New York City Council raises smoking age to 21

[Tennesseer]

I am exagerating here a bit, but it looks like one almost has to have a six figure income to buy a pack/carton of Marlboro Reds in New York. I can say the price for a pack of Marlboro Reds in Tennessee is pretty much what I used to pay for them several years ago when I smoked them.

I switched over to filtered cigars (cigarette equivalent to 100s in size and shape) to avoid the cigarette taxes. I now pay $1.95 for a pack of filtered cigars.

What A Pack Of Cigarettes Costs Now, State By State

[workpublic]

I wish I could be put into an induced coma for two weeks to get over the physical cravings for a cigarette

michael jackson's doctor was just released from jail

[Tennesseer]

Nov 2, 2013 11:18:15 GMT -5 workpublic said:

I wish I could be put into an induced coma for two weeks to get over the physical cravings for a cigarette

michael jackson's doctor was just released from jail

I said two weeks-not eternity. 

[Sum Dum Gai]

If you voluntarily join the military, I agree that you should be able to drink and/or smoke. But does the fact that person "X" does so, mean that person "Y" should be treated in the same manner? The problem with the age of 18 is that a good percentage of such persons are still high school students.

High school students or not, they're legal adults.  They can be drafted and sent to die in some third world shithole over religious dogma.  They can sign contracts.  They can get student loans which aren't dischargeable in bankruptcy to study French Lit.  They can drive half ton SUVs at 75 miles an hour around other people.  I figure they're old enough to decide on their own whether they want a smoke.

[billisonboard]

Nov 2, 2013 12:20:00 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

If you voluntarily join the military, I agree that you should be able to drink and/or smoke. But does the fact that person "X" does so, mean that person "Y" should be treated in the same manner? The problem with the age of 18 is that a good percentage of such persons are still high school students.

High school students or not, they're legal adults. ...

Yes they are. It is their classmates who aren't that gain access through them for which I am concerned.

[Sum Dum Gai]

So we limit the legal rights of adults because some of them might illegally provide something to kids?  Should we make it illegal for anyone with kids to buy alcohol?  Most kids get their first taste by sneaking from their folks, if the parents don't allow them to try a drink in the first place.

[billisonboard]

"Adult" is a social construct.  There is nothing magical about 6574/5 days on the planet.  It differs in different states"

In the United States, the age of majority is determined individually by each state. In 47 of the states, the age of majority is 18. In Nebraska and Alabama it is 19, and in Mississippi it is 21.

Read more: www.ehow.com/about_5030458_legal-contract-age.html#ixzz2jWMlDp7i

It differs by circumstance:

Although many believe that anyone under the age of 21 is prohibited from consuming alcohol in the United States, underage drinking is allowed in 29 states if done on private premises with parental consent, 25 states if for religious purposes, and 11 states if for educational purposes. [1] [2]http://drinkingage.procon.org/

And differs by point in time:

Between 1970 and 1976, 30 states lowered their Minimum Legal Drinking Age (MLDA) from 21 to 18, 19, or 20. [3]

The enactment of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 [4] prompted states to raise their legal age for purchase or public possession of alcohol to 21 or risk losing millions in federal highway funds.

After the repeal of alcohol prohibition by the 21st Amendment on Dec. 5, 1933, Illinois (1933-1961) and Oklahoma (1933-1976) set their state drinking age at 21 for men and 18 for women. The 1976 US Supreme Court case Craig v. Boren ruled 7-2 that this age difference violated the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. [47] drinkingage.procon.org/

[EVT1]

Nov 1, 2013 15:27:21 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

It is responsible for more than 440,000 deaths and more than $75 billion in direct medical costs each year.

Almost definitely false.  It's been a year or two since I've posted about the jihad on smoking, but there are plenty of articles written about the way smoking related health statistics are gathered.  For example, every single person who gets cancer is asked if they smoke or have ever smoked.  If so, the cancer is put into the statistics as smoking related.  The problem with that is that 6% of people who smoke will get lung cancer, and 2% of non smokers will also get lung cancer.  This means that at least some of the smokers who get lung cancer would have gotten it anyway.  Smoking does increase your cancer risk, for lung cancer it triples it, but there's no medical way to know for sure whether your cancer is smoking related or if you would have gotten it anyway.  So, the simple solution is to list all medical problems that smokers get as smoking related.  They do the same thing on death certificates.  If they die of pretty much any disease, and their medical records show that they smoked, the death is listed as smoking related.

I'm not saying cigarettes are healthy, or not unhealthy, but the statistics showing how dangerous smoking is are overinflated.

That's the same thing they do with alcohol.  MADD does it with crash statistics as well, 'alcohol related', regardless of what really happened.  Someone runs a red light and kills you and you had a beer in you- alcohol related fatality. Nothing like agenda driven statistics- so easy to lie with them. Statistics do show, however, that the majority of Americans are full of shit.



 

[workpublic]

I agree, angel. If the law figures you're old enough to die in war, I guess it makes sense you should be old enough to drink, or smoke yourself to death, if that's your choice

me too.

when i was a kid the age for smokes was 16, alcohol 18, vote 18, full drivers license 18
there was no draft(after vietnam before the reinstatement in the 80s)
.

[Sum Dum Gai]

There's no draft now, but every male has to go register for it on their 18th birthday.  Every time I hear some stupid politician say something dumb about getting involved in foreign conflicts I still think about my draft registration, and I'm almost old enough that I would be exempt now.  All it takes is one act of war that we as a people decide we can't ignore, and the draft could be back the following week.

Actually, now that they're opening up combat specialties to women, do they have to register for the draft too?  I'm guessing not, because I'm sure there would be public outrage and news coverage if they made a change like that.  I think they should though.  Equality and all.

[EVT1]

And baseball cards came with cigarettes.  (Surely they weren't going for the youth market)  Marketing to children is disgusting and should be illegal, but once someone is an adult leave them alone.  If you can carry a rifle for Uncle Sam you should be able to do anything else an adult can legally do- ridiculous to have these age stratifications.

Would also mention back in the day you could buy opium and cocaine at the local drug store.  We kind of created our own problems with these substances and stupidly we seek to exacerbate them by creating yet another opportunity for the black market.  Yep- NYC is on top of the shit list lately.

[Deleted]

I never got my cigarettes from an 18 year old HS students.  I walked my cute ass into the gas station, batted my eyelashes at the owner's son (he was around 25), and walked out with a pack of smokes.  If the owner was there, I usually gave him a hug and told him not to tell my dad on me....then walked out with a pack of cigarettes.  (yes I did pay for them...just showing how easy it was for me and it had nothing to do with getting them from other high school students). 

Here in Italy it is extremely easy for my kids to get cigarettes.  They can legally buy them at 14 I believe.  I know my 17 year old has no problem buying them.  I told him that he is not allowed to smoke until he is 18.  I don't care what the legal age is here.  We do not smoke at my house and OUR rule is that if you want to be a dumb ass and smoke (no offense to anyone that does) then you need to be 18.  I am sure the minute he turns 18 he will be smoking because it is so popular here.  At 18 it is his choice.

[billisonboard]

I am struggling with this connection of "if someone is old enough to fight for their country" and the legal age to smoke. First there is the fact that "(l)ess than 0.5 percent of the population serves in the armed forces, ... www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/opinion/americans-and-their-military-drifting-apart.html?_r=0".

But if you are going to base it on that, the legal age to smoke should be seventeen (with parental consent):

By federal law (10 U.S.C., 505), the minimum age for enlistment in the United States Military is 17 (with parental consent) and 18 (without parental consent). usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlage.htm

I say lets tie the legal smoking (and drinking) age to something that makes a lot more sense to a lot more young Americans. Let us tie it to the age of consent for sexual activity:

[Virgil Showlion]

Nov 2, 2013 15:17:25 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"Adult" is a social construct.  There is nothing magical about 6574/5 days on the planet.  It differs in different states"

In the United States, the age of majority is determined individually by each state. In 47 of the states, the age of majority is 18. In Nebraska and Alabama it is 19, and in Mississippi it is 21.

Read more: www.ehow.com/about_5030458_legal-contract-age.html#ixzz2jWMlDp7i

It differs by circumstance:

Although many believe that anyone under the age of 21 is prohibited from consuming alcohol in the United States, underage drinking is allowed in 29 states if done on private premises with parental consent, 25 states if for religious purposes, and 11 states if for educational purposes. [1] [2]http://drinkingage.procon.org/

And differs by point in time:

Between 1970 and 1976, 30 states lowered their Minimum Legal Drinking Age (MLDA) from 21 to 18, 19, or 20. [3]

The enactment of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 [4] prompted states to raise their legal age for purchase or public possession of alcohol to 21 or risk losing millions in federal highway funds.

After the repeal of alcohol prohibition by the 21st Amendment on Dec. 5, 1933, Illinois (1933-1961) and Oklahoma (1933-1976) set their state drinking age at 21 for men and 18 for women. The 1976 US Supreme Court case Craig v. Boren ruled 7-2 that this age difference violated the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. [47] drinkingage.procon.org/

"Educational purposes" of drinking?

[Sum Dum Gai]

"Educational purposes" of drinking?

I've given my daughter's alcohol for educational purposes.  I brew my own beer with their grandfather, and they've helped us do it.  They tasted the product at every step, from tasting the grains, tasting the wort pre and post boil, tasting after primary and secondary fermentation (alcoholic at this point), and finally tasting the finished beer after bottle conditioning (finally fizzy).  They still don't understand why we take something as sweet, delicious, and fragrant as the wort just after sparging, and add bitterness and alcoholic burn to it.

I wouldn't hand them a fifth of Jack so they can experience being wasted, and call it educational, but I can see why the exemption exists.

[billisonboard]

Nov 3, 2013 16:06:59 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

... "Educational purposes" of drinking?

Classroom demonstrations of the effects of alcohol consumption on reaction times. Used to illustrate impact on driving.

[swamp]

There are colleges that offer wine tasting/appreciation and bartending classes, especially those that offer courses in hotel/ restaurant and hospitality management. I would think that would count as an "educational purpose".