Senate Democrats boycott vote

[privateinvestor]

Even though I disagree with the process happening in WI
Read more: www.notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=3545&page=3#ixzz1EKvSCpxe


Wisconsin is NOT the only state that is taking to the streets because of proposed cuts to Public Workers pay and benefits...this could become countrywide since the White House and Liberals are behind the scenes stroking the fires of revolt...

[deziloooooo]

Feb 18, 2011 13:17:35 GMT -5 rockon said:

Even though I disagree with the process happening in WI it is very evident that the public sector employees just don't get what's going on and their refusal to negotiate reductions in the past is at least partially responsible for the crisis many of these states are in. The average private sector family in Michigan has seen a wage/ benefit reduction of over 20% in recent years while many in the public sector are still whining about their minimal 3-4% increases or that their COL increase was so small or that someone is trying to reduce the cost of their benefit package. These people are completely out of touch with reality. Government officials should not even be allowed to negotiate these contracts with public workers since it is not even their own money they are spending. It seems like a citizens commission of tax payers might be more objective in negotiations.

Problem with that scenario..it's the legislature, Governors{Administration} that are responsible for the budget..one of the big things they are judged on...that and their campaigning on issues, programs they favor over the othe guy..your scenario just would't fly IMHO.

[Gardening Grandma]

I feel he has a problem now..partially his and the legislatures making of because of the business tax cuts, , but not willing to take the heat for it..

Desi,
I think you nailed it. Much easier (and plays better with the Pubs) to demonize the unions.

<<karma>>

[deziloooooo]

Feb 18, 2011 13:35:34 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

I feel he has a problem now..partially his and the legislatures making of because of the business tax cuts, , but not willing to take the heat for it..

Desi,
I think you nailed it. Much easier (and plays better with the Pubs) to demonize the unions.

<<karma>>

It's true , other States are also doing things..Connecticut..wants 2 Billion over the next two years back from state workers..union heads have given him suuggestions, he's appreciated ...but not enough. He has put up many suggestions...but with all that, no calling out the guard. He said they will or things will happen..possible lay offs, even more cuts to programs, 50,000 State employees ...He's a newly elected Democrat...

[rockon]

Michigan's ex governor (thank God) Granholm was the perfect example of an individual who made very poor financial decisions during her time in office that the tax payers of the state will spend years paying for. Unfortunately the public employees of this state will most likely have to help pay for her mistakes right along with every person working in the private sector and there is no reason they should not have to help out. The real irony was that she made Obama's short list for his economic improvement commission. I agree with Trump. We have to be the laughing stock of the world.

[jkapp]

Feb 18, 2011 13:35:34 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

I feel he has a problem now..partially his and the legislatures making of because of the business tax cuts, , but not willing to take the heat for it..

Desi,
I think you nailed it. Much easier (and plays better with the Pubs) to demonize the unions.

<<karma>>

YOu mean just like what the Dems do to the "rich" and corporations and insurance companies???

[ameiko]

Before you go insulting the unions, just remember that most of your rights as working people in the US are due to Unions.

The unions claim way too much credit for such things and not enough for driving out many, many businesses outside of this nation. Also, this is a PUBLIC union who is taking taxpayer's money- a far cry from the private unions that did most of the work.

Personally, I'm not in a union: I guess I just have to rely on being a highly trained professional who is tough to replace, rather than part of a group of thugs who extort and coerce the taxpayer and pimp our own school kids in an attempt to strong arm already strapped taxpayers.

[ameiko]

The Wisconsin governor should announce that for every day that the Democrats stay away, the percentage that the teachers need to pay in will increase. Break the Democrats and break those greedy unions who don't care about our kids because if they did, they would be TEACHING those children!

[vonnie6200]

Feb 19, 2011 19:06:29 GMT -5 ameiko said:

The Wisconsin governor should announce that for every day that the Democrats stay away, the percentage that the teachers need to pay in will increase. Break the Democrats and break those greedy unions who don't care about our kids because if they did, they would be TEACHING those children!

[Tennesseer]

Feb 19, 2011 19:06:29 GMT -5 ameiko said:

The Wisconsin governor should announce that for every day that the Democrats stay away, the percentage that the teachers need to pay in will increase. Break the Democrats and break those greedy unions who don't care about our kids because if they did, they would be TEACHING those children!

Punish teachers for the actions of others. Real nice.

[b2r]

Just gave ameiko karma and now it's gone, that's odd.

[Deleted]

b2r-- something weird going on with the board. This morning I had a smite button for a few minutes.

[b2r]

Solar flares?

[deziloooooo]

Feb 19, 2011 19:31:47 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

b2r-- something weird going on with the board. This morning I had a smite button for a few minutes.

It was a test...you were being watched, abuse it..you were in trouble. See your still here so I guess you passed.

[ameiko]

Feb 19, 2011 19:13:50 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 19, 2011 19:06:29 GMT -5 ameiko said:

The Wisconsin governor should announce that for every day that the Democrats stay away, the percentage that the teachers need to pay in will increase. Break the Democrats and break those greedy unions who don't care about our kids because if they did, they would be TEACHING those children!

Punish teachers for the actions of others. Real nice.

Given that the Democrats and teachers are allies, standing shoulder to shoulder, in this endevour, heck yes! This would pressure the teachers and unions to pressure the Democrats to get back and do their jobs!

The fiscal conservatives won the election and if the teachers and unions don't like it, they should focus on the next one instead of being the party of no and impeding the process.

[deziloooooo]

Feb 19, 2011 21:23:25 GMT -5 ameiko said:

Feb 19, 2011 19:13:50 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Punish teachers for the actions of others. Real nice.

Given that the Democrats and teachers are allies, standing shoulder to shoulder, in this endevour, heck yes! This would pressure the teachers and unions to pressure the Democrats to get back and do their jobs!

The fiscal conservatives won the election and if the teachers and unions don't like it, they should focus on the next one instead of being the party of no and impeding the process.

Now I am getting confused . I thought it was finally considered proper and acceptable , in fact something to be commended to be a party of NO. Now your saying it , a party of No, is a No, No?

[skweet]

I think that the dabate about this issue is fun, but I could really care less whether WI expenses are reduced, or revenues are increased or whether they solve their fiscal problems or not. We're talking like $4B or less right? What I am curious of, is if a state can solve their over promise/ under tax problem without federal bailout. We have several states, CA my most concern, that will place a heavy burden on the US citizens. CA cannot raise taxes, to raise revenues. Their businesses will flee. I think WI businesses are there because they like WI, and might pony up a little more, not so with CA. If WI can solve this problem without a federal bail-out, then CA can be forced to as well. It is sad that we have the class warfare where the unions, that are compensated so far above the private workers that pay their salary could truly tear this nation apart.
One question, if Obama supporters are, so pro-union in the voting boothe, why is my local walmart filled with Toyotas and Subarus with Obama stickers? Shouldn't they not shop at the union busting Walmart, and be driving cars that are completely union made? I would guess that they want union wages without union prices, but maybe I am wrong.

[deziloooooo]

I found this comparison of teacher salaries, didn't get into the benefits...seems they are all over the place, naturally cost of living is a factor, the Dakotas , New England , New York. Seems New Englasnd as a area is the highest..i know I googled Florida, my state, it's ranked 26 out of 50, housing here now is pretty reasonable , it wasn't, and no income tax, yet there are big time cuts and layoffs planned as the stimulus goes away, over 100,000 teachers were saved by the stimulus $, now gone.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The most recent report included a list of teacher salaries by state. The state with the highest average teacher salary was Connecticut, at $57,760. California was a very close second, where the average teacher salary is $57,604. New Jersey teachers make approximately $56,635 per year. Rounding out the top five were Illinois and Rhode Island, with the average teacher salary at $56,494 and $56,432, respectively. The state with the lowest average teacher salary was South Dakota, at $34,039.

According to CBSalary.com, the average teacher salary by city was as follows:
•Springfield, IL – $48,015
•Chicago, IL – $53,713
•Atlanta, GA – $35,903
•Savannah, GA – $25,008
•Orlando, FL – $31,684
•Tampa, FL – $36,630
•Miami, FL – $34,501
Teacher salary also varies according to education level of the teacher. A teacher with a four year bachelor’s degree may make less than a teacher with a master’s degree. The ranges for teacher salary in Chicago, IL vary from $37,372 to $89,620. This wide range obviously incorporates education level and experience of a multitude of teachers. Teacher salary also depends on what school level or subject teachers specialize in. A secondary school teacher may make more than a primary school teacher. In Chicago, a primary school teacher makes approximately $44,480. A secondary school teacher makes about $4,000 more, or $48,180. The average mathematics teacher makes $38,211, while the average science teacher makes $62,391. These teachers may make up to $52,977 or $87,946, respectively. A history teacher at the secondary level makes $38,256. The highest reported income for a history teacher in Chicago is $53,106. These wide ranges include teachers in public and private institutions at a variety of experience levels
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[Deleted]

The only people in this world who are allowed to shrug are CEOs... apparently...

[ameiko]

Feb 19, 2011 21:39:47 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Feb 19, 2011 21:23:25 GMT -5 ameiko said:

Given that the Democrats and teachers are allies, standing shoulder to shoulder, in this endevour, heck yes! This would pressure the teachers and unions to pressure the Democrats to get back and do their jobs!

The fiscal conservatives won the election and if the teachers and unions don't like it, they should focus on the next one instead of being the party of no and impeding the process.

Now I am getting confused . I thought it was finally considered proper and acceptable , in fact something to be commended to be a party of NO. Now your saying it , a party of No, is a No, No?

Nothing wrong with voting "no." It's went you stop the entire process to throw a temper tantrum like a child that I have an issue. The Democrats need to put on their big boy pants and go to work, let the votes fall where they may, and let the people respond through peaceful and legal means.

[ameiko]

Feb 19, 2011 21:55:35 GMT -5 oped said:

The only people in this world who are allowed to shrug are CEOs... apparently...

CEO's are privately paid. These teachers are not. There is no link.

[deziloooooo]

Feb 20, 2011 0:26:26 GMT -5 ameiko said:

Feb 19, 2011 21:39:47 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Now I am getting confused . I thought it was finally considered proper and acceptable , in fact something to be commended to be a party of NO. Now your saying it , a party of No, is a No, No?

Nothing wrong with voting "no." It's went you stop the entire process to throw a temper tantrum like a child that I have an issue. The Democrats need to put on their big boy pants and go to work, let the votes fall where they may, and let the people respond through peaceful and legal means.

Possible there are times when a minority party, knowing they are a minority party but whose members too were elected to their position by a constituency that chose them over their opponents because they too have wants and desires and at least a chance to have them considered, heard.
When a majority party says to those who were elected , as they were by their constituents who want to be heard and at least considered to screw off , we are not listening to you, we care nothing for you or your constituents wants and desires , we need you not , so shut up, sit down and stay out of the way , your really not needed here or wanted.
Your here by sufference as are your constituents.

Well some times those members of that minority party might want to get away and mope for a week, a month, six months, a year....till they get it out of their system, I can see that, can't you?

[ameiko]

Well some times those members of that minority party might want to get away and mope for a week, a month, six months, a year....till they get it out of their system, I can see that, can't you?

Absolutely not. YOU DO YOUR JOB and that includes showing up to work, not crossing the border to anothe state.

Moping for a month, six months, a year? Are you serious? If you don't show up to work for a year, are you still expecting to have that job and be paid? If the Democrats don't show up at work, I say:

1. keep upping the percentages that the teachers will have to pay; it's their penalty for allying with the Democrats

2. investigate recall procedures on the legislators who refuse to come to work.

3. as soon as the state police fine one of those legislators, bring them to the legislature in chains and have the vote.

What you condone is simply disgraceful and childish; encouraging adults to act like children; no wonder our nation and its government is in the state it's in.

Hopefully Walker and others will stay strong and break the backs of these unions that are harming our children and ILLEGALLY striking. Also, suspend the license of any doctor who issues false doctor's notes to these teachers. I and many others are sick of this nonsense!

[Deleted]

The doctor notes handed out at the protest-- not even hiding, gave one to a FOX reporter-- and we saw it on TV. They checked out the doctor. Legit, from the university medical center there. Is that even legal? These people are very bold. But, Obama and his unions have their backs, so I guess they think they can strike illegally, refuse orders from the school district, produce false sick notes. Who gets away with that kind of behavior and keeps their job?? GREAT example for the kids.

[deziloooooo]

Feb 20, 2011 11:45:59 GMT -5 ameiko said:

Well some times those members of that minority party might want to get away and mope for a week, a month, six months, a year....till they get it out of their system, I can see that, can't you?

Absolutely not. YOU DO YOUR JOB and that includes showing up to work, not crossing the border to anothe state.

Moping for a month, six months, a year? Are you serious? If you don't show up to work for a year, are you still expecting to have that job and be paid? If the Democrats don't show up at work, I say:

1. keep upping the percentages that the teachers will have to pay; it's their penalty for allying with the Democrats

2. investigate recall procedures on the legislators who refuse to come to work.

3. as soon as the state police fine one of those legislators, bring them to the legislature in chains and have the vote.

What you condone is simply disgraceful and childish; encouraging adults to act like children; no wonder our nation and its government is in the state it's in.

Hopefully Walker and others will stay strong and break the backs of these unions that are harming our children and ILLEGALLY striking. Also, suspend the license of any doctor who issues false doctor's notes to these teachers. I and many others are sick of this nonsense!

Well Ameiko I can see your sense of humor is non existent , no going camping with me for a weekend.

"showing up to work, "..they are, they are showing up to demonstrate if their concerns and desires are not even considered, their constituents feelings , while not expecting to be agreed to but at least considered, are not to be discussed and where found merit also implimented, and there were parts that were , but because they came from "that side of the aisle" were dismissed out of hand,
to demonstrate that the legislature is to represent all people not just a select few, they are just working out of another place , that's all.
The place were they normally work out of, it didn't seem to be letting them get their message through, that their ideas should also be considered, possible this new working abode might get that point through to the Governor and his supporters. It is importnt to be heard and considered.

[vonnie6200]

Feb 20, 2011 12:12:21 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Feb 20, 2011 11:45:59 GMT -5 ameiko said:

Well some times those members of that minority party might want to get away and mope for a week, a month, six months, a year....till they get it out of their system, I can see that, can't you?

Absolutely not. YOU DO YOUR JOB and that includes showing up to work, not crossing the border to anothe state.

Moping for a month, six months, a year? Are you serious? If you don't show up to work for a year, are you still expecting to have that job and be paid? If the Democrats don't show up at work, I say:

1. keep upping the percentages that the teachers will have to pay; it's their penalty for allying with the Democrats

2. investigate recall procedures on the legislators who refuse to come to work.

3. as soon as the state police fine one of those legislators, bring them to the legislature in chains and have the vote.

What you condone is simply disgraceful and childish; encouraging adults to act like children; no wonder our nation and its government is in the state it's in.

Hopefully Walker and others will stay strong and break the backs of these unions that are harming our children and ILLEGALLY striking. Also, suspend the license of any doctor who issues false doctor's notes to these teachers. I and many others are sick of this nonsense!

Well Ameiko I can see your sense of humor is non existent , no going camping with me for a weekend.

"showing up to work, "..they are, they are showing up to demonstrate if their concerns and desires are not even considered, their constituents feelings , while not expecting to be agreed to but at least considered, are not to be discussed and where found merit also implimented, and there were parts that were , but because they came from "that side of the aisle" were dismissed out of hand,
to demonstrate that the legislature is to represent all people not just a select few, they are just working out of another place , that's all.
The place were they normally work out of, it didn't seem to be letting them get their message through, that their ideas should also be considered, possible this new working abode might get that point through to the Governor and his supporters. It is importnt to be heard and considered.

No they are just holding their collective breath - they know they do not have the votes so they are throwing a fit and keeping the state in turmoil

[rocketman]

The following quote came from one of the liberal's great heroes. Can you guess the author?

"All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management.
The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations.

Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees.

A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. "

[deziloooooo]

Feb 20, 2011 12:18:25 GMT -5 vonnie6200 said:

Feb 20, 2011 12:12:21 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Well Ameiko I can see your sense of humor is non existent , no going camping with me for a weekend.

"showing up to work, "..they are, they are showing up to demonstrate if their concerns and desires are not even considered, their constituents feelings , while not expecting to be agreed to but at least considered, are not to be discussed and where found merit also implimented, and there were parts that were , but because they came from "that side of the aisle" were dismissed out of hand,
to demonstrate that the legislature is to represent all people not just a select few, they are just working out of another place , that's all.
The place were they normally work out of, it didn't seem to be letting them get their message through, that their ideas should also be considered, possible this new working abode might get that point through to the Governor and his supporters. It is importnt to be heard and considered.

No they are just holding their collective breath - they know they do not have the votes so they are throwing a fit and keeping the state in turmoil

So if in the minority, their voice should not be heard and ideas considered...just go with the flow.

Carefull there, next time around..roles can be reversed.

Not sayiing they have to get there way, but to often, and here is a example, NO consideration given to their ideas and feelings.

They are, from what has been posted here , willing to go with two of the three planks of the majority and the Governor..the big one, the giving up of collective bargaining for ever, they seem to be having a hard time with, understandable, from this middle to thje left actually.

Yet it's our way or the highway from the majority/Governor...so they got in the cars and did what was asked of them..found the high way, out of town.

Now they are being criticicized for following the wants of the majority/ Governor.

Think the majority / Governor sending mixed messages here?

[b2r]

Feb 20, 2011 12:01:59 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

The doctor notes handed out at the protest-- not even hiding, gave one to a FOX reporter-- and we saw it on TV. They checked out the doctor. Legit, from the university medical center there. Is that even legal? These people are very bold. But, Obama and his unions have their backs, so I guess they think they can strike illegally, refuse orders from the school district, produce false sick notes. Who gets away with that kind of behavior and keeps their job?? GREAT example for the kids.

Andrew Breitbart Has Walker Pneumonia

[Deleted]

They don't have the votes... The governor may be safe for awhile, but representatives in over a year can be recalled...