Even tea party head Kochs opting off the stupid train

[EVT1]

nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/09/20886586-kochs-to-congress-focus-on-spending-not-obamacare?lite

Yes- even the nuts responsible for all of the Obamacare scare tactics and bullshit have reached a point with the shutdown and debt ceiling talks that they do not want to be associated with the fallout and prefer it doesn't happen.

I love it   They created and funded these mindless zombies and now they have turned on their masters. 

     A letter, signed by the company's chief lobbyist and sent to members of Congress, says that Koch Industries has taken no position on the shutdown dispute in Congress "nor have we lobbied on legislative provisions defunding Obamacare."

     Instead, Koch Industries wants Congress to focus on "balancing the budget" and "cutting government spending," among other goals, said Philip Ellender, Koch Industries president for government and public affairs.

     But privately, Koch officials have expressed concern to lawmakers that the prospect of a government default over the Obamacare issue would be a "disaster" for the economy, according to one GOP consultant who recently discussed the matter with Koch officials and asked for anonymity

Got your marching orders respected Tea Party members- what are you going to do?

[Deleted]

 The Koch machine bamboozled a bunch of patsies into carrying their water for them...
 ever see the "Sorcerer's Apprentice" segment of Disney's "Fantasia"?

[EVT1]

I know- I just don't get it now- freaking Blankfein (Goldman Sachs/Vampire Squid head honcho) and just about every group the GOP normally goes to bat for is getting the cold shoulder because of the tea party losers and the massive self-interest of the legislators on the right.  They are so scared that even hardcore right wingers are nervous that one bad move and they are out. Can't be 99% republican anymore- 100% or done.  Enjoy the incredible streak of losses you deserve . 

[Deleted]

Okay, this inspires me to ask how much the Koch brothers would lose if the American government defaults. I have seen a lot of clips of Republicans promising up and down that the government isn't going to default, which makes me wonder who they need to reassure. I would think if it wouldn't hurt the wealthy they would be promoting fear and terror amongst the middle and lower class, the Democratic base.

Would the "economic meltdown" have a bad effect on the Koch brother's net worth?

[Deleted]

 I doubt that any of the Koch brothers need ever fear starving to death. It is virtually certain that they have various caches and stashes to tide them through pretty much any catastrophe.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 9, 2013 21:14:39 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Okay, this inspires me to ask how much the Koch brothers would lose if the American government defaults. I have seen a lot of clips of Republicans promising up and down that the government isn't going to default, which makes me wonder who they need to reassure. I would think if it wouldn't hurt the wealthy they would be promoting fear and terror amongst the middle and lower class, the Democratic base.

Would the "economic meltdown" have a bad effect on the Koch brother's net worth?

of course.  it would also undermine GOP politics in 2014.

fact: if everything goes perfectly, the GOP could gain control of the Senate, and rewrite the filibuster rule.  they could then pretty much stop everything going on in DC.  the Koch brothers want that more than they want their billions.

fact: the government shutdown is an example of things going less than perfectly.

[djAdvocate]

here is what has them rattled:

www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/1009/Republicans-hit-all-time-low-in-Gallup-poll.-Is-shutdown-to-blame-video

The Republican Party is viewed favorably by only 28 percent of the American public, a 10-percentage-point drop in just the past month, according to the latest Gallup poll.

[Otto the Orange]

Oct 9, 2013 20:50:44 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/09/20886586-kochs-to-congress-focus-on-spending-not-obamacare?lite

Yes- even the nuts responsible for all of the Obamacare scare tactics and bullshit have reached a point with the shutdown and debt ceiling talks that they do not want to be associated with the fallout and prefer it doesn't happen.

I love it   They created and funded these mindless zombies and now they have turned on their masters. 

     A letter, signed by the company's chief lobbyist and sent to members of Congress, says that Koch Industries has taken no position on the shutdown dispute in Congress "nor have we lobbied on legislative provisions defunding Obamacare."

     Instead, Koch Industries wants Congress to focus on "balancing the budget" and "cutting government spending," among other goals, said Philip Ellender, Koch Industries president for government and public affairs.

     But privately, Koch officials have expressed concern to lawmakers that the prospect of a government default over the Obamacare issue would be a "disaster" for the economy, according to one GOP consultant who recently discussed the matter with Koch officials and asked for anonymity

Got your marching orders respected Tea Party members- what are you going to do?

why do you have to close with "respected Tea Party members"?

do you realize how hateful that makes you sound.....

[Shooby]

  Well, Obama's most recent approval rating is down to 37% lol so keep trying to demonize the tea party. 

[EVT1]

No one has to demonize them- they are doing a fine job of that themselves.

[mrsdutt]

It's my understanding that there can be no default. (14th amendment)  Just spending has to be altered to provide for the citizens.  I could be wrong, but this amendment is pretty clear.  If I am incorrect, please let me know.

[zibazinski]

Is really not the catastrophe they are making it out to be. In fact, one of the best things to happen. Spending will be cut down forcefully not just spend willy nilly like they have been. BOTH parties are guilty of tax and spend and I'm hoping BOTH parties don't agree so the chips will fall as they should. I bet not one of those idiots has clue as to what would really happen if they do default.

[Deleted]

what i want is a country back on the right track

we have been off it for so long, not sure if we can 

and you are right...both parties are to blame

maybe, just maybe this wakes people up to the nightmare we are facing

[djAdvocate]

Oct 10, 2013 6:20:10 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Well, Obama's most recent approval rating is down to 37% lol so keep trying to demonize the tea party. 

another 32% and he will be about where the TP is.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 10, 2013 9:54:39 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Is really not the catastrophe they are making it out to be. In fact, one of the best things to happen. Spending will be cut down forcefully not just spend willy nilly like they have been. BOTH parties are guilty of tax and spend and I'm hoping BOTH parties don't agree so the chips will fall as they should. I bet not one of those idiots has clue as to what would really happen if they do default.

no, spending will not be cut down forcefully.  yes, it is not a catastrophe, yet.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 10, 2013 8:44:13 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

It's my understanding that there can be no default. (14th amendment) 

my understanding is that the president would have to exert that authority, and he has said that he won't risk a constitutional fight over this, so i don't believe you are correct.

Just spending has to be altered to provide for the citizens.  I could be wrong, but this amendment is pretty clear.  If I am incorrect, please let me know.

it is not that clear.  it would go to court.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 10, 2013 10:46:54 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

what i want is a country back on the right track

we have been off it for so long, not sure if we can 

and you are right...both parties are to blame

maybe, just maybe this wakes people up to the nightmare we are facing

the deficit has fallen 50% in (4) years.  that seems like the right track to me.

[Sum Dum Gai]

The deficit shouldn't even be allowed to exist at all, unless we're attacked like we were at Pearl Harbor and need to temporarily run in the red while taxes are raised to offset the declaration of war. In pretty much any other scenario Congress shouldn't have a credit card.

[Deleted]

 The Tea partiers are angry that "O'Bammy" hasn't waved his Magic Wand and squeezed blood from a stone?

[EVT1]

Oct 9, 2013 23:53:02 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

here is what has them rattled:

www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/1009/Republicans-hit-all-time-low-in-Gallup-poll.-Is-shutdown-to-blame-video

The Republican Party is viewed favorably by only 28 percent of the American public, a 10-percentage-point drop in just the past month, according to the latest Gallup poll.

This can't help either- even worse numbers:

firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/10/20903624-nbcwsj-poll-shutdown-debate-damages-gop?lite

     By a 22-point margin (53 percent to 31 percent), the public blames the Republican Party more for the shutdown than President Barack Obama – a wider margin of blame for the GOP than the party received during the poll during the last shutdown in 1995-96.

     Just 24 percent of respondents have a favorable opinion about the GOP, and only 21 percent have a favorable view of the Tea Party, which are both at all-time lows in the history of poll.

     Yet what is perhaps even more worrisome for the GOP is the “boomerang” effect: As the party has used the shutdown and fiscal fight to campaign against the nation’s health-care law and for limited government, the poll shows those efforts have backfired.

      For one thing, the health-care law has become more popular since the shutdown began. Thirty-eight percent see the Affordable Care Act (or “Obamacare”) as a good idea, versus 43 percent who see it as a bad idea – up from 31 percent good idea, 44 percent bad idea last month.

     In addition, 50 percent say they oppose totally eliminating funding for the law, even if it that means a partial shutdown of the government. That’s up from 46 percent who said they opposed that move in a Sept. 2013 CNBC poll.

     Obama – with a 47 percent favorable, 41 percent unfavorable rating – also is the most popular political figure or institution in the poll, surpassing the Democratic Party (39 percent favorable/40 percent unfavorable); Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas (14 percent favorable/28 percent unfavorable); Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (18 percent favorable/32 percent unfavorable); and House Speaker John Boehner (17 percent favorable/42 percent unfavorable).

     At the bottom of the list are the Tea Party (21 percent favorable/47 percent unfavorable) and the Republican Party (24 percent favorable/53 percent unfavorable) – their lowest favorable numbers in the history of the poll.

     And 46 percent of respondents say the president, during this budget standoff, has been a strong leader and is standing up for what he believes in, versus 51 percent who believe he’s putting his own political agenda ahead of what’s good for the country.

    By comparison, a whopping 70 percent say congressional Republicans are putting politics first.

Keep it up! 

[djAdvocate]

Oct 10, 2013 20:01:29 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Oct 9, 2013 23:53:02 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

here is what has them rattled:

www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/1009/Republicans-hit-all-time-low-in-Gallup-poll.-Is-shutdown-to-blame-video

The Republican Party is viewed favorably by only 28 percent of the American public, a 10-percentage-point drop in just the past month, according to the latest Gallup poll.

This can't help either- even worse numbers:

firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/10/20903624-nbcwsj-poll-shutdown-debate-damages-gop?lite

     By a 22-point margin (53 percent to 31 percent), the public blames the Republican Party more for the shutdown than President Barack Obama – a wider margin of blame for the GOP than the party received during the poll during the last shutdown in 1995-96.

     Just 24 percent of respondents have a favorable opinion about the GOP, and only 21 percent have a favorable view of the Tea Party, which are both at all-time lows in the history of poll.

     Yet what is perhaps even more worrisome for the GOP is the “boomerang” effect: As the party has used the shutdown and fiscal fight to campaign against the nation’s health-care law and for limited government, the poll shows those efforts have backfired.

      For one thing, the health-care law has become more popular since the shutdown began. Thirty-eight percent see the Affordable Care Act (or “Obamacare”) as a good idea, versus 43 percent who see it as a bad idea – up from 31 percent good idea, 44 percent bad idea last month.

     In addition, 50 percent say they oppose totally eliminating funding for the law, even if it that means a partial shutdown of the government. That’s up from 46 percent who said they opposed that move in a Sept. 2013 CNBC poll.

     Obama – with a 47 percent favorable, 41 percent unfavorable rating – also is the most popular political figure or institution in the poll, surpassing the Democratic Party (39 percent favorable/40 percent unfavorable); Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas (14 percent favorable/28 percent unfavorable); Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (18 percent favorable/32 percent unfavorable); and House Speaker John Boehner (17 percent favorable/42 percent unfavorable).

     At the bottom of the list are the Tea Party (21 percent favorable/47 percent unfavorable) and the Republican Party (24 percent favorable/53 percent unfavorable) – their lowest favorable numbers in the history of the poll.

     And 46 percent of respondents say the president, during this budget standoff, has been a strong leader and is standing up for what he believes in, versus 51 percent who believe he’s putting his own political agenda ahead of what’s good for the country.

    By comparison, a whopping 70 percent say congressional Republicans are putting politics first.

Keep it up! 

keep it up and the Democrats will control both houses for the last (2) years Obama is in office.  if you think Obamacare was fun, just you wait. 

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2013 23:27:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Oct 10, 2013 20:01:29 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

This can't help either- even worse numbers:

firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/10/20903624-nbcwsj-poll-shutdown-debate-damages-gop?lite

     By a 22-point margin (53 percent to 31 percent), the public blames the Republican Party more for the shutdown than President Barack Obama – a wider margin of blame for the GOP than the party received during the poll during the last shutdown in 1995-96.

     Just 24 percent of respondents have a favorable opinion about the GOP, and only 21 percent have a favorable view of the Tea Party, which are both at all-time lows in the history of poll.

     Yet what is perhaps even more worrisome for the GOP is the “boomerang” effect: As the party has used the shutdown and fiscal fight to campaign against the nation’s health-care law and for limited government, the poll shows those efforts have backfired.

      For one thing, the health-care law has become more popular since the shutdown began. Thirty-eight percent see the Affordable Care Act (or “Obamacare”) as a good idea, versus 43 percent who see it as a bad idea – up from 31 percent good idea, 44 percent bad idea last month.

     In addition, 50 percent say they oppose totally eliminating funding for the law, even if it that means a partial shutdown of the government. That’s up from 46 percent who said they opposed that move in a Sept. 2013 CNBC poll.

     Obama – with a 47 percent favorable, 41 percent unfavorable rating – also is the most popular political figure or institution in the poll, surpassing the Democratic Party (39 percent favorable/40 percent unfavorable); Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas (14 percent favorable/28 percent unfavorable); Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (18 percent favorable/32 percent unfavorable); and House Speaker John Boehner (17 percent favorable/42 percent unfavorable).

     At the bottom of the list are the Tea Party (21 percent favorable/47 percent unfavorable) and the Republican Party (24 percent favorable/53 percent unfavorable) – their lowest favorable numbers in the history of the poll.

     And 46 percent of respondents say the president, during this budget standoff, has been a strong leader and is standing up for what he believes in, versus 51 percent who believe he’s putting his own political agenda ahead of what’s good for the country.

    By comparison, a whopping 70 percent say congressional Republicans are putting politics first.

Keep it up! 

keep it up and the Democrats will control both houses for the last (2) years Obama is in office.  if you think Obamacare was fun, just you wait. 

An NBC poll ?

[djAdvocate]

Oct 11, 2013 11:14:51 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Oct 10, 2013 23:27:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

keep it up and the Democrats will control both houses for the last (2) years Obama is in office.  if you think Obamacare was fun, just you wait. 

An NBC poll ?

no.  and NBC/WSJ poll, bro.  you are not insinuating that the poll is biased, are you?

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2013 11:40:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Oct 11, 2013 11:14:51 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

An NBC poll ?

no.  and NBC/WSJ poll, bro.  you are not insinuating that the poll is biased, are you?

I would never insinuate that a NBC/WSJ poll is biased. They are the paradigm of balanced coverage.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 11, 2013 11:51:06 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Oct 11, 2013 11:40:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

no.  and NBC/WSJ poll, bro.  you are not insinuating that the poll is biased, are you?

I would never insinuate that a NBC/WSJ poll is biased. They are the paradigm of balanced coverage.

coverage is irrelevant.  and bias is the enemy of polling.  the best way to make yourself irrelevant is to ignore the data, or fashion it to fit your agenda.  this is why many people simply ignore Rasmussen at this point.  their polling is so far off the mark, it is laughable.

actually, if you want to drop the sarcasm for a minute, i have serious doubts about Gallup.  in the runup to the presidential election, Gallup showed Romney leading.  he never lead.  it was polling error.  it was polling error due to a change that Gallup made in how they tabulated just a couple of months before the election.  they shifted their weighting, and they were dead wrong.  they let the spin machines, and critics like you, get to them, rather than sticking to their guns, and running with the data and weighting they have always used.

i am not sure whether they corrected that or not, but i will say this: i trust the NBC/WSJ poll far more than Gallup poll.

[djAdvocate]

for anyone else that shares the perspective that this is a "push poll" (skewing data to MOVE opinion, rather than report it), i will say two things

1) i believe that the NBC/WSJ poll is accurate within error
2) if you do NOT, then post your proof, not your "feelings".  i have run out of patience for the latter.

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2013 12:00:43 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

for anyone else that shares the perspective that this is a "push poll" (skewing data to MOVE opinion, rather than report it), i will say two things

1) i believe that the NBC/WSJ poll is accurate within error
2) if you do NOT, then post your proof, not your "feelings".  i have run out of patience for the latter.

Your item #1 starts with "I believe". Your item #2 requires "proof" of an opposing view. Someones patience (or intolerance by context) is irrelevant here.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 11, 2013 12:22:30 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Oct 11, 2013 12:00:43 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

for anyone else that shares the perspective that this is a "push poll" (skewing data to MOVE opinion, rather than report it), i will say two things

1) i believe that the NBC/WSJ poll is accurate within error
2) if you do NOT, then post your proof, not your "feelings".  i have run out of patience for the latter.

Your item #1 starts with "I believe".

that is correct.  i also believe that the sun is made mostly of Hydrogen.  nothing is 100% certain, however, according to Heisenberg.

Your item #2 requires "proof" of an opposing view. Someones patience (or intolerance by context) is irrelevant here.

got me.  i have a genetic distaste and zero tolerance for willful ignorance in the digital age.

[djAdvocate]

my point is simply this: how polling works is very well established.  to imply, as you did, or state, as Ted Cruz did, that this poll is biased because NBC commissioned it not only shows a profound lack of understanding of how polling works, but it is also a illogical "guilt by association" ad hominem.

what makes the ad hominem funny is that Rupert Murdoch's WSJ also commissioned this poll. 

[Deleted]

My point was supposed to be that NBC is still making an issue when the numbers are favorable for the Democrat point of view.  There is little or no coverage from that outlet when the numbers are reversed.  Kind of like Fox in reverse.