Otto the Orange
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Go Orange!
Joined: Aug 23, 2012 4:20:52 GMT -5
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 14:08:20 GMT -5
Post by Otto the Orange on Aug 21, 2013 14:08:20 GMT -5
I stumped this cashier with math today. I purchased something that came to $3.25. All I had was a $5 bill and coins. So I handed him the $5 Bill and said "wait a minute, I have 25 cents in my pocket too" The cashier was like " but sir, its only $3.25" It took me like 5 minutes to explain to him that it would be easier if he took the 25 cents too---this way he could give me back and even $2 vs. $1 and 3 quarters and whatever......... Must have been using a hand cranked cash register not to be able to make change these days No the guy just couldn't figure out that I was actually making it easier. He kept saying "you're giving me too much money" and things like that
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 0:14:53 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 14:09:24 GMT -5
I stumped this cashier with math today. I purchased something that came to $3.25. All I had was a $5 bill and coins. So I handed him the $5 Bill and said "wait a minute, I have 25 cents in my pocket too" The cashier was like " but sir, its only $3.25" It took me like 5 minutes to explain to him that it would be easier if he took the 25 cents too---this way he could give me back and even $2 vs. $1 and 3 quarters and whatever......... If you had just let him give you the change the register told him to give you you could have had those 5 minutes of you life back.
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 0:14:53 GMT -5
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 14:16:25 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 14:16:25 GMT -5
I'm an actuary so the Math I studied got pretty fancy, including Advanced Calculus and Linear Algebra, as well as Probability and Statistics.
I don't use complex math in my day-to-day work but it really helps to be able to understand how factors in our models interact- that if this variable is understated, the impact on your bottom line will be X. I also have a wonderful time sorting through tons of data and finding meaningful ways to graph the results so non-mathematical people will understand it. We do have people in this field who do rocket-scientist stuff every day but I'm not one of them.
The most useful math I ever studied was compound interest and I am VERY thankful for that. It helps in understanding how my investments are doing and where we'll be in 5 years financially. I also understand mortgage and car financing math, whcih keeps me from making stupid decisions. Example: I got a letter telling me we could save $X/month on our mortgage if we refinanced at a rate of Y%. OK, I know that two reasons the payment would go down woudl be that we're starting the clock ticking again at 15 years (we refied 2 years ago) and we're financinag a lower balance since we've paid off some principal. To get an apples-to-apples comparison I opened up my mortgage spreadsheet and checked what the payment on our current mortagge would have been the day we took it out using that rate. The monthly payment was $20 less. No deal.
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spartan7886
Familiar Member
Joined: Jan 7, 2011 14:04:22 GMT -5
Posts: 788
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 14:18:56 GMT -5
Post by spartan7886 on Aug 21, 2013 14:18:56 GMT -5
I'm an engineer. I don't do much hard math, but I do a fair amount of complicated math with a fair number of steps, even if all the steps are individually easy. I sure don't use that Calc II I took in college except maybe conceptually understanding physics better.
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lurkyloo
Junior Associate
“Time means nothing now,” said Toad. “It is just the thing that happens between snacks.”
Joined: Jan 8, 2011 11:26:56 GMT -5
Posts: 6,049
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 14:21:20 GMT -5
Post by lurkyloo on Aug 21, 2013 14:21:20 GMT -5
Went up through diffy q's here. The lines started getting blurred after that; I think quantum and E&M and neuroscience taught some math (e.g. Fourier transforms) to be able to understand the material. The year before I think was technically called calculus but included things like matrix algebra and force field calculations, which seem like they ought to be classified as something else. Oh, and there was a class past the differential equations and I don't even remember what it was called--it covered a lot with imaginary numbers and modeling around poles/singularities. In my daily life and work I'm rarely called upon to do much more than algebra--but I'm one of the few who can rise to the occasion when called on. I'm good at math when I pay attention but impatient and easily bored so I really hated all the theoretical proof stuff. I am however awesome at story problems, which fits nicely with the whole scientist thing.
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 14:23:23 GMT -5
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 21, 2013 14:23:23 GMT -5
Yes, I use a lot of math in my job. In college, 2 semesters of Calculus was required and it was the same entry level course that Math majors had to take. I use waaay more statistics and I have had more statistics classes than I can count.
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Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 14:35:08 GMT -5
Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 21, 2013 14:35:08 GMT -5
The irony is that neither of these errors is mathematical. They're conceptual errors. In the first case, the employee believed concentrations to be additive, which is obviously not the case. But his/her arithmetic is correct. In the second case, the coworker mistakenly believed the number in the name of a vitamin represented a dosage. But again his/her arithmetic is correct. It's the same issue with the old joke about 2 + 2 = 22, where '+' is "mistakenly" treated as concatenation rather than addition. But it turns out that '+' represents concatenation in many programming languages. If you instruct the computer to print out "2 + 2 = " + 2 + 2, it will give you 2 + 2 = 22. Not a mathematical error but a conceptual one. No, the irony is that someone who is so educated is a complete and utter moron. You don't have to be a moron. Just conceptually mistaken. My father (a chemical engineer) recalled a time when a senior engineer in his company--well respected, very intelligent--made a fool of himself claiming that airplane tires contained nitrogen in order to slow their rate of deflation in the event of a tire puncture. He'd somehow gotten it into his head that the nitrogen in the atmosphere would 'repel' leaking nitrogen from the tire. Needless to say, his reasoning was painfully wrong and everybody in the meeting was just gritting their teeth for sake of embarrassment. But he was putatively a competent senior engineer. He'd just gotten an idea into his head, never given it any critical thought, and never had it challenged by anybody up until that point.
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movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,385
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 14:50:11 GMT -5
Post by movingforward on Aug 21, 2013 14:50:11 GMT -5
Yesterday I had to try to explain to one of our employees that adding a drum of 18% acid to a tank and then another drum of 18% acid did not make 36% acid. DUH!! My SIL is a nurse. She had to explain to one of her coworkers that they were out of Vitamin B12, and giving 2 Vitamin B6's was not an appropriate substitution. That is actually sad but can't help but LOL
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jeffreymo
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Joined: Jan 21, 2011 12:32:17 GMT -5
Posts: 969
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 14:53:38 GMT -5
Post by jeffreymo on Aug 21, 2013 14:53:38 GMT -5
I use it all the time. There is some accounting to my job, and I've done alot of account reconciliations and P&L review. While most of accounting is placing amounts into the right bucket, being able to do addition/subtraction/estimation in my head is helpful when figuring out if someone put something into the wrong bucket. Right now I handle payroll taxes and much of it is percentage base, and I can eyeball most figures and tell right away if it's in the ballpark.
I chose the math series for engineers even though I was a business major so that I would have options if I changed majors. For a business degree, I basically tested into the 2nd to last class. I got those out of the way quickly and they mostly seemed like a review of stuff I covered my senior year of High School - mostly college level trig and calculus.
ETA: I love it when W2 season comes around. 10% of our employees do not know how to use Turbotax properly. We get calls all the time saying that the SS we withheld is incorrect and we must refund the employee. I eventually figured out that the employee is entering the wrong box amount when they're prompted to enter SS wages.
After arguing with them about how they fat fingered a number, I do a quick algebraic formula based on the supposed "refund" amount TT told them they were to get in order to tell them the exact error - like they moved the decimal point or used box 1 wages instead of box 3. I think it's simple, but most others in my area can't comprehend it when I explain it to them.
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,617
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 15:00:49 GMT -5
Post by swamp on Aug 21, 2013 15:00:49 GMT -5
I took AP Calculus in high school. I can honestly say I have never used it. Once in a while I use Geometry for coming up with real property descriptions, but that about as advanced as I get.
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vonna
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Joined: Aug 11, 2012 15:58:51 GMT -5
Posts: 1,249
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 15:42:54 GMT -5
Post by vonna on Aug 21, 2013 15:42:54 GMT -5
Perhaps this is a dumb question/topic, since one would assume being a money message board, everyone would have at least a passing knowledge/use for math, but I'll go ahead and post the topic. Do you use math in your job? What about your life in general? Growing up, the general idea, even promoted by some educators, was that you won't really be using math in "real life." Has that been the case for you? If you do use math in your job/life, how do you use it and what kind of math do you use? Furthermore, to sate my curiosity, what level of math did you "stop" at as far as formal education? And do you think you're good at math? my name is vonna, and I am a total math geek. I have both a B.S. and M.S. in Math. I used it all the time in the beginning of my career as a math instructor -- but only taught through elementary calculus and some very simple differentiations. I got to do some statistical modelling while serving in a staff tour. That was fun for me. I have taught an occasional math course at a local university since retiring from the military, highest level being college algebra so far. I enjoy teaching, but value my time too much to do it very often. I have also forgotten SO much when it comes to upper level math. I taught an SAT math prep course at a private school. I didn't like that environment at all, lets see, how should I put this --- it was a very privileged group? I also tutor at the opposite extreme -- GED math for high school drop outs. I really enjoy working with that group. The most challenging course in college for me was "Orthogonal Functions and Boundary Value Problems." I somehow made a B in that course, but never felt like I understood what was going on. And, yes, phoenix. I think I am good at math!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 21, 2013 15:48:03 GMT -5
"Orthogonal Functions and Boundary Value Problems."
Sounds painful
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 0:14:53 GMT -5
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 16:00:48 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 16:00:48 GMT -5
I've heard only 30% of people use math in their job on a daily basis, and the other 80% don't. I don't use math in mine . The half man, half bear, half pig agrees with you.
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svwashout
Established Member
Joined: May 22, 2011 12:41:13 GMT -5
Posts: 382
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 16:50:09 GMT -5
Post by svwashout on Aug 21, 2013 16:50:09 GMT -5
For me it's been hit and miss. Most topics of my school curriculum rarely appeared in real life, while others I found to be very useful many times over the years. Tensor calculus I used only once, as a new hire I was doing structural resonance modeling on a system whose pieces were simple enough to solve in closed form. Nowadays these kinds of problems go straight into computational finite element modeling whether the classical methods we spent so much time and effort learning can work or not. It's just another dinosaur like long division.
The most useful part that I wish I had taken far more course background in has been statistics. If anything the rapid rise of computer technology has amplified the need for this kind of expertise I think. And I got way more mileage out of convolution integrals than I expected, even though the rest of my Laplace transforms course I've yet to see in real life. I guess for me the common thread has been the math that allows us to interpret a narrative out of a mountain of data has been the most useful, while clever solutions to crisply defined and well posed problems are of little practical value.
If I had worked in modern finance instead of engineering, maybe I would have used more of the calculus that I learned in school. I imagine quants need to have this background to understand their models-- for example look at Black-Scholes or the Greeks in Wiki to see partial differential equations in action. Or maybe like the rocket scientists of an earlier generation they may be fine blowing up the world without knowing what they're doing.
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 0:14:53 GMT -5
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 17:48:53 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 17:48:53 GMT -5
I'm going through this with Bio now. ( have I mentioned bio? ) ... I took it in high school and college and apparently don't remember a stinking thing... And manage to live a perfectly successful life without it ... So deciding what I think the kids should know is a challenge.
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Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 18:00:54 GMT -5
Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 21, 2013 18:00:54 GMT -5
Long division isn't taught because it's the most efficient way to divide. It's taught because it's one of the earliest and simplest examples of a numeric algorithm that kids are exposed to. It helps to establish numeracy, sequential logic, form, syntax, and the conceptual differences between numbers, digits, and numerals.
When we compute 10,920 ÷ 1,108 on our calculator and get the outcome 50.5, our exposure to long division gives us the ability to immediately recognize this isn't a reasonable outcome.
Hand-computed arithmetic may not be the most useful tool in a post-calculator world, but it's certainly one of the simplest and most foundational mathematical topics, and you're dreaming if you think kids can jump straightaway into more abstract topics because calculators can take care of basic arithmetic.
That may not have been the point you were trying to make, but let's consider the broader lessons in learning long division before we call it a "dinosaur".
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Otto the Orange
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Go Orange!
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Post by Otto the Orange on Aug 21, 2013 19:59:13 GMT -5
I've known people who are so called college educated that couldn't solve a simple density equation.that's because most people are dense badda bing!
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Regis
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Joined: Dec 27, 2010 12:26:50 GMT -5
Posts: 1,415
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 20:45:57 GMT -5
Post by Regis on Aug 21, 2013 20:45:57 GMT -5
I'm an engineer and a land surveyor. Surprisingly, while most people believe surveying is all about measuring and numbers, I use waaaaay more math on the engineering side. Surveying is actually more based in law.
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Cookies Galore
Senior Associate
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 18:08:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,891
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 20:46:01 GMT -5
Post by Cookies Galore on Aug 21, 2013 20:46:01 GMT -5
I'm a wanna-be math nerd. I find all the theoretical/statistical/whatever stuff interesting, but ask me 2 + 2 and I freeze for a second. I do a lot of unit conversion in my work. We have a program that does all of our SI unit conversions for us, but sometimes we notice that some lab vals are missing on our questions and it's easiest to just do the conversion by hand than run the conversion program.
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 0:14:53 GMT -5
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Math
Aug 21, 2013 23:00:15 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 23:00:15 GMT -5
Math education up through Advanced Differential Equations.
I do statistical analysis in my job, so use a fair amount of math but not much calculus. I occasionally write mathematical equations for System front ends (forecasting/planning) and that is more complex math to pick up trending or erratic patterns of demand. My statistics book is the only math book I kept from university & still use.
I do a lot of analysis in Excel and write those formulas myself.
I consider myself good at math, but I will use a calculator (or excel) to do any add/subtract/multiply/divide operations I have to do. The numbers have to be right, so no room for error or I will cost the company a lot of money.
The only time I used calculus was related to optical engineering & I enjoyed that, however it was not my career path, so didn't go anywhere with it. I did find it challenging but cool to actually see an application for the advanced math.
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ginpin
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 11:07:19 GMT -5
Posts: 331
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Math
Aug 22, 2013 8:03:23 GMT -5
Post by ginpin on Aug 22, 2013 8:03:23 GMT -5
I hate math. I do inside sales, so I have to mark things up, discount things, calculate square inches and footage, English to metric and vice versa, and know formulas to calculate the weights of the products I sell. This is mostly simple arithmetic, but I still hate it.
My dad always swore I would use math everyday, and he was right.
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