possible/possible not ...but a incident that couldn't be overlooked or swept under the table , political problems with the Iraquis, embarressing , one of theirs , a police officer, responsible for IED's, hero possible going to Prison, the cercumstances , Army, wanted it to go away, it did. Loose cannon was my objection...it seems you have a affinity for the word, used many times, like it has caught on to you..a "loose cannon" reaction, would have blown the SOB's head off..problem is then it's hard to get the information on what you are interested in.. here a measured calculated response..drag the SOB out side , make like your going to to blow his head off, fire some rounds , not wildly in the air, they come down, can hurt innocents, but calmly, I would guess screaming obscenities at the SOB , he calmly emptied the 9 mm into a container designed for that purpose, safely discharging the weapon , into the item that one would use when one to do so for testing a weapon. Doesn't sound like a loose cannon to me. Problem was , he didn't have a Non Com smart enough to think of that , do it for him, Lt Col's, just don't activly do those types of things with out causing repercussions. It's in the manuel. Enlisted either , actually , however.......different manuel. Now you want last ..go to it. I'm finished.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 20, 2011 19:51:21 GMT -5
Looks like libs just can't post enough ad hominem when faced with valid criticism of lib lawmaker tactics. It seems to be their only available retort. Kinda sad, really. Fair enough. We need to get serious about solving the problems in this country. Does the letter have any substance or is it just "empty emotional platitudes"?
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