How many kids can you fit into a 950 sq ft house?

[TheOtherMe]

I would not want to live the way either of my parents did when they grew up.  My dad's family: Grandma had her 12 babies in 15 years, so no breaks.  It's no wonder his oldest sister, who did a lot of child rearing, only had one child.  My mom's mother had her 13 children over 20 years, so the oldest boys were off to serve in WWII by the time the youngest came along.  Her oldest sister, however, had a child out of wedlock and they stayed in the house until she married several years later.

When I was in college, Boulder, CO had a law about no more than 3 unrelated people living in a rental property. A group of us from the campus church group rented a five bedroom house.  There were 7 of us.  Lucky for us, the mayor at the time was on the board of directors of the campus church group and, when we got in trouble, she went to bat for us and we got to stay.  The place had 4 tiny bathrooms, so we really were not on top of each other--and there was only one couple and they were a couple before they moved in.  Were not a couple by the time we all were done with school.  That was uncomfortable.

I think the every kid has to have their own bedroom and bathroom is overkill if you have more than a couple of kids.  Probably because I didn't grow up with my own bathroom and shared before I owned my own home.

[TheOtherMe]

At one time, I hired a house cleaner who was came here from Mexico.  She told me she was legal.  Anyway, she and her two children and her sister, sister's hubby and her kids shared an apartment.  By the time I moved, she had a baby and her boyfriend living there.  I drove her home and there is no way they could have afford to have lived in that nice of a place without sharing.  They lived in a nice complex and all four adults were employed.  

[zibazinski]

If you have a LL who doesn't care, then so be it, but if I rent to a family of 5 and find out I have 10 living there, out they all go. It isn't easy but the most I'd be stuck with them is a year. You don't have to have any reason to not renew a lease. 10 people do more wear and tear on a rental than 5 do. Even 5 are hard on it. I have a long term tenant who has 4 kids. The rental is 3 bedroom and I know the interior will need a complete re-do when she finally moves out. I've financially planned for it. But she's been there and paying rent for more than ten years. Shoot, she could have bought the house by now. 

[formerroomate99]

In the dorm I lived in Freshman year, 80 women shared 4 toilets and 4 shower stalls.  When one girl got chickenpox, it went down to 3 and 3 since nobody wanted to use the toilet and shower she was using.  It wasn't nearly as bad as it sounds.  I occasionally had to wait to use the toilet and just got used to showering in the middle of the day instead of dealing with the morning rush. 

Other posters have made a good point, that if we want other people to become self sufficient multiple families sharing a space is a good way to pool resources, and having rules keeping folks from doing this will keep people down.  Now, I would definitely draw the line somewhere before you have 3 families and 15 people sharing 950 sq ft, but again, I maintain that as long as you aren't running afoul of some maximum occupancy permit, it really isn't anybody's business whether or not you're related. 

[thyme4change]

It is amazing how many hours of the day nobody is sitting on either of our toilets.  

[raeoflyte]

Jun 2, 2013 19:24:11 GMT -5 cubefarmer said:

I don't think that is acceptable at all. I am surprised at how many people think this is do-able or okay. 12 kids plus 3 adults is 15 people- that is 5 people per bedroom. That is overcrowding and wrong. Somewhere something is being violated - Section 8 rules, lease, city code, Child Protective Services rules - something.

What do you suggest they do instead? I doubt they are living that way for fun.

And with kids under 7 I don't see any problem sharing a room with mom. Not that I want to go back to the old days, but my mom had lots of friends who had a boys room, and a girl's room, and however many kids there were just piled into the bed. Her friends always wanted to spend the night at her house because she was the only girl so only one person to share with.

[muttleynfelix]

Jun 3, 2013 10:42:09 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jun 2, 2013 19:24:11 GMT -5 cubefarmer said:

I don't think that is acceptable at all. I am surprised at how many people think this is do-able or okay. 12 kids plus 3 adults is 15 people- that is 5 people per bedroom. That is overcrowding and wrong. Somewhere something is being violated - Section 8 rules, lease, city code, Child Protective Services rules - something.

What do you suggest they do instead? I doubt they are living that way for fun.

And with kids under 7 I don't see any problem sharing a room with mom. Not that I want to go back to the old days, but my mom had lots of friends who had a boys room, and a girl's room, and however many kids there were just piled into the bed. Her friends always wanted to spend the night at her house because she was the only girl so only one person to share with.

While less than ideal, I doubt if they had the means they would be living in a house that small.  Isn't sharing housing exactly a recommendation YM makes to save money? To provide for your own kids? Etc.  If the kids are fed, clothed, relatively clean, and not abused, it isn't anyone's business even if the situation sort of sucks.

[thyme4change]

Hundreds of generations, large families have lived in very little square footage.  Most homes were 1 or 2 rooms, and all 10 of them piled in together.  I don't want to live that way, and I would certainly find it strange in the average American home, but I don't think anyone is in any danger or anything.

[raeoflyte]

They are probably most in danger of learning conflict resolution skills.

[973beachbum]

I also doubt that they only have people sleeping in the bedrooms.  Our old house only had three bedrooms but the dining room had clearly been converted into a bedroom at some point.  So in the case with twelve kids and three adults it would be closer to four per bedroom, including the converted dining room.  Someone, or two, could have also slept on the couch in the living room.  Although it isn't ideal it isn't the horror people think at first.

We have had one bathroom for my entire adult life.  It really isn't a problem.  People just naturally don't take their time and relax in a bathroom when they know there are others who need to use it.  I am sure that people also use the bathroom at the same time a lot.  Why does someone need the room to themself to brush their teeth?  

[thyme4change]

I agree with Tennesser that this may be some kind of shelter or something for domestic abuse.  Although I am glad they exist, I hear those houses come with a whole pile of problems and can cause issues for the neighborhood.  I hope your street doesn't have any problems with the residents.

[muttleynfelix]

I also doubt that they only have people sleeping in the bedrooms. Our old house only had three bedrooms but the dining room had clearly been converted into a bedroom at some point. So in the case with twelve kids and three adults it would be closer to four per bedroom, including the converted dining room. Someone, or two, could have also slept on the couch in the living room. Although it isn't ideal it isn't the horror people think at first.

The family in my area that had got an Extreme Makeover Home addition had 6 kids in a 2 bedroom - 800 sq foot house.  Well, only 2 of those kids are biologically theirs - 4 of them arrived when CPS knocked on their door and told them your sister is going to jail, you have 20 min to decide if you can take her 4 kids in.  Anyway, they had 2 kids sleeping in one bedroom, then bunkbeds in the "dining room" and bunk beds fit in the laundry area as well.  Definitely not ideal, but everyone was happy, healthy, loved, and fed. 

[thyme4change]

My friend has triplets and another child, and the triplets used to push their beds together so they could all sleep together, and then the other kid got lonely, so he started sleeping in there, too.  She has a huge house, but they would all sleep in one or two big beds in one room.  LOL.  

They have spread out now that they are a bit older, but they still share two bedrooms between the 4 kids.  One of the rooms has a boy and a girl share it.  They just change in the bathroom.  

[zibazinski]

It's different if you own the home vs. renting it.

[NastyWoman]

Jun 3, 2013 13:10:36 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

It's different if you own the home vs. renting it.

Not with respect to the question posed by the OP. 950 sq ft is 950 sq ft whether you own or rent.  That is not to say that I can't see a LL point of view.  For him/her it is only about the investment. But to take your own example of the family with 4 kids who have lived in your house for 10 years now and how you will need some major work if/when they leave: after 10 years that is to be expected and just normal wear and tear.  And to just state that it is because of the number of kids is not necessarily true. Two adult slobs can do a lot more damage to a place than a family with 4 or more well behaved kids.  I think people need to look at the bigger picture and not just consider their preconceived ideas.

[zibazinski]

Perhaps but the norm is that the more people, the more wear and tear. If the LL is aware that more than normal occupancy is happening and does nothing about it, there can be some liability involved. Perhaps this isn't a rental but ill bet it is. 

[Deleted]

Jun 1, 2013 13:17:17 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"I wonder if the landlord renting out the place the OP described had any idea how many people were going to be living there when the lease was signed. I probably wouldn't make a fuss about it either as long as they kept the place in decent shape and the kids appeared to be treated well.":::...

I've heard a few stories like this, and what zib said too.  One guy I knew found out 15 people (3 Vietnamese families) were living in his 2Br/2bath townhouse.

Now, I'm sure that you can put a "maximum occupant" restriction in the lease, and I'm sure that you can try to have caps on "extended guests" (not to exceed 14 consecutive days and/or 16 days per month)  but once they are in your house, they are in your house and will try to get away with whatever they can.

I'd go ahead and do research such as what zoning allows and the name and address of the owner of the property. In CA maximum occupancy (assuming 3br and a living room) would be 2 people per bedroom + 2 = 8 people. Like @anne81 said, these people may be nice but ultimately they are going to have an effect on the neighborhood.

[Deleted]

Jun 3, 2013 22:34:20 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Jun 3, 2013 13:10:36 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

It's different if you own the home vs. renting it.

Not with respect to the question posed by the OP. 950 sq ft is 950 sq ft whether you own or rent.  That is not to say that I can't see a LL point of view.  For him/her it is only about the investment. But to take your own example of the family with 4 kids who have lived in your house for 10 years now and how you will need some major work if/when they leave: after 10 years that is to be expected and just normal wear and tear.  And to just state that it is because of the number of kids is not necessarily true. Two adult slobs can do a lot more damage to a place than a family with 4 or more well behaved kids.  I think people need to look at the bigger picture and not just consider their preconceived ideas.

And some LLs are horribly naive. One of my favorite LL stories is when a former boss of mine rented a house to a nice mexican couple. He thought everything checked out until about 6 months later when the rent wasn't paid. He couldn locate them, went to the door and found that it had been used as a "drop house" for illegals. According to the neighbors up to 25 people had lived in the house at one time. At some point the toilet stopped working and they started using the bathtub.

He couldn't find anyone who would clean the house so he had to do it himself.

I've never had this kind of situation but did remember it. I always speak to the neighbors of my rentals, give them my contact info and tell them do not hesitate to call. I don't want to be a bad neighbor or a slumlord!

[toomuchreality]

Jun 1, 2013 11:46:02 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

I have a small house too. It's 1,000 sq ft with only one bathroom, no garage. There are 4 of us and I would hate my life every second of every day if 11 other people suddenly moved in. It might be slightly bearable in the warm weather, when you can send the kids out of the house to play, but what about during the winter when everyone is stuck inside? I'm sure there are many more people that live like this. It's just unimaginable to me. I am curious about their sleeping arrangements. I imagined one bedroom per family. All of the kids are 7 and under.

The house is a rental and this neighborhood does not have a HOA. I don't know about zoning laws. I'm not going to try and get them in trouble or anything. I'm sure they are just doing what they need to do in order to get by.

I'm not all about getting other people in trouble either. But don't you have to listen to a lot of screaming and crying?
That would put me over the edge. Personally, I couldn't deal with that.

I live in an apt that is just over 600 sq feet, with one bath (by myself). I can deal with a visit, but not someone staying with me. There's just not enough room, plus you have to go in to the bedroom to get to the bathroom, so there's no privacy. Here they have a 6 day rule (even for the bigger apts). You can't have anyone stay with you for more than 6 days. And they do enforce it.

My apt overlooks the pool, noise is expected. I love it. But there have been many times I wanted to go shut someone's kid up, because the parent didn't.       They might enjoy listening to their children, or be able to tune them out, but I don't/can't.    And I don't think I should have to, beyond reason.
It is surprising how well noise carries to the apts surrounding the pool (there's nothing to block or absorb it.). Either people don't realize this, or they are just jerks. I have heard some interesting conversations, and am much more aware/respectful of what's around me now.

I don't do screaming, crying children.

I rented one side of a duplex once. The guy in the other half had a key to my side, to help the owner out. Before I moved in, he decided to have a garage sell of sorts over a few day period, in my side of the place! He didn't want to have the mess or the people in his side. When I asked the owner about it, he was unaware and less than pleased. But he was grateful to know about it.


Are you sure the kids are well cared for?


Wow. Just wow.

[formerroomate99]

In my area there is a neighborhood with 950 sq ft houses.  3 cars can fit in the driveway and two more can park out front, so parking wouldn't be an issue.  And the houses are far enough apart so that screaming kids inside wouldn't bother the neighbors.  Now if the kids are outside screaming all the time, that would probably annoy a more sensitive neighbor, nothing that closed windows and some decent insulation couldn't handle. 

Even before I had kids, screaming crying children didn't annoy me nearly as much as perpetually barking dogs, loud, crappy music, or that asshat that insisted on reving his motorcycle outside my place at 3 am every single night. 

[zibazinski]

It's great that no one sits on your toilets all the time but usually the bathrooms are crowded in the mornings because all are trying to get ready at the same time and also need to use the facilities. I remember my grandma telling me she made my grandpa go out in the backyard to pee one time because the 4 girls and her needed to get ready for school and work. He ended p shaving in the garage most mornings. If you weren't using the toilet, you had to use the kitchen sink for face washing and teeth brushing.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"And some LLs are horribly naive ... According to the neighbors up to 25 people had lived in the house at one time.":::...

Exactly...  They are going to be sweet as pie when they are trying to get into your house.  Once you hand over the keys and leave, you have no way of knowing what they are really doing.  Without friendly helpful neighbors and/or spot checks, who knows what could happen.