My parent's estate planning

[thyme4change]

Finally my 74 year old father decided to see a lawyer.  He never had a will or anything.  His thought was that he wanted it distributed according to the state's rules, so why pay a lawyer to put that in writing.  

He decided to go through the process so he could leave money to the grandkids specifically, but also to avoid some taxes.

My Mom called to tell me they have started the process.  My first question:  "How much do I get?"  

She didn't let me know, but did tell me that I am the one that has to pull the plug, because my sister's are too tender-hearted for that.  

[Peace Of Mind]

LMAO!!  So it's not just when you're here that you are a hard ass? 

Being the oldest I had to make that decision for both my parents, if it needed to be decided.  It was for my dad but my mom passed on her own.  When they are in pain and there is no chance of survival or them being "them" again - at all it's easy if you are compassionate.  If not...  I don't know what it would be like for somebody having to decide.  I also do the "What would I want if it were me?" thought process.  No, my real dad did not have any money and that was not a factor. 

[Deleted]

Lol, Thyme.  I know that didn't make you feel good.  It is like my ex telling me, when we were getting a divorce, that I'd be ok because I am a survivor.  I am only a survivor because so many bad things happened in my life.  Don't try to make me sorry for making lemonade out of those lemons.

Did you really ask, "How much do I get?"  I would have told my kids, "My best wishes and love.  How can you put a dollar sign on that?"

This isn't you, but it's funny how even "nice" people get really weird about inheritances.  I'm sure my kids will roll their eyes if DH outlives me (bus hitting me since his heart isn't that great) and gets $600K plus the house.  I wonder if they realize that ex-DH (their father) will be leaving millions (his parents' money) to HIS wife if she outlives him?

[Peace Of Mind]

She didn't let me know, but did tell me that I am the one that has to pull the plug, because my sister's are too tender-hearted for that.

Forgot to say that I think that may be their nice way of saying that they can't expect your sister(s) to handle making a big decision like that or honoring their wishes because they aren't tough enough.   That you will do it regardless of how tough it will be because you are a stronger person.  

    

[giramomma]

Jun 5, 2013 19:05:14 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

She didn't let me know, but did tell me that I am the one that has to pull the plug, because my sister's are too tender-hearted for that.  

Is your dad going to get all the other stuff besides just a will done?

When we did wills, I was pretty much able to specify that if I was in an accident and there was no chance of being able to live without machinery, that I wanted the plug pulled as soon as everyone got a chance to say good bye, assuming my DH and kids wanted/needed to say good-bye. I've already made the decision for everyone..

[mmhmm]

Aww, thyme.  Some of the kindest, most compassionate people I've seen in these situations are those who made the decision to "pull the plug".

[steph08]

Jun 5, 2013 19:40:44 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

Lol, Thyme.  I know that didn't make you feel good.  It is like my ex telling me, when we were getting a divorce, that I'd be ok because I am a survivor.  I am only a survivor because so many bad things happened in my life.  Don't try to make me sorry for making lemonade out of those lemons.

Did you really ask, "How much do I get?"  I would have told my kids, "My best wishes and love.  How can you put a dollar sign on that?"

This isn't you, but it's funny how even "nice" people get really weird about inheritances.  I'm sure my kids will roll their eyes if DH outlives me (bus hitting me since his heart isn't that great) and gets $600K plus the house.  I wonder if they realize that ex-DH (their father) will be leaving millions (his parents' money) to HIS wife if she outlives him?

The other day when the market went up 200 points, my dad went off to check his accounts while I was at their house.  I said 'ya, go see how much more money you are leaving me now!' 

It's just a joke though- I hope they spend everything on stuff they want and will enjoy.  They are only 62/58 so hopefully have many good years left. 

[Deleted]

Pull it like you're starting a lawn mower.

[whoami]

Jun 5, 2013 19:40:44 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

Lol, Thyme.  I know that didn't make you feel good.  It is like my ex telling me, when we were getting a divorce, that I'd be ok because I am a survivor.  I am only a survivor because so many bad things happened in my life.  Don't try to make me sorry for making lemonade out of those lemons.


This isn't you, but it's funny how even "nice" people get really weird about inheritances.  I'm sure my kids will roll their eyes if DH outlives me (bus hitting me since his heart isn't that great) and gets $600K plus the house.  I wonder if they realize that ex-DH (their father) will be leaving millions (his parents' money) to HIS wife if she outlives him?

People can certainly do what the want with their wills but I have no intention of leaving my inheritance from my parents (7 figs) to my husband. Its going to be doled out to my kids and is enough to provide them with the basics for the rest of their lives.

 My MIL is currently rewriting her will and I am amazed at how someone who really has little can make things so damn complicated.  My husband keeps giving me the "family obligation" speech so while she gives her money away *now to charity, we are getting stuck paying for things that are IMO, her responsibility.  His theory is that he will "repay" our account when he gets his inheritance which would be fine, but I will be surprised if there is much of anything left.  Ill be the first to admit I resent paying for this stuff especially when there is no guarantee it will be repaid, so she can have the pleasure of taking a large check to her chosen charity and giving her money to them. 

[Deleted]

She didn't let me know, but did tell me that I am the one that has to pull the plug, because my sister's are too tender-hearted for that.

My dad died when I was 16.  Because of a weird constellation of effed up s--t the doctors asked me if they should remove my father from the feeding tube and other apparatus. I felt it was the best option and agreed.

It's a tough decision.

I think it's great that your dad is starting the process of figuring out where he wants his estate to go.  It can save his family and heirs a lot of grief.

FIL paid for our estate planning, trusts, wills and the whole lot as a wedding gift.  At first it felt really strange but I'm glad that he did because it opened the door to a lot of important conversations.

[whoami]

Jun 5, 2013 20:34:32 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

FIL paid for our estate planning, trusts, wills and the whole lot as a wedding gift.  At first it felt really strange but I'm glad that he did because it opened the door to a lot of important conversations.

I think its so important to do these things when people are "healthy" and not facing a crisis. I was in my 30s when I had my will/assorted directives done.  I will redo it in Jan and probably again at another point in my life.  My parents have had several wills in their lifetime. We have all had the "pull the plug" conversation and the "haunt you forever" if you violate my wishes conversation. It was a serious conversation but lighthearted at the same time.

My MILs estate paperwork is/was a mess. I am not sure if her will has actually been rewritten at this point. She was given 3 months 4 months ago. DH finally decided to discuss the will issue with her about 2 months ago and it did not go well. It should have been addressed a long time ago but DHs family tiptoes around MIL and they all just refuse to deal with this stuff.  Now, these conversations are making them look like circling vultures. 

[sesfw]

DH#1 died very suddenly at age 59 with only a 20 year old will.  Probate was terrible and his estate was small.  The attorney charged $150 per hour and his assistant was $75 per hour.

After all was said and done I went to a different attorney and had all legal papers done including end of life decisions for me.  I wasn't about to allow our daughter to go through what I went through.

I had everything reviewed several years ago and it's still in good shape.

Life is very uncertain.  I don't think anyone is too young for these papers to be done, especially end of life instructions. 

[bookkeeper]

My parents worked through their wills, living trusts, living wills, and medical directives about 25 years ago.  They named me and my brother as executors and had me read the paperwork. 

Fast forward to today, they refuse to revisit anything to do with end of life financial planning.  They have an estate around 10M which is way bigger than it was 25 years ago.  My fear is that something is arranged incorrectly causing a large tax burden.  My brother has been hounding our parents about giving the money away to the government through the estate tax, so they have started gifting annual amounts into some accounts they set up for each sibling.

Two of my brothers married later in life to women that already had families.  My father is adamant that only blood relatives receive any money from his estate.  This should make for some fireworks around the Thanksgiving dinner table when the pie gets cut.

I feel they may be missing out on some opportunities for the next generation by standing pat on paperwork from 25 years ago.

[Deleted]

Jun 5, 2013 19:05:14 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Finally my 74 year old father decided to see a lawyer.  He never had a will or anything.  His thought was that he wanted it distributed according to the state's rules, so why pay a lawyer to put that in writing.  

He decided to go through the process so he could leave money to the grandkids specifically, but also to avoid some taxes.

My Mom called to tell me they have started the process.  My first question:  "How much do I get?"  

She didn't let me know, but did tell me that I am the one that has to pull the plug, because my sister's are too tender-hearted for that.  

Glad they are finally getting around to it. And all joking aside, one of the main reasons I urge people to go through the process IS to get the healthcare directive done. I know you can do this for free by getting paperwork at the hospital but I believe it should be done in a thoughtful way and not moments before you have a procedure done.

[emma1420]

Good for them for getting it done.

My 90 year Uncle had his will drawn up by his now deceased son (his son died just last year), and my Uncle seems to think that by crossing out the bits he doesn't like with a pen that has updated his will.  I wish I could get him to go to a lawyer and create a new one.  I don't care if he leaves everything to the dog's home, providing it actually goes to where he wants to go.

I have a copy of my mother's will.  But, when my mother dies I will lose money after the burial costs.  I don't have a copy of my dad's will, but I do know the basics, enough to know that I don't lose a bunch of money to a funeral home.

[swamp]

My 90 year Uncle had his will drawn up by his now deceased son (his son died just last year), and my Uncle seems to think that by crossing out the bits he doesn't like with a pen that has updated his will. 

My parents estate planning consists of signing the house over to me and my sister, and making all their bank accounts joint with me.   They're also gifting some money to me each year.  I know that I have to share it with my siblings when they die, and I intend to.

The only thing they should have left title in their name is a vehicle and maybe the boat.  I think they're giving me the boat this year.  And I think they are also going to one vehicle soon.

ETA:  My sister pulls the plug.  I don't want to. 

[thyme4change]

Is your dad going to get all the other stuff besides just a will done?

They are doing the whole schebang.  A trust, the medical stuff, the will, etc.  Right down to the wedding ring, and what to do with the ashes (so I guess we are cremating her.)  

I did actually ask "How much am I getting?"  But it was a joke.  My mother was clearly nervous, and needed to vent.  I suspect 2 hours in a lawyer's office talking about your death, and all the possible situations (one dies, one remarries, etc.) was probably pretty overwhelming.  So, I knew if I asked that, she would laugh - which she did.  Later in the conversation, she said that they have a trust for most of the assets, but a will for things that are too small to put into the trust.  She was telling me about a $200 savings account they have (and their reason why they have it) and she said that isn't in the trust, but in the will.  So, of course I asked her who gets the $200.  LOL.  I thought just keeping with the youngest child theme was the best way to handle it.  


It doesn't really matter who officially will "pull the plug" - because I won't do it unless my sisters are in agreement.  I'm not going to the "bitch that killed Mom."  And, although my one sister is more tender-hearted, it is all relative.  She is only tender compared to me.      She is very pragmatic and smart.  She will know when the soul is gone, and the body has done its job.  

My parents are so healthy - I figure they've got another 20 years, so I'm not overly concerned at this point.  I'm glad they have documented everything, and appreciate them spending this time (and money) to take care of this so we don't have to mess around with it later when they are not quite as sharp or not quite as breathing.  

[thyme4change]

Jun 5, 2013 20:34:32 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

My dad died when I was 16.  Because of a weird constellation of effed up s--t the doctors asked me if they should remove my father from the feeding tube and other apparatus. I felt it was the best option and agreed.

It's a tough decision.

 I'm so sorry for you.  I'm sure you did the right thing, but at 16, that is heavy.  And your father must not have been super-old, so that decision must have hurt.  I know my mother said it really hurt to authorize my Grandma being taken off life-support.  My Grandma was 96 and had been miserable from dementia, Alzheimer's, broken bones, cancer and a whole host of other things for at least a decade.  It seems like a more inevitable situation.  

[whoami]

Jun 6, 2013 9:17:28 GMT -5 @bonnap said:

Glad they are finally getting around to it. And all joking aside, one of the main reasons I urge people to go through the process IS to get the healthcare directive done. I know you can do this for free by getting paperwork at the hospital but I believe it should be done in a thoughtful way and not moments before you have a procedure done.

MIL did the healthcare directive at the hospital just prior to cancer surgery then didnt bother telling the person she named anything about it. The ridiculous part is the person named is never available and very hard to get a hold of. Whenever DH tries, its days before he gets a return call.  There has been very little actual thought put into anything that has been done re MILs situation...its all just knee jerk reactions that once a little time passes, look like really bad decisions. 

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2013 11:39:56 GMT -5 whoami said:

Jun 6, 2013 9:17:28 GMT -5 @bonnap said:

Glad they are finally getting around to it. And all joking aside, one of the main reasons I urge people to go through the process IS to get the healthcare directive done. I know you can do this for free by getting paperwork at the hospital but I believe it should be done in a thoughtful way and not moments before you have a procedure done.

MIL did the healthcare directive at the hospital just prior to cancer surgery then didnt bother telling the person she named anything about it. The ridiculous part is the person named is never available and very hard to get a hold of. Whenever DH tries, its days before he gets a return call.  There has been very little actual thought put into anything that has been done re MILs situation...its all just knee jerk reactions that once a little time passes, look like really bad decisions. 

I hear you! You've probably read my posts dealing with my MIL's situation.

We're making slow progress. We had an appt set up with the attorney last week when she went into the hospital and we had to reschedule for next week.

DH is convinced that with her losing 17% of her remaining kidney function that she'll pass within the year. My biggest concern has been the way she set up her Pet Trust. Hugely complicated and she hasn't spoken to the woman in 3 years.

And MIL is going to be in a really bad situation when her 77 year old SIL moves 400 miles away. She's also the primary Health Directive person.

It's like watching a slow train wreck and unable to do anything to change the outcome... [img]http://images.proboards.com/new/sad.png[/img] 

[Pants]

Jun 6, 2013 8:01:58 GMT -5 bookkeeper said:

My parents worked through their wills, living trusts, living wills, and medical directives about 25 years ago.  They named me and my brother as executors and had me read the paperwork. 

Fast forward to today, they refuse to revisit anything to do with end of life financial planning.  They have an estate around 10M which is way bigger than it was 25 years ago.  My fear is that something is arranged incorrectly causing a large tax burden.  My brother has been hounding our parents about giving the money away to the government through the estate tax, so they have started gifting annual amounts into some accounts they set up for each sibling.

Two of my brothers married later in life to women that already had families.  My father is adamant that only blood relatives receive any money from his estate.  This should make for some fireworks around the Thanksgiving dinner table when the pie gets cut.

I feel they may be missing out on some opportunities for the next generation by standing pat on paperwork from 25 years ago.

Ummm - your brother is hounding your parents to fix their estate so they don't pay taxes?
If I were your parents I would tell him to shove it. It's their money, if they don't care enough to restructure it, they don't care enough. Sheesh.

[Pants]

Also - your parents' estate may be subject to the estate tax. That means they have lots of money. That's awesome! They want to give it to you guys - congratulations! It should be subject to estate tax, per the law.  

My parents project that they will have an estate that will be subject to the estate tax. Good. I am happy to pay the estate tax on that estate if it comes to that. I'll put that money where my mouth is.

[whoami]

Jun 6, 2013 11:54:01 GMT -5 @bonnap said:

Jun 6, 2013 11:39:56 GMT -5 whoami said:

MIL did the healthcare directive at the hospital just prior to cancer surgery then didnt bother telling the person she named anything about it. The ridiculous part is the person named is never available and very hard to get a hold of. Whenever DH tries, its days before he gets a return call.  There has been very little actual thought put into anything that has been done re MILs situation...its all just knee jerk reactions that once a little time passes, look like really bad decisions. 

I hear you! You've probably read my posts dealing with my MIL's situation.

We're making slow progress. We had an appt set up with the attorney last week when she went into the hospital and we had to reschedule for next week.

DH is convinced that with her losing 17% of her remaining kidney function that she'll pass within the year. My biggest concern has been the way she set up her Pet Trust. Hugely complicated and she hasn't spoken to the woman in 3 years.

And MIL is going to be in a really bad situation when her 77 year old SIL moves 400 miles away. She's also the primary Health Directive person.

It's like watching a slow train wreck and unable to do anything to change the outcome...  

Im the bad guy because I am operating from a practical logical standpoint. I have no emotional attachment to MIL at all. I feel bad for DH but I think a lot of the current situation is a direct result of everyone sticking their heads as far into the sand as possible. There has not been enough consulting with professionals and way too much just believing what she is telling him. I pointed out a significant error regarding their understanding of Prop 13 in Ca and inheriting property. That mistake could have cost thousands of dollars. I have no idea how it was ultimately resolved or if it even was. I had to step back for my own sanity. 

[greeniis10]

bsbound, I read bookkeeper's post NOT to mean that they are trying to avoid Estate taxes, but that some updates could/should be done to avoid unnecessary taxes due to updated situations or tax/law changes.  I could be wrong, however...

[Deleted]

whoami,

I know this is O-T but what was the issue regarding prop 13? You do know that a child CAN inherit a parent's property tax basis, correct?

With respect to my MIL, my DH is an only child. We can't duck it. And you know who will get stuck taking care of it anyway. I might as well take it head-on.

I'm just sad/angry that we spend so much time and effort "f"ing around with it instead of enjoying the time we have together while she's alive.

[thyme4change]

That is why I'm glad my parents are tackling this now, while the emotions are a little less frenzied.  Although, if I am correct and they have a decade or two, I hope their decisions are the right ones for the long-haul.  The lawyer is a good one, so I'm hoping she calls them every 10 years to make sure they don't need any updating.  Maybe they will believe her, even after they forgot who to trust.  

[bookkeeper]

Jun 6, 2013 12:37:53 GMT -5 greeniis10 said:

bsbound, I read bookkeeper's post NOT to mean that they are trying to avoid Estate taxes, but that some updates could/should be done to avoid unnecessary taxes due to updated situations or tax/law changes.  I could be wrong, however...

That's right, the tax rules for estates can and have changed on the federal and state level.  We are not looking to cheat anyone out of tax due, but we are not excited to pay inheritance tax that could have been avoided simply by writing a check once a year.

and bsbound is right, my brother would like to get his hands on a large chunk of "not his money" as soon as he could.  We have a saying in our house...."if it is your money, you would have it right now".

[Pants]

Jun 6, 2013 15:32:04 GMT -5 bookkeeper said:

Jun 6, 2013 12:37:53 GMT -5 greeniis10 said:

bsbound, I read bookkeeper's post NOT to mean that they are trying to avoid Estate taxes, but that some updates could/should be done to avoid unnecessary taxes due to updated situations or tax/law changes.  I could be wrong, however...

That's right, the tax rules for estates can and have changed on the federal and state level.  We are not looking to cheat anyone out of tax due, but we are not excited to pay inheritance tax that could have been avoided simply by writing a check once a year.

and bsbound is right, my brother would like to get his hands on a large chunk of "not his money" as soon as he could.  We have a saying in our house...."if it is your money, you would have it right now".

Except that your parents obviously don't want to write any of you those checks. So...

[whoami]

Jun 6, 2013 12:54:19 GMT -5 @bonnap said:

whoami,

I know this is O-T but what was the issue regarding prop 13? You do know that a child CAN inherit a parent's property tax basis, correct?

With respect to my MIL, my DH is an only child. We can't duck it. And you know who will get stuck taking care of it anyway. I might as well take it head-on.

I'm just sad/angry that we spend so much time and effort "f"ing around with it instead of enjoying the time we have together while she's alive.

 Yes but they cannot inherit the house 50/50 and then have one sibling buy out the other. They will lose at least part of the exemption if not all of it.  There is an attorney but no one seems to be paying attention to what he is telling them. 

DH is not an only child but he may as well be. Another case of a worthless sibling who is only coming around now that there is an inheritance in the wings. 

You are right that a lot of time that could be spent doing positive things is being spent being dealing with stupid shit that should have been addressed long ago. Its really gonna hit the fan in the not so distant future. Her house is unsuitable for any type of home health care workers to be in. She is adamant that she is staying in the house.  I have no idea what is going to happen. 

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2013 20:38:55 GMT -5 whoami said:

Jun 6, 2013 12:54:19 GMT -5 @bonnap said:

whoami,

I know this is O-T but what was the issue regarding prop 13? You do know that a child CAN inherit a parent's property tax basis, correct?

With respect to my MIL, my DH is an only child. We can't duck it. And you know who will get stuck taking care of it anyway. I might as well take it head-on.

I'm just sad/angry that we spend so much time and effort "f"ing around with it instead of enjoying the time we have together while she's alive.

 Yes but they cannot inherit the house 50/50 and then have one sibling buy out the other. They will lose at least part of the exemption if not all of it.  There is an attorney but no one seems to be paying attention to what he is telling them. 

DH is not an only child but he may as well be. Another case of a worthless sibling who is only coming around now that there is an inheritance in the wings. 

You are right that a lot of time that could be spent doing positive things is being spent being dealing with stupid shit that should have been addressed long ago. Its really gonna hit the fan in the not so distant future. Her house is unsuitable for any type of home health care workers to be in. She is adamant that she is staying in the house.  I have no idea what is going to happen.