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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 12:50:56 GMT -5
Snerdly,
Do you like stomping on the Constitution and using the flag of our great nation to wipe the bacon grease that drips from your authoritarian mouth?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 12:52:50 GMT -5
I am banning that word.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Feb 18, 2011 12:53:43 GMT -5
But, I don't think we need to dissolve into "witch burning" hysteria just because a school removes a book. It isn't the end of the world. And, you can get the books where ever you want. so you're OK with censorship then?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 12:55:20 GMT -5
That avatar has given you new super powers of masculinity. Awesome! it;s not a snake...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 12:58:40 GMT -5
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Feb 18, 2011 12:58:53 GMT -5
every child, including those that do not consider it their holy book? good luck with that...
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Post by marjar on Feb 18, 2011 12:59:03 GMT -5
the finance book was for a personal finance class. the first child was offended by the comment about Jesus. 'Water for Elephants' was to be used in a special session that would be during school break, for kids that chose to sign up for extra classes. the book was chosen for the historical merits, not for its instructional capacity for fellatio. why not just have your kid sign up for a different class in the extra session? or better yet, find a school that teaches the way you want your children to learn. Why should I have to find another school? I pay taxes that run the school. I have every right and in fact a duty to monitor what my children are being exposed to and to make my opinions and feelings know. I have never even heard of the book, nor do i care. If you want to give it to your child to read, go ahead but you have no right to expose my child to something I think is inappropriate. There are tons of well written and classic literature that they could read. Take some time and educate yourself on this topic. See how many books, considered classic literature, have suffered from attempts to ban them.Huck Finn, As I Lay Dying, Catcher in the Rye, and To Kill a Mockingbird are just some of the books that make the list.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 18, 2011 13:02:42 GMT -5
Every child should be reading the Bible if not, that is censorship and banning. Even if they are Hindu Americans? Theocracy! Theocracy! Theocracy! Burn The Heretics! Where is Judge Thomas Danforth when you really need him.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Feb 18, 2011 13:02:59 GMT -5
again, this was not required reading for all students. it was an extra class where, I would hope, the teacher would be leading an intelligent discussion about the content. would you suggest my sister, who teaches HS English, is distributing porn for teaching "Running With Scissors" in her classes?
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Post by marjar on Feb 18, 2011 13:03:32 GMT -5
Every child should be reading the Bible if not, that is censorship and banning. Why?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 18, 2011 13:06:27 GMT -5
I will dare post an excerpt from Water for Elephants: Thunderous applause exploded from the big top, and the band slid seamlessly into the Gounod waltz. I turned instinctively toward the menagerie because this was the cue for the elephant act. Marlena was either preparing to mount or was already sitting on Rosie's head.
"I've got to go," I said.
"Sit," said Grady. "Eat. If you're thinking of clearing out, it may be a while before you see food again."
That moment, the music screeched to a halt. There was an ungodly collision of brass, reed, and percussion—trombones and piccolos skidded into cacophony, a tuba farted, and the hollow clang of a cymbal wavered out of the big top, over our heads and into oblivion.
Grady froze, crouched over his burger with his pinkies extended and lips spread wide.
I looked from side to side. No one moved a muscle—all eyes were directed at the big top. A few wisps of hay swirled lazily across the hard dirt.
"What is it? What's going on?" I said.
"Shh," Grady hissed.
The band started up again, playing "Stars and Stripes Forever."
"Oh Christ. Oh shit!" Grady tossed his food onto the table and leapt up, knocking over the bench.
"What? What is it?" I yelled, because he was already running away from me.
"The Disaster March!" he screamed over his shoulder.
I jerked around to the fry cook, who was ripping off his apron. "What the hell's he talking about?"
"The Disaster March," he said, wrestling the apron over his head. "Means something's gone bad—real bad."
"Like what?"
"Could be anything—fire in the big top, stampede, whatever. Aw sweet Jesus. The poor rubes probably don't even know it yet." He ducked under the hinged door and took off.
Chaos—candy butchers vaulting over counters, workmen staggering out from under tent flaps, roustabouts racing headlong across the lot. Anyone and everyone associated with the Benzini Brothers Most Spectacular Show on Earth barreled toward the big top.
Diamond Joe passed me at the human equivalent of a full gallop. "Jacob—it's the menagerie," he screamed. "The animals are loose. Go, go, go!"
He didn't need to tell me twice. Marlena was in that tent. www.bookbrowse.com/excerpts/index.cfm?book_number=1826
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 13:08:31 GMT -5
You are making my point. Just because a book is no longer included doesn't equal censorship. George Washington is crying in Heaven right now.
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Feb 18, 2011 13:11:15 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 13:11:58 GMT -5
Running With Scissors?? I liked that book, and the sequel, but I am pretty worldly. I don't see any reason to indoctrinate young people with weird things like that. Does she teach it as NORMAL, or what?? There is an incredible amount of mental illness bizarre dysfunction in Running With Scissors, as well as criminal behavior with the young kid having an older man as his first love. As I said-- I liked it a lot, especially the sequel when the kid turned man got sober and turned his insane life around. But-- it is very mature subject matter. Some kids are more mature and worldly than others. I can see that book being very offensive to some people. Do their rights not count, also? I know ADULTS that would not read that book. As someone said-- there are lots of books, why can't the kids read other books? I bet they don't read Atlas Shrugged, a great classic.
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Post by marjar on Feb 18, 2011 13:12:34 GMT -5
Take some time and educate yourself on this topic. See how many books, considered classic literature, have suffered from attempts to ban them.Huck Finn, As I Lay Dying, Catcher in the Rye, and To Kill a Mockingbird are just some of the books that make the list. Why don't you "educate" yourself? I haven't read every book every written and neither have you. I think there are lots of books that kids can read. And, when objections come up, it is reasonable to look at the objections as well and not just dig your heels in with the hysteria. There can and are valid reasons to choose one book over or another. How many books are really read in High School anyway? I might behoove you to have some idea of what you are rallying against.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Feb 18, 2011 13:12:57 GMT -5
karma, mkitty. awesome!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 18, 2011 13:15:51 GMT -5
Running With Scissors?? I liked that book, and the sequel, but I am pretty worldly And you seriously have trouble reading Water for Elephants?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 13:17:33 GMT -5
Trying to goad me in to posting the porn from water for elephants on this board?? No cookie for you. One ban for posting school approved porn was enough for me. Sweet little excerpt you posted, though. I hope some people were able to read the one I gave a link to and cannot post because it is explicit sexual content.
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Post by marjar on Feb 18, 2011 13:20:26 GMT -5
I might behoove you to have some idea of what you are rallying against. I would try but the flapping avatar constantly drawing attention to yourself is a bit distracting. Good rebuttal!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 18, 2011 13:20:30 GMT -5
krickitt-I would probalby be correct in stating you never even read Water for Elephants.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Feb 18, 2011 13:21:25 GMT -5
krickitt, I read the passage you linked to....it's nowhere near the level of that one passage in RWS. I don't think Tenn was trying to goad you into doing anything other than see how your statements don't quite line up.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 18, 2011 13:22:29 GMT -5
From the time I could read, and I did that early, nobody ever censored my reading materials. As a child, that which I didn't understand simply went over my head. You can't expect a child to think as you do. They simply don't. I read Mickey Spillane's "Kiss Me Deadly" when I was in 5th grade. Even did a book report on it, much to my parents' chagrin. The sexual parts didn't register with me because I didn't have any pre-conceived notions about them. I just liked the "detective guy" and his female friends getting the bad perps. The book isn't the problem. The problem lies in the mind-set under which the book is read.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 13:32:42 GMT -5
Playing dense, Tenn?? I could barely read the link I posted to water for elephants, that was in the link in the OP because the letters are very small. Good try, though. You guys don't get it, do you?? Many parents do not want their kids to get their sex education at school. Do they have rights?? Why can't a board at the school pick from million of books and find books that won't offend anyone? Some people seem to think parents should read books they would not choose to read just to see if they approve of their children reading them. WHY?? There are millions of books.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 18, 2011 13:34:57 GMT -5
Children reading books aren't getting their sex education at school, unless parents allow it to be that way. If I read material I didn't understand, I was always welcome to bring questions to my parents, and I knew it. There were many questions over the years, and always truthful answers.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 18, 2011 13:41:55 GMT -5
When my kid was in elementary school, a parent embarked on a battle to have Shel Silverstein's books removed. He objected to the pen and ink drawing of a child's butt being stung by a bumble bee, among other things. When the school rejected his demands for removal of the books, he went to the school library and tore the offending pages from the books. I agree on the book banning, was there a link to the story, I seemed to miss it. I could even see a book such as "Mein Kauf " being available or possible that and other such hate books ..used in a class under teacher supervision, to discuss, point out the fallacies of in a course dedicated to such prioaganda and real life happenings..ok, possible a bit much for High School instruction, but the idea of any book not being available because of content ...desturbes me, any book..."Protocals of Zion " in the right setting..for discussion of..any book...
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steff
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Post by steff on Feb 18, 2011 13:44:14 GMT -5
Some people seem to think parents should read books they would not choose to read just to see if they approve of their children reading them. WHY??
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as a parent, if you are seriously worried about what your child is being exposed to, then YES, you read the book either first or along with them. You prepare yourself to answer any questions they may have or whatever is necessary to help/protect/educate them.
and again, this book & course was voluntary, this was NOT 'required' reading for all students. A permission slip was required before reading the book.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 13:46:25 GMT -5
Atlas Shrugged has plenty of sex... You using Dagny Taggart as your role model to your daughter?... on sexual roles? What is that quote where she talks about calling herself D-Anconia's mistress and feeling the pride one does when they use the term wife...
Have you ever read up on how constant Ayn Rand was in her marriage vows?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 13:50:17 GMT -5
I read Atlas Shrugged when i was 16. I actually recommended it to the parent who was complaining about the communist manifesto... i said, have him read that, and atlas shrugged and we can talk about both ideals, and how they are both not remotely, realistically attainable in the real world...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 13:51:18 GMT -5
This is an excerpt from the article:
Hagen (from the school board) said the school will continue to improve and review their process to allow books into the curriculum, and he hopes to have more informed discussions from townspeople about them.
“I think we should have better guidance, and we’re looking to do a better job, but we also hope to get a sense of the general community’s opinion on this,” Hagen said. “That includes the opinions that are being expressed now but in a respectful way where we can get a broad range of opinion so we have an understanding of how we should proceed.”
sounds pretty reasonable to me.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 18, 2011 13:53:22 GMT -5
Playing dense, Tenn?? I could barely read the link I posted to water for elephants, that was in the link in the OP because the letters are very small. krickitt-if you had initally said the type was too small we wouldn't be having this side conversation. Your quote: You made zero mention of the small print. And if you had mentioned the small print, the link you posted (Adobe PDF file) has an icon/tool to zoom in and make it larger/easier to read. Check it out. It will come in handy for you in the future.
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