Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 14:20:29 GMT -5
latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/02/uc-irvine-muslim-students-charged.html100 UC Irvine faculty members ask district attorney to drop charges against Muslim students February 9, 2011 A group of 100 faculty members at UC Irvine signed a letter asking the Orange County district attorney to drop criminal charges against 11 Muslim students who disrupted a speech by the Israeli ambassador to the United States.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 14:25:17 GMT -5
The kitty that you entrapped in an old computer shell.
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Post by marjar on Feb 14, 2011 14:29:42 GMT -5
Not enough info.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Feb 14, 2011 14:43:30 GMT -5
latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/02/uc-irvine-muslim-students-charged.html100 UC Irvine faculty members ask district attorney to drop charges against Muslim students February 9, 2011 A group of 100 faculty members at UC Irvine signed a letter asking the Orange County district attorney to drop criminal charges against 11 Muslim students who disrupted a speech by the Israeli ambassador to the United States. "charging the students with two misdemeanor counts, including conspiracy to disrupt the speech." I would be interested to know more about the law that states conspiring to disrupt a speech is a misdemeanor account. Especially when the disruption is people shouting. This seems like an infringement on freedom of speech.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Feb 14, 2011 14:44:33 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 14, 2011 15:09:04 GMT -5
Thanks ChiTown. From your link: Jewish advocacy group says its members should face same criminal charges as Muslim students involved in UC Irvine protestA Jewish advocacy group says its members should also face criminal charges in light of Orange County prosecutors’ decision last week to charge 11 Muslim student protesters with conspiracy to disrupt the Israeli ambassador to the United States’ speech at UC Irvine last year. Organizers for Jewish Voice for Peace said they plan to hand-deliver petitions Wednesday to the Orange County district attorney’s office listing the signatures of 5,000 supporters admitting that they too had committed the crime of interrupting a speaker or event to make a political point. They also will deliver a letter from more than a dozen rabbis from around the country condemning the prosecution of the Muslim students. latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/02/uci-muslim-student-union-.html
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 14, 2011 15:16:52 GMT -5
Brings back fond memories of "don't taze me man"...
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 14, 2011 16:44:48 GMT -5
Frankly, I don't know why they were arrested in the first place. Shouting down speakers is common practice at political events, and has been for years. Tea Partiers do it all the time, from what I read. It's part of their strategy. These students weren't, apparently, throwing objects at the speaker, or getting into fights, so arrest seems to me like an over-reaction. I read this thread title as another case of: "It's okay for my side, but not okay for the other side."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 17:43:06 GMT -5
I saw the videos of the protest. Bullshit. This was not cool in a college building. The Jewish people that think that is okay are of the same ilk, and age, and political persuasion. Whatever.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 14, 2011 17:57:30 GMT -5
Frankly, I don't know why they were arrested in the first place. Shouting down speakers is common practice at political events, and has been for years. Tea Partiers do it all the time, from what I read. It's part of their strategy. These students weren't, apparently, throwing objects at the speaker, or getting into fights, so arrest seems to me like an over-reaction. I read this thread title as another case of: "It's okay for my side, but not okay for the other side." I'm old I guess , out of it...Adolf showed up...ok but really, unless there is something wrong about the person who is giving the speech ...if the message is not what you want to hear...then don't be there. if questions afterwords, then voice and possible bring up objections in the questions. Individual is invited to speak, a audience shows up to hear the speech..person should be allowed to speak. Palestinian speaking from the Palestinians stand point, Jews speaking from Israelis side, Shias speaking from their side, Sunnis from theirs. Any and all...if protesters are arrested..fined , big time, cash on the barrel head. If young ones, Mom/Dad pays..guarantee they won't be doing it again. If you take away the right to speak freely, no matter the message..what do we have left. Have some one decide what is correct and allowed, what is not? Most know my views, do you want to give me that right to decide what is proper to be spoken or a few others here, allow them to. Doubt it.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 14, 2011 17:57:59 GMT -5
So whose freedon (of?) was violated krickitt?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 17:59:52 GMT -5
I owe you an exalt, dez. I'm old, too, I guess. Don't show up if you do not want to hear the speaker.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 14, 2011 18:10:05 GMT -5
Trouble is, Dez, you're taking away the right to speak freely on either side. If the speaker is being disrupted, his right to get his message across is being trampled. On the other hand, if some people in the audience disagree (loudly) with the message, and are arrested, their right to speak freely is being violated. It's a two-sided coin.
In this case, it seems to me arrest was an over-reaction. Escorted off the premises? Okay. Arrest? Overboard.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 14, 2011 18:18:03 GMT -5
So do some of the posters here believe opposing views should be suppressed? That is what it sounds like.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Feb 14, 2011 18:19:03 GMT -5
I owe you an exalt, dez. I'm old, too, I guess. Don't show up if you do not want to hear the speaker. The speaker is speaking on public owned property, people who disagree have a right to show up and voice their disagreements. I question how a person talking over another person is violating the Freedom of Speech, besides we don't guarantee the freedom of speech to visitors of this country, it is guaranteed to it's citizens. I disagree with what the 11 were doing, but I don't believe it to be illegal, and I take exception to the 11 being arrested and charged (or silenced). If people want to hear the speaker without any interruptions hold the event on private property.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 18:22:31 GMT -5
I will look for the video. This was not a peaceful protest of the speaker.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 14, 2011 18:32:36 GMT -5
krickitt-unless the protesters are throwing rocks, bricks, Molotov cocktails or other things that could cause bodily harm at the speaker it doesn't matter what the protesters were doing. If they were using their voices only that is a right of Americans.
Do you wish to take that right away? Or only take it away from Muslim?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 18:37:11 GMT -5
This is in court right now, Tenn, so lets let the courts decide. I think assholes should just stay home, not kill and terrorize people, etc, but that is just IMO. There was a reason those people got arrested, you know, or you saying the cops are racist anti Muslims?
I'm just asking the question.
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Post by marjar on Feb 14, 2011 18:40:12 GMT -5
The article makes no mention of any charges of assault, use of weapons, or anything to suggest it escalated beyond shouting.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Feb 14, 2011 18:42:27 GMT -5
Muslims torpedo UC Irvine invited speaker, Israel's Ambassador Oren
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Feb 14, 2011 18:54:17 GMT -5
Bah! For decades, the police have arrested protesters to calm a situation down. They usually hold them overnight or for a short time and usually release everybody unless somebody did something egregious or had a warrant.
For a couple of weeks everybody bewails the loss of freedom of speech. Then everybody forgets about it until the next futile act.
I'd have thought that after 50 years of this, people would have cooled their jets over the same old thing. I guess not!
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 14, 2011 19:03:02 GMT -5
Trouble is, Dez, you're taking away the right to speak freely on either side. If the speaker is being disrupted, his right to get his message across is being trampled. On the other hand, if some people in the audience disagree (loudly) with the message, and are arrested, their right to speak freely is being violated. It's a two-sided coin. In this case, it seems to me arrest was an over-reaction. Escorted off the premises? Okay. Arrest? Overboard. If not arrested then asked to leave or escorted out. If I paid to hear the speaker or if the speaker was paid by the sponsering what ever, aren't those rights being violated there too if desruptions don't allow or if so, so disrupt speaker, better he didn't show up , a waste of time and $? It may be a public hall , but rented, publicly owned but locked when not in use. And if the ones being asked to leave don't leave, stay silent, actively fight ejection, then of course be arrested. Then there is a question of common courtesy, a archaic word , phrase and happening I know, I grew up with it, it worked out very well. Sorry to say it seems to have gone the way of the dodo.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 14, 2011 19:06:26 GMT -5
This is in court right now, Tenn, so lets let the courts decide. I think assholes should just stay home, not kill and terrorize people, etc, but that is just IMO. There was a reason those people got arrested, you know, or you saying the cops are racist anti Muslims? I'm just asking the question. krickitt-your article did not state these 'assholes' killed or terrorized people or physically harmed the Israeli ambassador to the United States. These students spoke up and were arrested for speaking up-unless you know something the rest of us don't and are holding back information. Are the cops racist anti-Muslims? Muslim isn't a race-it's a religion. Why did you, krickitt, feel the need to post this particular news item? Why have you not commented on the additional news (provided by ChiTownVenture) that Israeli students and other Jews have spoken up in defense of the Muslim students' right to free speech in the United States? I thought you were all about free speech, you know, for WE THE PEOPLE?
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 14, 2011 19:26:04 GMT -5
Unfortunately, dez, politics has never honored the idea of common courtesy. The name-calling, finger-pointing, and general foul behavior is a part of that venue, and has been for many years. It's not a courteous area, and such should not be expected there. I can remember my parents telling me as a little child not to talk about two things in polite society: politics and religion. Needless to say, those words were uttered over 60 years ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 19:28:56 GMT -5
Back off, moderator. I have a right to my opinion. Did you bother to watch the video, or read up on this? If this is your opinion of what is free speech I am sorry for you. But-- I am a conservative. We don't normally act like assholes.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 14, 2011 19:52:34 GMT -5
Ummm ... tea partiers come to mind when I think of disruption of speeches by people with whom they don't agree, and whose presentation they make sure to show up for. I believe those people consider themselves to be conservatives ...
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Post by ed1066 on Feb 14, 2011 20:21:35 GMT -5
So now you're moderating what we DON'T post as well??? Or are you making this comment as a regular poster? You may have to be specific from now on so we know which hat you're wearing. Otherwise, I think a moderator asking a poster why he/she didn't comment on a certain topic is way over the line...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 20:31:52 GMT -5
I like you, ed, so I am going to ask you to please leave it alone. Fact is Tenn has power over all of us posters, and those of us that think different are in big trouble. I see no other mod, except Dem a few times, ever say one single word to anyone-- and dem never bans. Ed-- your best bet is to stay as far away from me as possible. Never defend me, never agree with me-- etc. You have enough on your plate. I would do well to heed my own words with you and a few others.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 14, 2011 22:41:39 GMT -5
I like you, ed, so I am going to ask you to please leave it alone. Fact is Tenn has power over all of us posters, and those of us that think different are in big trouble. I see no other mod, except Dem a few times, ever say one single word to anyone-- and dem never bans. Ed-- your best bet is to stay as far away from me as possible. Never defend me, never agree with me-- etc. You have enough on your plate. I would do well to heed my own words with you and a few others. I think it's clear when a moderator speaks as a moderator, they usually sign off as such or their words are very specific to what he/she is asking..no doubt about it. Possible when as a moderator,speaking as one , to remember to sign off as such would put to rest any confusion. As a poster , moderators are allowed to post as knowledgeable and full of wisdom as the rest of us as well as slip into idiocy and stupidity as so many of us do, all is fair in love and war, and as long as not personally attacked their words are open for discussion and if can be done with out the personal attack, a talent that is acquired by the way , ridiculed by others to the fair thee well ;D
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 14, 2011 22:45:34 GMT -5
So now you're moderating what we DON'T post as well??? Or are you making this comment as a regular poster? You may have to be specific from now on so we know which hat you're wearing. Otherwise, I think a moderator asking a poster why he/she didn't comment on a certain topic is way over the line... Ed-you claim to be intelligent but if you haven't caught on yet let me explain it to you. When you see me sign my name and the title of moderator in a post then I am acting as a moderator. When you see me post and not include my name and the title of moderator in a post then I am simply a poster with an opinion. And as you were addressing me above as a moderator, I shall sign this off as a moderator. Tennesseer/Moderator
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