deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 17, 2011 14:17:49 GMT -5
Well I guess if the teachers can do it so can the lawmakers... www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116381289.htmlMadison — Law enforcement is now searching for Democratic senators boycotting a Senate vote on Gov. Scott Walker's budget-repair plan Thursday in an attempt to bring the lawmakers to the floor to allow Republicans to move forward with action on the bill.
But one Democratic senator said that he believed all the members of his caucus are in another state.
Well that's one way to get more people to Chicago... right WCP? I believe that happened in Texas once...all went to Oklahoma...till some compromises were worked out...can't remember te exact time and reason...the other side had all the votes and were heeding none of the missing sides arguments no matter what so they all seemed to disappear.. Wonder if they are going to be escorted back under gun point or chains and shakles...
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floridayankee
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If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 17, 2011 14:19:48 GMT -5
Well I guess if the teachers can do it so can the lawmakers... www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116381289.htmlMadison — Law enforcement is now searching for Democratic senators boycotting a Senate vote on Gov. Scott Walker's budget-repair plan Thursday in an attempt to bring the lawmakers to the floor to allow Republicans to move forward with action on the bill.
But one Democratic senator said that he believed all the members of his caucus are in another state.
Well that's one way to get more people to Chicago... right WCP? Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller (D-Monona) released a statement calling on Republicans to listen to unions and protesters calling for changes to the bill, which would cut benefits and almost all union bargaining rights for public employees. I still wonder why public employees would need a union. I mean, this is the government they work for. The wonderfully efficient, benevolent government. The government that knows us better than we know ourselves. The champion of the little people. Our heros. Our saviors.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 17, 2011 14:38:56 GMT -5
Well I guess if the teachers can do it so can the lawmakers... www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116381289.htmlMadison — Law enforcement is now searching for Democratic senators boycotting a Senate vote on Gov. Scott Walker's budget-repair plan Thursday in an attempt to bring the lawmakers to the floor to allow Republicans to move forward with action on the bill.
But one Democratic senator said that he believed all the members of his caucus are in another state.
Well that's one way to get more people to Chicago... right WCP? Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller (D-Monona) released a statement calling on Republicans to listen to unions and protesters calling for changes to the bill, which would cut benefits and almost all union bargaining rights for public employees. I still wonder why public employees would need a union. I mean, this is the government they work for. The wonderfully efficient, benevolent government. The government that knows us better than we know ourselves. The champion of the little people. Our hero's. Our saviors. Just possible , in the near future as jobs increase but salary's and benefits stay low or non existent and many find them selves working true, but the companies who they are working for are profitable , very much so , they just might find that that archaic thing called unions, collective bargaining , really has some points to be considered. Not having a clue on what or how you earn a living, or possible friends, family members being affected, you too, just might have a change of heart. As Mom told me, never say never say never for ever, one never knows when it might come back to bite you on the arse. {Mom, bless her heart , had a earthy nature to her at times ;D}
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Feb 17, 2011 14:54:51 GMT -5
I only wish the Democrat California State Senators all took a long trip to Illinois, too.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Feb 17, 2011 15:17:03 GMT -5
I can't figure out why they keep saying the bill is taking away all union bargaining rights. They are taking the collective baganing rights away with respect to benefits. We can't negotiate our benefits in the private sector - your employer buys the plan as is from the insurer and that is what they offer you. The Wisconsin unions not only pay a very small % of benes, they also have virtually 100% coverage - prescriptions, no office visit co-pays can go to any facility etc. The Wisconsin Teachers Health insurance plan is probalby the most expensive plan in the nation. www.wpri.org/Reports/Volume18/Vol18no1.pdfThe following is a Quote from the above link from the Wisconsin Policy Research Institute: The results of this research show that the problem of health insurance costs in Wisconsin school districts is accelerating at an astonishing rate. The source of the problem is an archaic system where the teachers’ union insurance company, the Wisconsin Education Association Insurance Corporation, has a virtual monopoly on the health insurance written in 78% of the school districts in the state. The problem with this is that there is almost no bidding of contracts, and in fact, the teachers’ union itself has de facto veto power over any attempt to replace its insurance company in a school district. In contrast, the costs for the state’s health insurance policies, which are administered by the Employee Trust Funds (ETF), are growing at a much slower rate than the educational policies. In fact, it is estimated that, over the next year, the increases in the policies administered by ETF will increase only 5%. As educational health care becomes a billion dollar problem in Wisconsin, our view is that we need a drastic change. Without immediate action we will have to either raise taxes or continue to lay off younger teachers to have any chance of balancing our school district budgets. If competition were introduced, which would allow school districts to participate in the state health insurance program, the savings across the state would be over $100 million and allow 90% of the districts to lower their health benefit costs. If the savings were passed directly on to teachers, each teacher could receive an average annual increase of $1,448 without any additional money coming from taxpayers.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Feb 17, 2011 15:31:49 GMT -5
Why don't the democrats use the same tactic with this bill as they did with the Obamacare bill: Pass it then "tweak" it? A bunch of hypocritical bullshit artists...
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 17, 2011 15:39:46 GMT -5
The Republicans in WI are doing what Pelosi, Reed and Obama have been doing the last couple of years in Washington. Unfortunately just like the Democrats they now are in the wrong even if what their doing is right. This is not the way the process is supposed to work in a democracy.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Feb 17, 2011 16:28:45 GMT -5
Jeez Wisconsin must be electing a bunch of kids to office instead of a bunch of adults. I don't like spinich so I will go hide in the closet till the tough part of it is over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2011 17:25:39 GMT -5
They have been found across the Ill. border at a hotel/restaurant/bar. Why do we pay these people again?
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 17, 2011 17:59:20 GMT -5
Why not bargain in good faith? When I was in a union we gave up a lot of wages for benefits. Why is he afraid to sit at the table and negotiate? Now that I work for myself,I still have to negotiate for what I get paid.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2011 18:29:02 GMT -5
Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller (D-Monona) released a statement calling on Republicans to listen to unions and protesters calling for changes to the bill, which would cut benefits and almost all union bargaining rights for public employees. I still wonder why public employees would need a union. I mean, this is the government they work for. The wonderfully efficient, benevolent government. The government that knows us better than we know ourselves. The champion of the little people. Our hero's. Our saviors. Just possible , in the near future as jobs increase but salary's and benefits stay low or non existent and many find them selves working true, but the companies who they are working for are profitable , very much so , they just might find that that archaic thing called unions, collective bargaining , really has some points to be considered. Not having a clue on what or how you earn a living, or possible friends, family members being affected, you too, just might have a change of heart. As Mom told me, never say never say never for ever, one never knows when it might come back to bite you on the arse. {Mom, bless her heart , had a earthy nature to her at times ;D} I have a spouse that will be affected, which means I will also. I have friends that will be affected. I have family other than my spouse that will be affected. I have seen unions hurt the worker more than help the worker. I see them keep people on the job that should be let go. I also see people struggle to keep up with state and local taxes to the point they just can't afford to live here anymore. They leave. If the unions had negotiated in good faith up until this point, we wouldn't be here now. They didn't. These people are all replacable. My husband is, my friends are, just as I am in my private sector job. Maybe laying off thousands is preferrable. I'm now thinking he should just probably go ahead and do that.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 17, 2011 18:39:07 GMT -5
And that may be,but imo, he should have set out his "offer" at the table,not in the press and streets. Is he incapable of negotiation? What does he hope to accomplish with choosing this method? Riots?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2011 18:43:20 GMT -5
I agree. This wasn't a great way to go about things. I hope he rethinks that.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 17, 2011 18:46:20 GMT -5
Think he thought he would make a name for himself with the teaparty?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2011 18:49:52 GMT -5
I'm not sure , could be.
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upstatemom
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Post by upstatemom on Feb 17, 2011 18:53:25 GMT -5
They have been found across the Ill. border at a hotel/restaurant/bar. Why do we pay these people again? Chances are they are having the taxpayers pick up the tab when they leave the hotel/bar.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 17, 2011 18:59:53 GMT -5
Like politicians in Il. have to pay hotel or bar tabs...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2011 19:43:39 GMT -5
So, let's see here-- the DNC is busing in protesters, organizing the protests, Obama is coming down on the side of the Unions-- wow, Dems in action doing what they do best. Schools are SHUT down, KIDS are being bused in to protest, and all over having to pay a little more for their benefits. SO-- they were told it is this or 6,000 lay-offs, which the Gov said he does not want to do. What is wrong with these people?? Are they EXEMPT from the crappy economy because they are in unions??? Here in AZ we have had to CLOSE schools, raise taxes, all gov't workers have to take furlow days, cops and fire are 30% understaffed, and we are still in big trouble. Our teachers are having to buy art supplies, etc out of their own pockets now. Bunch of whiny brats in Wisconsin, sounds like. Not surprising when you look at the behavior of their elected leaders. Just think of all the people in Wisconsin, as in the entire country, that are unemployed, underemployed, and no end in sight-- and they have to listen to these clowns whine about paying in a few bucks more to their own insurance and pensions, which so many people do NOT have, even if they are working their butts off. Was putting the National Guard on standby a few days ago uncalled for?? No, I guess it was not. Disgusting display of refusing to pull together to save the state. If I was Gov. would cancel the entire thing and hand out those 6,000 pink slips to all those teachers that called in sick and are on TV with their STUDENTS!!! Great job radicalizing the public school kids- --union workers and DNC Organizing for America.
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ameiko
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Post by ameiko on Feb 17, 2011 20:13:15 GMT -5
The teachers have already shown how much they respect their students by closing down the school to protest instead of teaching those children.
Fire them and hire new ones.
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Loopdilou
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AKA Mrs. Dark Honor
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 17, 2011 20:31:33 GMT -5
*Ahem* They were willing to come to the table to discuss their pensions, but Walker is trying to push through some tax cuts etc and the only way he can pay for them (they didn't have a budget shortfall before he enacted the tax cuts) is by chopping the pensions. This is Walker's tea party wet dream agenda clashing with hard working Americans who are being threatened.
Their pensions they were willing to negotiate, they are not willing to negotiate on one of the basic tenets of unions - collective bargaining. The only thing the bill that Walker proposed does is get rid of collective bargaining so he can take a butcher knife to state workers on everything from basic pay to pensions.
Before you go insulting the unions, just remember that most of your rights as working people in the US are due to Unions.
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on Feb 17, 2011 20:36:31 GMT -5
I am impressed with all the elementary school children in the crowd. Especially the ones hold signs supporting unions. www.flickr.com/photos/althouse/5442708877/(Note the snow. Why doesn't a teacher advise this child he should have a coat on?)
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Loopdilou
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AKA Mrs. Dark Honor
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 17, 2011 21:06:35 GMT -5
Because it's Wisconsin - as long as it's over 5 degrees, they wear shorts and t-shirts
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blackliver
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Post by blackliver on Feb 17, 2011 21:49:13 GMT -5
I'm a thinkin', to quote jethro Bodine, that Scott is gonna do something, instead of talking. We are in a world of hurt here people. Like it or not, were' all gonna feel a lot of pain. Nothing against government workers, but most of them thought they got on the gravytrain when they got hired. Didn't blame them, happy for them. But nothing is cast in stone. Get over it & move on. Ever been self employed? It happens daily.
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on Feb 17, 2011 22:10:31 GMT -5
I disagree loop. Teachers never give up anything. If you ask, they fall back on their battle cry.
" IT"S FOR THE CHILDREN !!!!!"
This time, because they are on the wrong end of the situation, they are singing a new tune.
" Of course we are reasonable. You only had to ask."
I live in this Wisconsin and would love to see a Reagan moment. Tell the teachers to march their happy asses back in the school and get back to work. Your behavior between now and the end of this school year will determine if you have a job next year. A lot of people that work in the real world agree with me.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 17, 2011 22:19:28 GMT -5
I disagree loop. Teachers never give up anything. If you ask, they fall back on their battle cry. " IT"S FOR THE CHILDREN !!!!!" This time, because they are on the wrong end of the situation, they are singing a new tune. " Of course we are reasonable. You only had to ask." I live in this Wisconsin and would love to see a Reagan moment. Tell the teachers to march their happy asses back in the school and get back to work. Your behavior between now and the end of this school year will determine if you have a job next year. A lot of people that work in the real world agree with me. Interesting idea. Do the teachers work for the governor?
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on Feb 17, 2011 22:27:58 GMT -5
They both work for the Taxpayers sir. My taxes help to pay their wages. Schools in my city are closed because teachers are having a sick day and democratic legislators are missing in action on a work day. I am not allowed to walk off my job when I disagree with my co-workers. Why should the democrats? Tactics being used by the Governor are taken from Ms. Pelosi who gave a clinic on ramrodding during the health care debate. Bring the Democrats back in handcuffs. And give the teachers the ultimatum.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 17, 2011 22:30:19 GMT -5
They both work for the Taxpayers sir. My taxes help to pay their wages. Schools in my city are closed because teachers are having a sick day and democratic legislators are missing in action on a work day. I am not allowed to walk off my job when I disagree with my co-workers. Why should the democrats? Tactics being used by the Governor are taken from Ms. Pelosi who gave a clinic on ramrodding during the health care debate. Bring the Democrats back in handcuffs. And give the teachers the ultimatum. Does the governor have the power to do what you suggest?
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 17, 2011 22:40:56 GMT -5
Yes, your taxes pay their wages. However, they have these things called contracts which they expect to be respected. What Walker is trying to do is essentially say, "Oh, yah, that contract you signed when you took this job? I'm throwing it out and cutting your pay and your retirement, etc, because I've decided that I just don't want to pay you that much even if I can afford it.. I want to pay for something else instead." Now, those people who don't have unions would take it up the ass if their boss said this. Or they'd try to find a new job. But if there aren't any other jobs, they'd take it up the ass. What these people are saying is, "Wait, no, you promised us certain things and we expect you to live up to those promises. If the state is actually hurting, we'll be happy to work with you to come to an equitable arrangement that let's the state keep running, but we're not going to let you do it just because you feel like it." And, actually, you can walk off your job if you disagree with your coworkers - it just won't do you any good because you're not in a union
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 17, 2011 22:50:57 GMT -5
We are certainly going back in time to the days when conservatives were Conservatives. Divine Right of Governors?
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on Feb 17, 2011 23:03:27 GMT -5
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