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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 13:13:44 GMT -5
As I've mentioned before, this apt is actually half of a tiny house. Yesterday the owners of the other half asked us if we would meet them there this afternoon to empty out the shared storage space, since it was full, despite the fact that neither of us currently have any tenants.
I was NOT thrilled about spending our Sunday afternoon doing that, but of course we said yes. We met them there at 3:30. We threw out an old TV, an old suitcase, a mini-fridge (theirs, they took it home), two bed bases, a tent, and a bunch of other Stuff. Usually only one of us has an empty apt at a time, so we automatically assume that the Stuff in the shared storage space belongs to the other person's tenant, and leave it there.
We left two sets of empty wooden shelves, one per apt. I cleaned them while S cleaned the floor. We put our respective tiles on the bottom shelves. We also left a ladder, a huge can of white paint, and the original metal wooden shutters (neither apt uses them but we are legally obliged to provide them if we sell). Everything else is GONE!
In other news, the painters started working on our apt late last week, it's coming along quickly, I think it should be ready at the end of this week at the latest. Fingers crossed!
We also trimmed the overgrown bushes in front of both our apts. All four of us went, so the whole thing took us exactly 2 hours.
Two hours very well-spent! We also learned that they charge 150e more in rent than we do. Food for thought ...
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 6, 2013 16:31:07 GMT -5
...:::"I SO want to change my nic to "IHateRentals"! Gowron, please take note lol!":::... But it won't happen to me! I won't get fleas, or prostitutes. My perfect military tenants will pay above market rate on the due date every month, and they'll fix it up themselves for free! La la la la la la la la la la. OK, in all seriousness, I don't see European rentals in my future. Things probably would have gone a bit differently in America. Nevertheless, I do get that anything can happen. At the same time, if one finds the right property at the right price, it can definitely add a lot to your bottom line.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 16:33:34 GMT -5
Debt,
Have they had as many "charming" tenants as you? Do they use an agent or do they rent it out themselves?
Did they bring up buying your half again?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 16:35:40 GMT -5
...:::"I SO want to change my nic to "IHateRentals"! Gowron, please take note lol!":::... But it won't happen to me! I won't get fleas, or prostitutes. My perfect military tenants will pay above market rate on the due date every month, and they'll fix it up themselves for free! La la la la la la la la la la. OK, in all seriousness, I don't see European rentals in my future. Things probably would have gone a bit differently in America. Nevertheless, I do get that anything can happen. At the same time, if one finds the right property at the right price, it can definitely add a lot to your bottom line. LOL, you won't have Debt's problems but you're bound to have some of your own. It only take about a year to get over the pain!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 17:27:31 GMT -5
Hi Bonny! No, they aren't not interested in our half anymore. I don't know the details but apparently the DH inherited part of his late dad's apt in Paris recently, and I'm guessing he also inherited some cash and used it to buy a sibling out. He also mentioned that his wife (the original owner) is too over-leveraged right now. But in any case, they are not interested anymore. They have also changed their minds and decided they do not want to retire to reversed accomodation (they originally wanted to buy our half so they could turn it into one place and retire there.)
They rent it out themselves and for years they have had better luck than we have. But their last tenants did some damage, and they are currently having trouble finding good renters. They listed the apt as soon as the former renters moved out, without realizing the apt had been damaged (per them, I have no details). Then they got the painters in, but they are both crazy busy at work so they can't show it in a timely fashion. So now they tell prospective tenants, thanks for calling, we can show it to you in a week, and the better tenants back out / find something else by then.
For ONCE I feel that we are at an advantage by using an agency! I KNOW I would totally lose it if I had to rush over there constantly during a week when I have 100 papers to mark, so for now, I prefer to keep the agency.
We also talked about the fact that renting both halves at the same time would be meaningless, but that if we both decide to sell at some point, it would definitely be an advantage to sell both halves at the same time. And we both had EXACTLY the same price in mind (200K euros for each half). And the DH knew all the details about the new / current CGT laws (as I do), whereas both his wife and DH are clueless about those. That was definitely reassuring to me!
These people aren't "friends", but we both seem to be on the same wavelength, and we keep in touch.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 20:09:46 GMT -5
We just CANNOT manage to find renters for our rental. We are giving it one more week, and if nothing happens by then, we are putting it up for sale.
It is adorable, half of a house. But it is NOT your run-of-the-mill rental. It has "reversed accommodation", so the LR / kitchen is ground floor, and the bedroom / bathroom is half-basement, with a large light well. That is NOT to everybody's taste, which I knew from Day 1, when we bought it 10 years ago. DH said, oh, it would have been my perfect "bachelor pad"! And I told him, I wouldn't live there, partially underground, if you paid me.
So no rent for 3.5 months now (one month was covered by the security deposit, and two months were spent dealing with insurance and fixing it up again). So it's true we've been REALLY working on it for just two weeks. We have gotten tons of responses to our ad, but once the people who can afford it visit, they seem to opt out. I feared that would happen, DH didn't. So now he is depressed about it.
There were three more visits today, so maybe we'll get good news from the agent tomorrow. But if we don't rent it by next week, we're probably putting it up for sale.
We MAY hang on till Dec, at which point I'll be on a much-reduced schedule, and I'll try again. That's what the neighbors do, they don't use an agent. I KNOW we should do that too, but there's just always too much going on, and we live further away than they do. DH can't really handle the visits, I'm working well more than FT, and DH is scheduled for more surgery on 21 Nov.
Something has got to give. Fingers crossed that we get it rented soon.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 20:21:00 GMT -5
Debt,
Does your insurance cover some of that lost rent while you were negotiating with the insurance co?
Ouch, 3.5 month hurts. What about lowering the rent? I know this is a sucky time to be trying to rent something...hey here's a wild idea...would it work for DD?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 20:26:56 GMT -5
Bonny, not in this case.
It did / does when there are renters who are not paying, but not when the renter has left and the insurance / building management co / contractor is taking too long.
You will be pleased to know that we have not yet resorted to eating or feeding our kids cat food LOL!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 20:34:21 GMT -5
Ouch, 3.5 month hurts. What about lowering the rent? I know this is a sucky time to be trying to rent something...hey
We were PO'd because the other owners rented at 1000e and we are renting at 885e. Hahaha!!!
here's a wild idea...would it work for DD?
Not such a wild idea at all! We considered it, told DD, she said she wouldn't live there either. Today on the train she changed her mind, and WE said no.
There are a few issues: although the immediate neighborhood is safe, the metro line goes onto places (just two or three stops further) that are NOT safe. DD sometimes works late shifts at the school restaurant, we would NOT want her taking that metro line at 1 am, for sure.
It's also a place that is for a person, or a couple. If she shared it, it would mean two girls sharing the same room, or one in the LR (open plan onto the kitchen) and one in the bedroom, near the bathroom. So, the girl in the bedroom would disturb the girl upstairs if she wanted to get something from the kitchen, and the girl in the LR would disturb the girl downstairs if she wanted to go to the bathroom. NOT ideal.
Plus, after sharing a bedroom for six months, DD absolutely refuses to share a bedroom, which I totally understand. She says she is happy to be at home with her bunny and her own bedroom. You may remember that in Carmel the 3 of them rented a two-bedroom, and since it was two girls and one guy, DD and the other girl shared a bedroom while the guy had his own room.
The apt is ideal for one person or for a couple, but not for two roommates. If it were, we would opt for that solution, we would be OK with just half the rent, but we are NOT ok with NONE of it. Plus it's only four metro stops for DD's school.
ETA: The other issue is that there is a 25% tax break on CGT, from sales between summer 2013 and summer 2014. If we sell we would need to take advantage of that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 23:42:48 GMT -5
@debthaven2, did the CGT change in Sept as you thought? And is the other half house rented yet or are they still having problems with getting a renter?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 20:29:40 GMT -5
OK, the straw that broke the camel's back: the PM told us yesterday that while showing the apt, she saw there is more water damage due to a crack on an outside wall in the lightwell. (It has been POURING here, for days.) We have opted NOT to go through insurance again, because the contractor is still there finishing the kitchen, and we do not want to wait for another 2-3 months for the insurance procedure. The damage is slight, the crack is small, they will fix both.
But, it was the proverbial last straw, DH has finally decided he wants to sell this place, yesterday. That makes me laugh, sort of. I dealt with it for 9.5 years, through months of unpaid rent and the 34K smash-up, and DH has been dealing with it for nearly six months, and 2K in water damage, but stick a fork in him, he's done. Whatever.
As Bonny pointed out (by email), it is NOT a great time of year to sell. But, it is the time of year we bought it, so maybe there will be some karmic return?!
I have literally not had the time to call the PM and tell her we have decided to sell. I will do that tomorrow. Or perhaps even Saturday, when I know she has scheduled the next appts for potential renters.
It is such a shame, it is a lovely, adorable, 1BR apt. But it's not in the center of town, it's reversed accomodation, it's not your typical, "vanilla" 1BR apt.
To answer recent questions:
Yes, Bonny, they did change the laws. Ironically they will only be voted in in Dec, but they are already retroactive to Sept 1 2013 and the 25% CGT tax break goes till Aug 30 2014. Please don't ask me to explain that, how a law that hasn't even yet been voted is officially retroactive lol. But the retroactivity is indeed official, so obviously the law will be voted in in Dec.
Rukh, good questions. The plan was indeed to use the rent from this place for DS3's college tuition, and then our retirement. If we sell instead (and we MIGHT change our minds if the PM finds a fantastic tenant by Sat, or even Tues, when the ad is over), there are a lot of options for that money: save it, fix up our house, pay off the other rental in my signature, buy another rental (perhaps even a small vacation rental that we could use and enjoy).
We could do several of those things but obviously not all of them. We also still owe 22.4K on the mortgage, and probably another 1K to fix it up beyond what insurance is paying.
Of course at this point I'm thinking if we are having a hard time renting it, we will have a hard time selling it too. The PM says that's not necessarily true, but only time wlll tell.
By the way, this (family-run) agency both manages and sells RE. The property manager runs the PM office, and her mom and runs the sales office next door, and employs her DH.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 10:35:08 GMT -5
Debt, Are you able to secure a line of credit to tide you over (through the repairs and the vacancy)? Did your DH ever get his settlement from the accident? It's been no secret (meaning I mentioned it in past YM posts) that I've been concerned about your cash-flow situation but at this risk of driving you crazy I wonder if now is really the time to throw in the towel. Are you better off lowering the rent for a six month lease and putting the place on the market in Spring? Just exploring options here. You've got a lot of equity in this place and I hate to see you take a big discount over a speed bump. FWIW, DH couldn't deal with property management stuff either. He's not allowed to talk to the tenants after he told the woman who rented our AZ house that he intended to die in the media room. I only allow him to be consulted on technical issues. ETA: And one last question, was the house originally set up as reversed accommodation or did that happen as a result of splitting the house into two units?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 17:46:24 GMT -5
Are you able to secure a line of credit to tide you over (through the repairs and the vacancy)?
Yes, we have a LOC. So far so good (we do have savings), but at some point we may well need to use the LOC.
Did your DH ever get his settlement from the accident?
No, it has been automatically put off for at least six months, because DH is having more surgery on Thurs. He may get another interim settlement, but there is a min of 6 mo after the last surgery before a final settlement. That would bring us to late May, and we know how much gets done here in summer.
The reversed accomodation has nothing to do with it being split into two units, as far as I know.
The agency told us they think we can sell it for 180K. If we do, it will have doubled in value in 10 years, so we'd be very happy to sell. This said, there are 4 showings (for renters) tomorrow, so we'll see what happens. If we get good tenants in the next 10 days, we may rent. The agent knows that we are considering selling, and promised to talk to her DH and mom about it this evening. If they have somebody interested, at our price, we'd sell.
We are not "desperate" and we won't sell at a price we're not happy with. But, we've decided, we both prefer to sell.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 19:02:55 GMT -5
Am I reading this right, the other owner rents a similar unit for 1000e and you are trying to rent for 885e?
Yes but in fact their half is 10% bigger than ours (41m2 and 45m2), so in fact the rents are more closely aligned, proportionately. This said I agree with you, but the ad is already out.
We're getting good prospective tenants ... but so far they have all declined to rent it. With couples, the young women tend to love the apt, but the guys don't. The other problem is it's not near the center of the suburb, and parking isn't easy. These are apparently the reasons the people have given the agency.
At this point, we just want out. We want to get that crack taken care of, and move on. This said, if a fabulous renter offers to rent it this weekend, we'll probably accept. Also, since the crack is in an outside wall, it's a HOA issue. UGH. UGH. UGH.
Obviously that will need to be taken care of either way, but at this point, we are more than ready to move on.
ETA: We continue to get "non paying renter insurance" so in order to qualify for that, the renters have to gross 3X the rent. Not easy for a single person in Paris these days, but no problem for a couple, so we do have a lot of young professionals looking at it ... but not signing a lease.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 19:51:23 GMT -5
Thanks Ratchets! Same to you!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 20:06:21 GMT -5
Am I reading this right, the other owner rents a similar unit for 1000e and you are trying to rent for 885e? Perhaps if that is the case you should RAISE YOUR RENT to 1000e or close to that. I know it sounds idiotic to raise the rent when you can not find a tenant. But....when we were trying to sell our home over the past 3.5 years, we kept lowering the price. We finally got to a price where I could tell the quality of buyers were definitely lower compared to the lookers we were geting with the higher price. (ie: not all cash buyers, younger, low ball offers, etc) After about couple of months I decided to RAISE THE PRICE. We raised it by $50,000 and sold within a month, all cash. Lesson....at various prices you will attract certain types of buyers or renters and sometimes attracting a lower class of people financially or personally is not necessarily a good thing to get a deal. And it can also go the other way. When we put our AZ house up for rent in the summer of 2009 just before we left for Germany, I was unsuccessful in renting it out. My agent used the same argument on me and I foolishly trusted her (thinking she knew the market better than I did instead of trusting my gut). It sat vacant for almost 5 months and after two price reductions finally rented it out for what I had posted it on Craig's list. That was a very expensive lesson and cost us over 10k. A lot of this is just timing. In my case we missed the family market because school gets out at the end of May and we didn't get our signed papers until the end of June. By then everyone had made their moving decisions and went on vacation. Also the rental market plummeted with investors rushing in snapping up foreclosures everywhere and flooded the market with rentals. Debt is trying to rent out her place in late November/December, traditionally not when most folks want to move. I think that if she's got a good prospect then she should offer a couple of weeks free (say someone wants it December 15, she can offer to lease it to them December 1 but rent doesn't start until December 15 or some similar arrangement.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Nov 15, 2013 20:14:09 GMT -5
Forgive my ignorance but what do you mean when you say "reversed accommodation"?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 20:23:07 GMT -5
A lot of this is just timing.
Very true. I wish we had just put it up for sale in late Aug, once the last renter left.
Hindsight is 20/20.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 20:25:14 GMT -5
Sarah, it means the common living area is upstairs, and the bedroom is downstairs. In our case the kitchen / LR are on the ground floor, and the bedroom / bathroom are partial basement, with a large light well.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Nov 15, 2013 20:37:14 GMT -5
Just wanted to say " I am so sorry you are having to deal with this - yet again".
I am sure that , in the long, run all this hassle will pay off for you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 20:38:20 GMT -5
Bonny, that's not a bad idea. We'd definitely consider that at this point.
At this point, I just want out, yesterday. But if one of the people seeing it tomorrow wants to rent it, and has a solid file, we'd probably rent it.
I am REALLY kicking myself for not putting it up for sale earlier. We would MUCH prefer to sell it at this point, but it would probably be hugely idiotic to let a good renter get away when the selling agent only found out tonight that we have finally decided to sell.
Also, DH is having more surgery on Thursday, so he's going to be pretty inoperative for at least a few weeks. I'll probably just have to go with the path of least resistance.
If nobody rents it by next week (our ad runs till Tues), we'll probably buy a cheap futon and convertible couch from Ikea or CL, let DD stay there when it suits her, and put it up for sale. At least we can kick DD out whenever we sell!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 20:40:45 GMT -5
Thank you GG! I really hope so lol. I am just SO fed up with it!
Tonight at dinner DS3 (15) said, Mom, Dad, seriously, don't you think Gd or the universe is trying to tell you something? I said yes, absolutely, I've thought that for YEARS! But since we are apparently SO THICK, He / the Universe just keeps laying it on. LOL.
Until DH took over a few months ago, this apt was "the perfect bachelor pad that he never had", and he was emotionally attached to it. First rule of landlording ... it's a business. Save your emotional investment for your own home.
When I ask DH, bottom line, I need an answer, do you want to continue renting it or do you want to sell, DH keeps telling me, it depends on how much I like the renters. NO WONDER I FEEL LIKE I'M HITTING MY HEAD AGAINST A BRICK WALL!!!
That's another reason I want to sell, yesterday, before DH gets all sentimental about this place again.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Nov 15, 2013 20:47:21 GMT -5
Thanks Debt - was not sure!
Sorry you are going though this but I love the fact that you handles it for 9.5 years and your DH is ready to sell after 6 months! Keep on keeping on and soon this too shall pass -at least that is what I keep telling myself.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 20:51:48 GMT -5
Yes Sarah I got a huge kick out of that too. In fact I actually realized that counting our first rental, I've been doing it for 10 years. Sarah I have not posted on your thread but I have read it, and you are in my thoughts. I know it is not easy. DH (only child) did it with his parents's house, and his mom was a hoarder collector.
His experience has definitely made me a rabid declutterer. Please feel free to join us on the WIR declutter thread. Busymom is (um) busy emptying out her mom's house and posts her progress regularly.
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