Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 14, 2011 22:56:01 GMT -5
Back off, moderator. I have a right to my opinion. Did you bother to watch the video, or read up on this? If this is your opinion of what is free speech I am sorry for you. But-- I am a conservative. We don't normally act like assholes. Poster-of course you have a right to your opinion and so do I. Show me where I wanted to take yours away? I watched the video and I read not only your article but ChiTownVenture's too. Did you? If you don't believe these students have a right to free speech then I feel sorry for you. And assholes come in all political stripes-even conservatives.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 14, 2011 23:16:46 GMT -5
So now you're moderating what we DON'T post as well??? Or are you making this comment as a regular poster? You may have to be specific from now on so we know which hat you're wearing. Otherwise, I think a moderator asking a poster why he/she didn't comment on a certain topic is way over the line... Ed-you claim to be intelligent but if you haven't caught on yet let me explain it to you. When you see me sign my name and the title of moderator in a post then I am acting as a moderator. When you see me post and not include my name and the title of moderator in a post then I am simply a poster with an opinion. And as you were addressing me above as a moderator, I shall sign this off as a moderator. ? Tennesseer/Moderator Thats what I was trying to say man...now as far as the stupid and idiotic posting as a poster..fair game ..right
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Feb 14, 2011 23:44:26 GMT -5
So now you're moderating what we DON'T post as well??? Or are you making this comment as a regular poster? You may have to be specific from now on so we know which hat you're wearing. Otherwise, I think a moderator asking a poster why he/she didn't comment on a certain topic is way over the line... Ed-you claim to be intelligent but if you haven't caught on yet let me explain it to you. When you see me sign my name and the title of moderator in a post then I am acting as a moderator. When you see me post and not include my name and the title of moderator in a post then I am simply a poster with an opinion. And as you were addressing me above as a moderator, I shall sign this off as a moderator. Tennesseer/Moderator Tennesseer, as you know we are only suppose to post one or two lines from an article. We have been warned about this by moderators. Now you are "assuming" we will pick the "politically correct" lines to post from the op. That could be considered "cherry picking" by the person starting the thread, to support their position, on either side of the argument, whether you are on the left or right of the argument. .
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 14, 2011 23:50:30 GMT -5
Not one or two lines Value Buy-one or two paragraphs-read the CoC. To interest a poster into a thread it would probably be best to post the opening couple of paragraphs to get the reader's attention. But if one wants to post a couple of paragraphs from the middle it isn't going to bother me one iota.
And where am I assuming anything?
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 15, 2011 9:28:59 GMT -5
krickitt-unless the protesters are throwing rocks, bricks, Molotov cocktails or other things that could cause bodily harm at the speaker it doesn't matter what the protesters were doing. If they were using their voices only that is a right of Americans. That would all depend on where the disruption takes place, would it not? While we all beat the "freedom of speech" drum, we all know it has limitations. Take our own CoC for a prime example.
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Post by privateinvestor on Feb 15, 2011 9:38:33 GMT -5
Why then are the Muslim students being charged with a misdemeanor if they didn't do anything wrong when they disrupted the Ambassador?? And these Muslims were asked to please let him speak @ three or four times by the Moderator of this college seminar.??
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Feb 15, 2011 9:40:18 GMT -5
Everybody has the right to free speech here. Nobody has the right to take it away from others by shouting them down. The proper way to do things is to organize an event in which your own views are expressed. However, I don't believe arrests were the way to go, the protesters should have just been evicted.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 15, 2011 9:51:31 GMT -5
Why then are the Muslim students being charged with a misdemeanor if they didn't do anything wrong when they disrupted the Ambassador??... Because prosecutors are fallible. The essence of the thread is that question of, "Are they in the wrong?"
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Post by marjar on Feb 15, 2011 10:09:41 GMT -5
Shame on you! Powerful language. The entire situation was poorly handled. Those protesting, and were unwilling to remain silent, should have been escorted out, and those who were responding should have been asked to remain silent, too.
Free speech is a double- edged sword. You don't squelch those who disagree with you or those for whom you have a dislike.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 15, 2011 10:14:07 GMT -5
The essence of the thread is that question of, "Are they in the wrong?" No more right or wrong than Joe Wilson's outburst that most lefties said he should be drummed out of congress over....and that was only two words.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 15, 2011 10:25:15 GMT -5
The essence of the thread is that question of, "Are they in the wrong?" No more right or wrong than Joe Wilson's outburst that most lefties said he should be drummed out of congress over....and that was only two words. Should the standard be the same for college students during a guest presentation by the Israeli ambassador to the United States and members of Congress during the State of the Union Address being given by the President of the United States?
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Post by privateinvestor on Feb 15, 2011 10:44:21 GMT -5
The Muslims obviously planned to raise havoc and the DA was correct with charging them all with a misdemeanor....now let's see if the courts agree or not....IMHO
Or will the charges be dismissed for due cause??
Legal Beagles seem to think that these students will be let off with just a slap on the wrist and a warning...since the ACLU is now on their side, I guess??
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 15, 2011 10:49:42 GMT -5
Should the standard be the same for college students during a guest presentation by the Israeli ambassador to the United States and members of Congress during the State of the Union Address being given by the President of the United States? Is freedom of speech defined differently for Muslim students and a white congressmen? I'm just asking because a lot of people are calling this disruption "freedom of speech".
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Feb 15, 2011 12:28:54 GMT -5
krickitt-unless the protesters are throwing rocks, bricks, Molotov cocktails or other things that could cause bodily harm at the speaker it doesn't matter what the protesters were doing. If they were using their voices only that is a right of Americans. That would all depend on where the disruption takes place, would it not? While we all beat the "freedom of speech" drum, we all know it has limitations. Take our own CoC for a prime example. The difference that everyone is forgetting is that this speech happened on public property and was open to the public. The protesters had every right to be there and protest. They were not impeding emergency officials, and were demonstrating with non violence. The charges against the protesters are conspiracy to disrupt, they are not even being charged with the actual disruption. To me this seems like the DA decided to push this, and it's questionable if the charges would hold up in court.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Feb 15, 2011 12:31:35 GMT -5
Should the standard be the same for college students during a guest presentation by the Israeli ambassador to the United States and members of Congress during the State of the Union Address being given by the President of the United States? Is freedom of speech defined differently for Muslim students and a white congressmen? I'm just asking because a lot of people are calling this disruption "freedom of speech". Was the congressmen in question charged with a crime? or was he threatened with congressional penalties for breaking a congressional rule?
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Feb 15, 2011 12:52:54 GMT -5
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 15, 2011 14:15:47 GMT -5
The Muslims obviously planned to raise havoc and the DA was correct with charging them all with a misdemeanor....now let's see if the courts agree or not....IMHO Or will the charges be dismissed for due cause?? Legal Beagles seem to think that these students will be let off with just a slap on the wrist and a warning...since the ACLU is now on their side, I guess?? If they are legally charged, I presume they have the right to council, ACLU or a private attorney, what seems to be the problem, the court after hearing the evidence will decide I presume as it is supposed to .
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 15, 2011 14:44:17 GMT -5
The difference that everyone is forgetting is that this speech happened on public property and was open to the public. The protesters had every right to be there and protest. Then how can Westboro Baptist be prohibited from protesting at a soldiers funeral if they keep to a public sidewalk? How can one be arrested for walking down the road shouting racial slurs? How can kids in a CA school be kicked out for wearing an American Flag T-Shirt? Freedoms are not absolute.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 15, 2011 15:12:05 GMT -5
The difference that everyone is forgetting is that this speech happened on public property and was open to the public. The protesters had every right to be there and protest. Then how can Westboro Baptist be prohibited from protesting at a soldiers funeral if they keep to a public sidewalk? How can one be arrested for walking down the road shouting racial slurs? How can kids in a CA school be kicked out for wearing an American Flag T-Shirt?Freedoms are not absolute. Goggling the Westboro court cases you will find that they consistently win the right to protest in the end. Walking down the road "shouting" is protected speech if you have the proper permit. Granted kids, schools, and freedom have a very mixed bag of results when it comes to court decisions.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 15, 2011 15:25:02 GMT -5
Goggling the Westboro court cases you will find that they consistently win the right to protest in the end. Of course, they have a right to protest...it might be a mile away from where they want to be, but they can protest. Point being...they do not automatically have the right to protest when / where they wish simply because they are on public property.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 15, 2011 15:33:12 GMT -5
Goggling the Westboro court cases you will find that they consistently win the right to protest in the end. Of course, they have a right to protest...it might be a mile away from where they want to be, but they can protest. Point being...they do not automatically have the right to protest when / where they wish simply because they are on public property. Great clarification.
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Post by privateinvestor on Feb 15, 2011 15:34:45 GMT -5
Whose freedom was violated
Anyone who claims the Muslim students freedoms were violated has not made a strong case IMHO....there was obviously a conspiracy by them to bring this speech to an end because the speaker was someone they wanted to shout down for whatever reasons..?? I will be interested to see how this case is resolved instead of just a lot of speculating by those who support these students..
It could just turn out the charges against them will be stayed by a court ot law so let's revisit it when and if that happens ..
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 15, 2011 16:11:18 GMT -5
Great clarification. Thanks Bills. It may take me a while to get to my point, but I get there eventually....better late than never?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 15, 2011 16:33:36 GMT -5
Great clarification. Thanks Bills. It may take me a while to get to my point, but I get there eventually....better late than never? You ride a motorcycle. Never take the interstate on a bike.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Feb 17, 2011 9:29:06 GMT -5
Search Freedom to Protest and you will see examples. The Westboro Baptist are not prohibited from protesting, the are regulated to a protest area.
People walking down the streets yelling obscenities are not protesting they are inciting violence.
Kids wearing a flag t-shirt get kicked out of school, but that does not mean their rights weren't violated. They need to take their case to court and advance it to the Supreme Court.
You seem to be confusing the fact that just because something happens doesn't make it legal.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 17, 2011 9:59:21 GMT -5
The difference that everyone is forgetting is that this speech happened on public property and was open to the public. The protesters had every right to be there and protest. Search Freedom to Protest and you will see examples. The Westboro Baptist are not prohibited from protesting, they are regulated to a protest area. That's exactly my point. The students may have a right to protest, they do not have the right to protest wherever they want simply because they're on public property.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Feb 17, 2011 10:04:51 GMT -5
The difference that everyone is forgetting is that this speech happened on public property and was open to the public. The protesters had every right to be there and protest. Search Freedom to Protest and you will see examples. The Westboro Baptist are not prohibited from protesting, they are regulated to a protest area. That's exactly my point. The students may have a right to protest, they do not have the right to protest wherever they want simply because they're on public property. They have a right to protest wherever they want if there is not a area set aside for protesters. Which in this case there was not. Again they are not being charged with protesting, they are being charged with conspiracy to disrupt.
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