vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 25, 2011 21:31:24 GMT -5
Teaching was one of the only careers available to women in the 50s 60s... it paid crap... Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=3612#ixzz1F1neUN5vI know it is anecdotal - but I have heard more stories than you would believe about some of these women/wonderful teachers - that didn't cash their pay checks - would often have 3 or 4 stuffed in their desk drawer - money was not as big a factor for them as it obviously is now And no - I do not have any sites - these are just stories from people that I am well acquainted with that were their fellow teachers and/or school board members
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 25, 2011 21:31:33 GMT -5
Did the poor teachers not get the poor students in your school? This seemed to be the trend in my school district and many other local school districts in SE PA.
How do you fix the bureaucracy issues in the school system?
Could you not create system of increases that took into account the status of the children in aggregate that came into your class [almost like a measurement of progress]? That way, you're not comparing classes of honor students to those that are amongst the lowest in the grade but pretty much measuring how much those students as a whole has progressed in the last year.
I thought this too until I heard the founder of the Urban Prep school [the link I provided above] speak this week on the radio. They've achieved 100% graduation AND acceptance to a 4 year college, despite many children with difficult home situations.
They've been able to find a way to reach these young men and teach them that personal responsibility trumps any excuse you can come up with about what is going on in your personal life. I was intrigued by the model and what this school was able to achieve [100% HS graduation with 100% acceptance to 4 year schools for 2 straight years for primarily inner city kids - that's pretty impressive].
Isn't it a fact of life that while some will be sympathetic about what is going on in your personal life when you're in the working world, that you will still need to perform and do well to succeed in your career / keep your job / etc? How long can one continue to use the excuse that life dealt them a bad hand of cards? [/size]
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 25, 2011 21:33:50 GMT -5
Did the poor teachers not get the poor students in your school? This seemed to be the trend in my school district and many other local school districts in SE PA. How do you fix the bureaucracy issues in the school system? Could you not create system of increases that took into account the status of the children in aggregate that came into your class [almost like a measurement of progress]? That way, you're not comparing classes of honor students to those that are amongst the lowest in the grade but pretty much measuring how much those students as a whole has progressed in the last year. I thought this too until I heard the founder of the Urban Prep school [the link I provided above] speak this week on the radio. They've achieved 100% graduation AND acceptance to a 4 year college, despite many children with difficult home situations. They've been able to find a way to reach these young men and teach them that personal responsibility trumps any excuse you can come up with about what is going on in your personal life. I was intrigued by the model and what this school was able to achieve [100% HS graduation with 100% acceptance to 4 year schools for 2 straight years for primarily inner city kids - that's pretty impressive]. Isn't it a fact of life that while some will be sympathetic about what is going on in your personal life when you're in the working world, that you will still need to perform and do well to succeed in your career / keep your job / etc? How long can one continue to use the excuse that life dealt them a bad hand of cards? [/size][/quote] Did anyone here watch To Sir With Love?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 21:41:57 GMT -5
1950-60 there were also not special ed kids in your room, or even your school... limited ESL populations, etc. demographics...
Actually, in my experience, if there was not a concentrated effort to spread out the 'problems'... then the better teachers, with a proven track record of having a good raport/impact, are giving most of the problems... doing a better, harder job... but not necessearily making the most 'measurable' progress/achievment as far as being 'on level'...
I did like the school model you showed. I would like to learn more, but can not make any generalizing claims based just on what you provided. I might try to research it more...
You think telling kids to just suck it up... is likely to work? Maybe at a teenager level... but i don't see it being very effective to a elemetnary/middle school child. Hard enough at adolescence...
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 25, 2011 21:55:51 GMT -5
I'm not saying to tell the children to just suck it up. I think it's important that the teachers show compassion. But I also think it's important for teachers to be stern and strong with the children and not give them a free pass simply because they've got such a tough home life. It doesn't do them any favors later in life and likely sets up the underachievement that follows these children for the rest of their years in school.
At what point does it go from underachievement due to tough circumstances at home to underachievement due to teachers year after year letting the child skate by without fully knowing or understanding the material - and not pushing them too much because of the home situation?
The schools in our areas had a special ed teacher / department that took all these children without mixing them into the other classrooms.
Our classes were largely separated by capabilities of students. Although I graduated with over 600 students, I always had my core classes with the same 90 or so [i.e. the top 15%]. I thought this was typical, except in small school settings where it was impossible to have such separation. [/size]
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 22:00:41 GMT -5
It isn't about getting a 'free pass' its about being preoccupied with other problems... its with stress and fear and hunger and poor hygeine impacting learning... its the fact that these days 2-3 hours of homework is not unheard of, from what i hear from parents with kids in school.... and how do you do that well if no one helps you at home? ....
Very few special education classes are total pull out these days... mainstreaming and inclusion are the key models... Least restrictive envrionment is guarenteed under the current law.
I would say most schools probably do not follow a homogenous grouping model, at least until the high school... we have STANDARDIZED expectations now, remember... everyone should pass the same tests...
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 25, 2011 22:24:57 GMT -5
Just saw this. Yes - nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66$2.8k in 1961/2 $10k in 2006/7 Some of the older people on the board claim that the education of the children was superior to the children today. I'm half taking them at face value. What I have noticed, at least from my parents friends, who were largely of the Vo Tech crowd is that schools in the 70's were quick to separate the "trouble" students and send them to vocational schools to finish up their schooling there and gain a usable trade since they weren't "college" material. My one uncle is a carpenter, two of my other uncles are iron workers and my father was a mechanic by trade [not by career]. Perhaps our school model needs to be more accepting that everyone is not college material and it is in their and the country's best interest to teach them something useful and that they can utilize after graduation, like carpentry, plumbing, etc. But schools still have honors and AP classes, don't they? I can see otherwise, that classes could largely be homogeneous but I would think there are these separations still. I mean, I haven't graduated that long ago!! [/size]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 22:34:01 GMT -5
At the high school level, as i said. When i taught middle school, i think around 6th grade they might have started leveling for math class... nothing else...
I'm perfectly fine with offering different tracks and options in school, and i think special ed should be a mix of pull out and inclusion, to best allow for curricular advancement and remediation of skills as necessary...
I would think the $ per student thing would be hard to use... a lot of expendature today is in technology/ and special education, neither of which existed in the 1970s... making a straight comparison difficult... the data also mentions significant changes in how data was gathered/calculated at least twice...
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 25, 2011 22:50:50 GMT -5
At the high school level, as i said. When i taught middle school, i think around 6th grade they might have started leveling for math class... nothing else... I'm perfectly fine with offering different tracks and options in school, and i think special ed should be a mix of pull out and inclusion, to best allow for curricular advancement and remediation of skills as necessary... I would think the $ per student thing would be hard to use... a lot of expendature today is in technology/ and special education, neither of which existed in the 1970s... making a straight comparison difficult... the data also mentions significant changes in how data was gathered/calculated at least twice... times have really changed - I can't even get into this argument - I just remember my aunts teaching experiences - both in a one room school with eight grades and no modern conveniences
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Feb 25, 2011 22:55:09 GMT -5
Our highschool has started a program in parternership with the local community college. Those who prefer technical education versus college preparitory can take a verity of trade training while still taking core highschool classes like math, etc. And still earn a highschool degree which is manditory seeking employement in todays world. It is surprising how many students especially boys who prefer the technical side.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 22:56:26 GMT -5
I like that idea.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 25, 2011 23:03:06 GMT -5
Our highschool has started a program in parternership with the local community college. Those who prefer technical education versus college preparitory can take a verity of trade training while still taking core highschool classes like math, etc. And still earn a highschool degree which is manditory seeking employement in todays world. It is surprising how many students especially boys who prefer the technical side. we have a vocational school about 3 blocks from me - it changes names peroidically, but it services school district from five counties and is awesome - the students spend 1/2 days in their local high schools on core subjects and 1/2 day at the vocational school studying their areas - food service etc., car repair, body shop, welding etc etc etc it seems to be extremely effective here
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Post by marjar on Feb 25, 2011 23:05:58 GMT -5
Yeah... a 15 year professional with a higher degree making 50K with good benefits... that's sure raping the system... Lets not beat around the bush... this is about the undervaluing of teachers, and the conception that teachers make too much money and are somehow not on par with other professionals... Well, fine... teach your own kids... Umm, that's exactly what teachers say when shown the poor results of our education system. When students so well it's ALL about the teachers! When students do poorly it's ALL about every other factor EXCEPT teachers. Well, we're not buying their bs anymore. Since the inception of public teacher unions the quality of education has shot progressively downwards...it's not a coincidence. Yep, which is why the right to work states have among the lowest SAT scores.
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