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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 14:10:26 GMT -5
Kids Last Name : The kids will have my last name
Savings: I have discovered a way that works with my wife... it is called not seeing the money. If my wife can see the money aka checking account/savings account she will want to spend it. Example, I went out of town for work this week and forgot to transfer some money out of our account. My wife spend about $400 while I was away because she knew in her mind that all bills were paid and that was just for savings... so why not not spend it some of it. In -> $193 Sam's Club -> $45 for pedicure -> $50 or so old Navy -> $40 Target -> $78 Macy's (that was my valentine day gift ) -> $65 Toys R US (her little cousin birthday last week) -> About $50 on eating out (she doesn't like cooking for herself so if I am out of town for work, 8/10 times she will most likely pick something up on her way home for dinner)
and a few others things. The Sam Club I am ok about because we do go there every 3-4 months to get a few things that we might need/use. The rest were just little purchases of $30-60 here and there.
So our method is: -> 20% of our gross going towards 401K -> $200/month toward each ROTH IRA -> Anywhere from 200-500 towards savings every month, depending on that month and Overtime. Just have to make sure it does not stay on our checking account or the other savings account we have with TD BANK (only keep 1K in that savins account or so)
I am not hiding the money, she knows where they are (money market with Vanguard, savings account with credit union) and could easily access it if she wanted to; but that would require extra work on her part so she leaves them alone. She only checks the balance on the checking and savings account we have with TD.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 14:13:49 GMT -5
Just do it. You are ready.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 18, 2011 14:16:34 GMT -5
I agree with you Snerd. This is why i don't actually think 'save X and have Y put aside' is the most important issue here. I think reasonable rassurance that you can provide a stable life is much less about a fully stocked retirment and EF to cover every contingency, and much more about 'are we on the same page'... this includes general ideas of how children will be raised and disciplined (although kids do change a lot of those ideas... lol..) but most importantly i think it includes being on the same page financially... do we both have the same financial goals. Do we both work consistently towards those goals together. NOT just pay them lip service. Finances are the number one things couples argue over... and it doesn't get better with kids... I think they are OK financially if they really want a baby AND ARE ON THE SAME PAGE FINANCIALLY. What I worry about is their compatiblity. Cawiau posts all the time about his and his wife's disagreements about money, how they reach an agreement, then she buys another purse/sweater/pair of shoes/dog sweater or wants a wireless printer, or a vacation, or a crockpot, or whatever, and he doesn't appear to be a paragon of frugality either. Their financial disagreements resulted in a brief separation earlier in the year. The fights over money are just going to get worse with a baby in the picture.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 18, 2011 14:28:50 GMT -5
The fights over money are just going to get worse with a baby in the picture.
I heartily second that. That's why I said that they are NOT in agreement that this is the right time for a kid if one is having significant doubts about their financial situation and the other one isn't. DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 14:33:19 GMT -5
The fights over money are just going to get worse with a baby in the picture.I heartily second that. That's why I said that they are NOT in agreement that this is the right time for a kid if one is having significant doubts about their financial situation and the other one isn't. DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER. If I waited until my wife and I agreed about money we would never have had any kids.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Feb 18, 2011 14:47:26 GMT -5
I would say have kids as soon as one of you has an overwhelming emotional feeling that it's time. (I know--wrong board).
I wanted our financial house in order, but when that feeling hit nothing could have stopped me. And the moment I had my son I knew that I should have started 10 years earlier.
Kids don't make anything easier, and sometimes make them much more difficult. However, my dh and I are more on the same financial wave length now that we have a child and want more. Kids are a tangible, and very important reason to save money that dh understands and is happy to work toward.
My last thought to leave you with is that I NEVER thought I would want to be a sahm. Figured I was more of a quality over quantity type of person. But once I had him that completely changed, and if there was anyway to pay the bills and meet our goals on dh's salary (without moving back with our parents) I would do it in a heartbeat.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 18, 2011 14:58:46 GMT -5
If I waited until my wife and I agreed about money we would never have had any kids.
I didn't say "agree about money," I said "have significant doubts." In my experience, it's usually the spouse that handles the money who has relevant concerns about ability to pay for something.
What I meant is that if cawiau doesn't feel like they can financially support a baby at this time, that's not to be discounted even if his wife doesn't agree.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 18, 2011 15:03:31 GMT -5
If I waited until my wife and I agreed about money we would never have had any kids.I didn't say "agree about money," I said "have significant doubts." In my experience, it's usually the spouse that handles the money who has relevant concerns about ability to pay for something. What I meant is that if cawiau doesn't feel like they can financially support a baby at this time, that's not to be discounted even if his wife doesn't agree. Archie, we don't get regular missives from you about her overspending.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 15:14:13 GMT -5
Children aren't dolls. The reality is really, really messy. Sometimes grody.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 18, 2011 15:16:15 GMT -5
The reality is really, really messy. Sometimes grody.Tell me about it. I got all the way to work before I realized I had baby poop underneath my fingernail after changing DD before we left for daycare.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 15:16:41 GMT -5
If I waited until my wife and I agreed about money we would never have had any kids.I didn't say "agree about money," I said "have significant doubts." In my experience, it's usually the spouse that handles the money who has relevant concerns about ability to pay for something. What I meant is that if cawiau doesn't feel like they can financially support a baby at this time, that's not to be discounted even if his wife doesn't agree. Archie, we don't get regular missives from you about her overspending. I'm not quite as bored as Cawaui.. which is a little uprising in and of itself.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 18, 2011 15:42:57 GMT -5
We were both raised Catholic and both went to private Catholic school. I no longer consider myself Catholic while my wife does and she wants to raise our kid Catholic which I am ok with. The only issue we have yet to put to bed is: catholic private school and public school. You guessed it, my wife wants our kids to go to catholic private school Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=finance&action=display&thread=3564&page=2#ixzz1ELSABfRuWhich brings up the question of how good are your public schools? The ones here suck. I mean really, really suck. Like have a graduation rate of 50% or so suck. I realize a lot of it is the lack of parenting by the parents and not the teachers/schools fault. I don't care. We're going to be shelling out for private schools, if it means I need to get a 2nd job, fine.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 18, 2011 17:31:25 GMT -5
Exactly!
If you wanted a kid bad enough, then you two could afford to have a kid. You would just have to cut other things out of the budget, so the question is what are your priorities? It sounds to me like you are more concerned with saving money & paying down loans than having a kid right now & there is nothing wrong with that, but it just means you aren't ready to have kids. It sounds like your wife won't be happy unless she can buy all kinds of crap for your kids & that doesn't mesh with your savings goals, so you probably aren't ready to be parents.
Just a personal opinion from reading a lot of your threads - I think you worry about money too much. It probably doesn't help that your wife is a spender & you are a saver (perhaps you are overcompensating the saving as a reaction to her spending). But, you guys are putting a decent amount into retirement & not living paycheck to paycheck, so you are doing fine, especially given your ages.
Kids cost as much or as little as you want. The only things I would figure out is: - How much is daycare & can you fit that into your budget (or can you live on one income if your wife chooses to stay home)? - How much is insurance for the kids & can you fit that into the budget? I believe you already have a family plan, so no extra cost there. - Then figure another $200-$400 in monthly spending to account for diapers, food, clothes, etc & does that fit into the budget?
It looks like you save ~$400/month in savings, ~$19K/yr in 401K, ~$4800/yr IRA. That means you are currently saving about $2350/month. Assume the baby will cost ~$1500/month. Right there you could afford the baby, if you were ok saving just $850/month.
But, by the time the baby comes you would have your car loan paid off, freeing up an extra $250/month. Plus, your taxes will drop by around $200/month when you consider the extra exemption, daycare credit, & child credit. So now you can keep your current lifestyle & just drop your savings to $1300/month, which is still over 15% of your income.
So, can you afford a baby? Yes, you can afford a baby. Do you want a baby bad enough that you are ok with only saving 15% of your income & not spend ridiculous amounts of money on baby crap - I am guessing not, but only you two can answer this.
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oreo
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Post by oreo on Feb 18, 2011 18:35:14 GMT -5
Isn't it challenging to do anything while your baby sleeps if they are sleeping in the living room? You wouldn't be able to leave your bedroom.
That being said, you can get by with 1 bedroom or a studio but it would be easier if you have a bedroom for the kid within the first year I think. My son slept in our room until he was 6 months old in a cosleeper (much smaller than a crib) and when he stood up in it, we knew he had to start sleeping in his crib.
As for waiting until you are completely financially ready, that is kind of unrealistic (although not as much so if you are only in your mid 20s) unless you are independently wealthy!
Can your MIL just live nearby and maybe watch your baby for a while (months or a year)? One advantage to waiting until you are ancient like I did (44) is that my parents and my husband's parents are both semi-retired so my parents watch my son 3 days a week and my husband's mother watches him the other 2 days. It is awesome because we save on day care but more importantly, my son knows his grandparents very well (mine lived across the country and I hardly ever saw them) and they get to spend a lot of time with them.
Instead of registering at places for new, overpriced stuff, you should be looking at Craigslist and thirft shops (not for a crib or car seat though). Although, if you want to blow a LOT of money, buying all of your stuff new at Babies R Us (and even worse--Pottery Barn Kids) is definitely the way to go!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 19:30:46 GMT -5
Thanks Angel D. and you sound like my wife when it comes to me worrying too much about money. I have to agree that you both are right, I do worry about it... but that is because I don't want to end up when I am 40 in the same spot as if I were 20 and trying to play catch up. And we do want kids but I guess you are spot on: Do I want it bad enough to back off savings a bit? Do my want it bad enough to scale back her spending? I guess we have a year to figure it out.
Oreo, yes it would be great if her mom lived closed by but I wish that was an option. I always wanted to move back to NJ before having kids because that would put us close to all my family and only about an hour from her mom... but that is not going to happen it seems.
Wisconsin Beth, we currently live in an area that the public school is not so good and we are looking at the following two possibilities: -> I might have to move again by the time they are old enough to go to school -> If we stay in our current neighborhood we might pony up for private school or just move to a better school district which would be easier since we are renting.
I know we can afford to have a kid if we just move some numbers around: just by paying off my car loan and credit card that would free up $700/month. Lowering 401K from 20 to 10% will provide us with another $700/month pre tax. So yes we could... but are we ready to take the jump? guess that is why we are waiting till the end of 2011 to decide.
I think everyone is forgetting that we are not trying to have kids this year or even next year for that matter. We are asking for what we need to do now and next year to put us in a better situation financially to get pregnant. We will both turn 28 in 2012 which we figure is somewhat a good time to start a family, we just want to be ready to do so if we want to.
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 18, 2011 20:38:17 GMT -5
Are you already pregnant?! (Not you literally LOL). Sheesh I hope not, take some time to get the debt down.
I really don't mean to be rude AT ALL, but surely after several years here, you do realize that some cultures / religions / geographic regions / classes really do things totally differently from others.
When I was pregnant with my first child (now 24!) my MOL (Mother Out Law, ie ex MIL) had me compile a register. Within 48 hours (apparently her DH, my Father Out Law, ie ex FIL tried to hold her back. He managed for all of 24 hours.)
48 hours later, EVERY SINGLE ITEM ON THAT REGISTER had been purchased. And then I had to come up with ANOTHER register for the rest of the family.
Carl, you SO KNOW that your mom and / or your MIL is going to pull the same sort of nonsense. They'll even fight over it and each try to outdo the other.
Stop being so disingenuous.
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 18, 2011 20:41:40 GMT -5
I think everyone is forgetting that we are not trying to have kids this year or even next year for that matter. We are asking for what we need to do now and next year to put us in a better situation financially to get pregnant.
That's easy ... stay in your apt, and pay down your debt. Just get on with it!!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 21:17:32 GMT -5
I agree with debtheaven... i wouldn't move. I'd cut down on other expenses. but move now, move when you have a kid, move when he has to go to school... that's a lot of moving, and moving isn't cheap. I'd stay put and cut other expenses.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 23:19:10 GMT -5
Carl, you SO KNOW that your mom and / or your MIL is going to pull the same sort of nonsense. They'll even fight over it and each try to outdo the other. Believe me, I not only know it, I expect it. My first child will be the first grandson for both set of grandparents... so yes, that will be a serious celebration on itself and it will be hard to make them hold back. I can see my mother in law pulling that one, buying everything on the registry... and worse, the second registry my mom will buy everything just to keep up with my mother in law. Geeh, what a headache I am looking forward too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 23:22:30 GMT -5
I agree with debtheaven... i wouldn't move. I'd cut down on other expenses. but move now, move when you have a kid, move when he has to go to school... that's a lot of moving, and moving isn't cheap. I'd stay put and cut other expenses. We are moving to a smaller one bedroom in our current complex that will allow us to save 300-460/month. If we decide to have a kid in 2012 we will probably move out of this complex and just move to a better school district all together. So that is just 2 moves really: one this year and the other whenever we decide to get preggers. Also with my job there is always the possibility of having to move sooner than we want too which is why we are opting for not buying a house anytime soon.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2011 11:34:54 GMT -5
OP, like others said, it's just as important to be on the same page with your wife as far as parenting and being emotionally ready as it is to be financially ready. DH and I will have our first in early August - he's 27 and I'm 28. Are we in the best possible position financially? No. I have a decent entry level job and am earning a Master's degree reimbursed by work. DH works at a university with great benefits, just completed a MLIS and is looking for academic librarian jobs. Combined we make less than $80k/year in a HCOL. But DH's school loans are almost paid off, I'm making a dent in mine (but I still have a ways to go), we only have 1 car (paid), we have no consumer debt and decent savings, we are maxing our 401ks (or 403b in his case), and DH has an IRA (I'm planning to open one when I get my degree). And we know we will do our best to work together to raise our child the way we think is best. And I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but I wanted us to have our first child before I turned 30 - we wouldn't have the parental support we have now if we waited 5-7 years, especially with my mother, to say nothing of the increase in the likelihood of reproductive problems at age 35 and over. While the timing with school is bad, I'd say this is a pretty good time.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 19, 2011 13:38:41 GMT -5
Believe me, I not only know it, I expect it. My first child will be the first grandson for both set of grandparents... so yes, that will be a serious celebration on itself and it will be hard to make them hold back. Um, how do you know it's going to be a boy?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 19, 2011 13:50:35 GMT -5
My first child will be the first grandson for both set of grandparents... so yes, that will be a serious celebration on itself and it will be hard to make them hold back.
That's a huge assumption.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Feb 19, 2011 14:41:50 GMT -5
Do you and your wife belong to a Catholic Parish?
We send our kid to Catholic school mostly because it's academically better than our public school system.
However, when you sign the kid up (which at our parish, it's at birth) for school, it's expected the family :
Is a member of the church Tithes what the church expects Volunteers in the church
In other words, our church doesn't just let anyone who wants to pay the tuition come.
So, yes, you aren't pregnant yet. But, depending if you do want to do the catholic school route, you may not have a ton of extra time to start a relationship with the church that has the school.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 19, 2011 15:25:59 GMT -5
The Catholic school my DS goes to doesn't even require the kids to be Catholic, they'll take anyone who will pay the tuition. Believe it or not, there area few Muslim kids there. I think they're there because the parents think it's more accepting and safer than the public school.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2011 16:09:55 GMT -5
The most popular private school around here is actually Menonite, but lots of kids who are not Menonite do go to the school. Bible classes are part of the curriculum, but you don't have to be Menonite to go there.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2011 16:33:21 GMT -5
Sorry, I mean grandchild but for some reason I typed grandson. Maybe without knowing it I am secretly hoping for a boy. As for the Catholic church around here, none of them really cares if you belong to the church or not; as long as you can afford to pay for the tuition. It was the same case for both my wife and I when we were going to school: Alot of our friends were 7th day adventist, jeovah witness, muslim, etc. They were expected to take bible classes like us but were not obligated to attend mass with us/ first communion or confirmation.
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daylight
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Post by daylight on Feb 19, 2011 18:00:57 GMT -5
Cawiau - I read a lot of your threads back on old YM, and some here, too, and I usually very much enjoy them.
As you pointed out you are talking about trying to have a kid late next year. I'm not saying don't do it, because it does not feel right giving that kind of advice. However, I second every post that pointed out that you and your wife still are not on the same page (financially). To me, it seems that she agrees to your expectations in theory but then does the opposite in practice. My problem with this scenario is that it shows that your conflict solving is not entirely successful. I agree with everyone who said that if you wait to be completely set for a kid, you'll never have one. But you absolutely need to learn how to resolve disagreements with your wife in general, because raising kids is the kind of pastime that has the possibility of a disagreement around every corner. (please note that I used the word resolve and not handle) If your current conflict solving looks like this: You: Darling, please don't buy that *whatever*. Your wife: Of course, I've just forgot our discussion about paying down debt the other day. I'd need to reread some of your threads to remember what you do when she does go out and buys that *whatever*. But that's what the situation comes down to. What will you say to her if you agree not to buy a set of swings for Jr., but she buys a set nevertheless? What will you say to her/do, if much more than a set of swings will be at stake? I've really liked the sentence "Your actions speak so loud I cannot hear you talking/speaking" in one of the old YM threads. Your wife is talking to you via her actions meaning that you should view your situation in light of her words and actions. You need to resolve this. You'll have immense difficulties if you think your discussions end when you both "agree" on something and she thinks the last word is being said when she goes out, does the opposite and you react (or don't react). This will bite you in the back so fast, Jr. will still be in his/her hospital crib. If I were you, I'd work as hard as I can on the way you handle your disagreements. This might be done by late 2012.
I apologize, if I don't remember well some of the details you have revealed in previous threads and if my impression is contrary to what you have said in previous posts. Good luck with working on the relationship angle and feel free to point me to previous threads in case I walked away with the wrong impression.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2011 22:35:27 GMT -5
Thanks everyone... The goal is the end of 2012 beginning of 2013. Just like the previous poster my wife wants to have at least 1 kid before she turns 30; and I want to be done with kids by the time I turn 32 lol (so one at 28 and the other one at about 30-32); knock on wood that all work out well. As some of you has noted, most of our disagreements has been about money. I come from a family where I've seen my mom struggle to raise us on her own (working $3-4/hour with kids to support) , working 2 jobs, never sleeping to now being somewhat financially set so I understand the value of hard work and the need to save money. My wife is an only child and I feel after her dad passed away when she was 2 her mom somewhat went into overprotective mode and somewhat spoiled her, etc. Her mom keep on telling us it's ok if we cannot save right now since we are both young and just starting out and to me that is contrary to everything I stand for. We have been together for 8 years and married for 3 this august and I would be lying if I didn't say that she has gotten a lot better with money. Hey the other day I heard her saying to her friend that : Yes that is why Carl has bee teaching me, it is so important to leave below your means because you don't know what might happen. Proud moment for me And she balances me out in the sense I understand it is important to sometimes just lay back, stop worrying about money and it is okay to spend a bit to enjoy life. So we are pulling each other to the middle and trying to find a perfect a balance that work for us... some months it might be more spending, the next more saving; like I said work in progress. Ex: December we only saved our 401K and nothing else, about the same for Jan but Feb we managed to send 500 to each ROTH and $750 to our savings account: give and take.
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