Even Mubarak didn't resort to this...

[deziloooooo]

PAGING HOWARD ZINN: WISCONSIN GOV BRINGING IN NATIONAL GUARD TO BREAK PUBLIC UNION - Republican Scott Walker is pulling a Pullman in the Badger State, threatening to bring in troops to battle teachers, cops and other public workers he considers overpaid. Walker doesn't even bother to argue that the goal is to improve education or public safety -- it is explicitly to bust the union. AP: "Gov. Scott Walker says the Wisconsin National Guard is prepared to respond wherever is necessary in the wake of his announcement that he wants to take away nearly all collective bargaining rights from state employees. Walker said Friday that he hasn't called the Guard into action, but he has briefed them and other state agencies in preparation of any problems that could result in a disruption of state services, like staffing at prisons. Walker says he has every confidence that state employees will continue to show up for work and do their jobs and he's not anticipating any problems. His plan would require higher pension and health insurance contributions and remove bargaining rights except in a limited way over wages"

[safeharbor37]

27 August 1950
President Truman ordered the U.S. Army to seize all the nation's railroads to prevent a general strike. The railroads were not returned to their owners until two years later.

www.lutins.org/labor.html
Some people are cursed [blessed?] with a highly selective memory.

[deziloooooo]

Feb 11, 2011 23:36:53 GMT -5 safeharbor37 said:

27 August 1950
President Truman ordered the U.S. Army to seize all the nation's railroads to prevent a general strike. The railroads were not returned to their owners until two years later.

www.lutins.org/labor.html
Some people are cursed [blessed?] with a highly selective memory.

I remember that , we were at war , and I remember the coal head John L Lewis being carried to Jail in a chair from his office....
----------------------------------------------------------------
In the steel industry..we use to have one you know.. , 38 companies settled and had good relations with their workers..unions recognized but there were five who felt differently...
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Five of the corporations in the steel industry elected to resist collective bargaining and undertook to destroy the steel workers' union. These companies filled their plants with industrial spies, assembled depots of guns and gas bombs, established barricades, controlled their communities with armed thugs, leased the police power of cities and mobilized the military power of a state to guard them against the intrusion of collective bargaining within their plants.

During this strike 18 steel workers were either shot to death or had their brains clubbed out by police, or armed thugs in the pay of the steel companies. In Chicago, Mayor Kelly's police force was successful in killing ten strikers before they could escape the fury of the police, shooting eight of them in the back. One hundred sixty strikers were maimed and injured by police clubs, riot guns and gas bombs and were hospitalized. Hundreds of strikers were arrested, jailed, treated with brutality while incarcerated and harassed by succeeding litigation. None but strikers were murdered, gassed, injured, jailed or maltreated. No one had to die except the workers who were standing for the right guaranteed them by the Congress and written in the law
------------------------------------------------------------

Granted many employers were fair minded employers..respected their workers..however there were so many who didn't feel this way...thing is, most of the readers here have no clue what this article means..it wasn't the dark ages..so many of those family men didn't go home to their families during that strike...alive that is.

[Deleted]

This is going to be a huge week in Wis. Friends and relatives on both sides of this. Will stay far from the capital this week and see where the chips fall.

[deziloooooo]

Feb 13, 2011 16:23:29 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

This is going to be a huge week in Wis. Friends and relatives on both sides of this. Will stay far from the capital this week and see where the chips fall.

His threatening to call out the national Guar, has it really gotten to this...are the Police and fire threatening to go on strike, many locals it is illegal for them to do so, they do report..they do serve and protect but they also at times follow the letter of the law, all legal, dot every , cross every T , enforce each and every statute, which means a slow down in many cases....for me, I guess all fair in love and war.

Problem is so many communities while they need the services of they can't pay the tab...no how and more taxes..blood from a stone..
It's hitting this year, Obama's stimulus..a lot went into fire , education, police..holding off the inevitable layoffs for a year..keeping them on the job...not collecting..now layoffs so they collect first the States will be hit and if a federal extension then the federal which will p off the Tea Party.
Easy to come up with mandated of but then some one has to step in and handle the fall out of the mandates.

This Governor now having to pay for the calling out of the troops of he calls them out , a unexpected expense and if they are to take the place of the police and fire...you have to be kidding.
Possible walk, OK drive the beat in Humvee with M-60's loaded...great.

[Gardening Grandma]

Feb 13, 2011 16:23:29 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

This is going to be a huge week in Wis. Friends and relatives on both sides of this. Will stay far from the capital this week and see where the chips fall.

I was wondering how this was playing out in Wis..........

[Deleted]

It's really sad it has come down to this. The well is dry. I don't doubt that Walker will do whatever he has to. "nothing to negotiate, there is no money" Politics is definitely a subject to steer clear of this week in this state.

[deziloooooo]

I am a little confused by the article that was posted. Is the guard if activated, there to replace fire, police, prison officials, state officials who don't show up to work..to arrest if they violate civil disobedience.
with in the collective bargaining..if the state is broke, has to cut , why not just institute a cut back , furlough of x among personnel till they get to what they can afford?
Give the leaders of the unions..up to them how to best cut efficiently. What is guard needed for?

[Deleted]

The guard is apparantly needed as they think people will walk off the job to rally at the capital. They have been warned that they will be terminated if that happens. I think his main concern is the prisons.

[Deleted]

He is proposing this to avoid thousands of layoffs. They have been doing the furloughs for quite some time now.

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

Frankly, I applaud a Governor who has the foresight to put his state's National Guard on alert to handle critical functions when union members refuse to do the job they were hired to perform. Unions should not be allowed to hold public safety hostage.

[deziloooooo]

Feb 13, 2011 21:25:22 GMT -5 Mad Dawg Wiccan said:

Frankly, I applaud a Governor who has the foresight to put his state's National Guard on alert to handle critical functions when union members refuse to do the job they were hired to perform. Unions should not be allowed to hold public safety hostage.

True but they do have the right to bargain , collectively..has the governor and his top executives taken the same cuts in benefits and salary % as the ones he is now cutting..just wondering.

According to the article he wants to unilaterally stop collective bargaining on many issues..not negotiate them , just by decree..think I would be upset too.

National guardsman going to answer fires, drive and use the equipment if needed..staff the prisons. If a situation arises , be able to bring under control with out useing dedly force?..These things do happen and usually prisoners survive them you know.

[Deleted]

It is a little scary but yes he has taken a substantial decrease in his own pay .His decision and I can't remember the amount.

[handyman2]

The chickens have come home to roost it seems and other states will soon face the same issues. My guess is that the guard will be just to keep law and order which is normally their mandate. When times were good yielding to union demands was no big deal but now the Crisis is upon them and no one wants to budge. The answer will be a tough call.

[deziloooooo]

Feb 13, 2011 21:50:33 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

The chickens have come home to roost it seems and other states will soon face the same issues. My guess is that the guard will be just to keep law and order which is normally their mandate. When times were good yielding to union demands was no big deal but now the Crisis is upon them and no one wants to budge. The answer will be a tough call.

I've never belonged to a union, few times benefited for a couple years when had a summer job out of school, the pay was GREAT compared to what I would have gotten in other jobs, worked at a wire factory , and bench work, and don't blame unions on the ills of the country, however , when times are like this and communities are stuck as they are through no fault of their own , in most cases, then unions have to cooperate or if won't, workers let go cut , laid off, keep workers to a minimum.
It's not that a worker, cop, fireman, what ever, isn't worth the $ they are earning, some aren't , or time on job gives them inflated wages, negotiated true, but another story, it's what community can afford to pay.

[jkapp]

Feb 13, 2011 20:37:53 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

I am a little confused by the article that was posted. Is the guard if activated, there to replace fire, police, prison officials, state officials who don't show up to work..to arrest if they violate civil disobedience.
with in the collective bargaining..if the state is broke, has to cut , why not just institute a cut back , furlough of x among personnel till they get to what they can afford?
Give the leaders of the unions..up to them how to best cut efficiently. What is guard needed for?

As far as I know through reading this issue in our local papers, this change does not yet affect police and fire officials. My guess is the Nat'l Guard was put on alert in case of massive demonstrations.

But I feel unions should not be allowed for public employees...having "colective bargaining" to steal more money from local resident's wallets is not what I would deem to be a "fair" situation. The teachers here always say how their pay and benefits should increase because they want to support the children...but what the hell do the children have to do with the teachers' pay and benefits??? They just use the children as an excuse to line their pockets and its just sickening.

[deziloooooo]

"having "collective bargaining" to steal more money from local resident's wallets is not what I would deem to be a "fair" situation."

It is a thing of our times that so few belong to unions today, that the history of why they are part of our system is lost and also many think they are the cause of all out woes. Yes there was the Teamsters and their misuse of funds and corruption from their top leaders, but the teamsters came into being for a reason and a good one, that it was taken over by the "Gangsters " and corrupt leadership is just something that can happen when a lot of cash is involved, leadership becomes tempted and over sites are not there.

Granted there are a lot of folks out of work and desperate today, but still millions working and earning incomes. Possible unions may not be necessary any more, possible management will be fair with the workers , look out for their interests , well binging as partners in the businesses as well as the welfare of the companies they run. Make sure the workers share fairly in the profits the companies earn, and there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow too.

If so then there is no reason for that...though once a lot of these % of unemployed are brought down to what ever acceptable levels will be accepted as normal, not sure if 4/5 % will be the figure in the future, time will tell, expect it will be higher personally, and those working see what they are being paid and how they really can't do much more then , eat, rent...survive, yet companies reporting very goos earnings...they may rethink their current feelings of unions to represent them to get a better life then just existing . Just a feeling there.

"The teachers here always say how their pay and benefits should increase because they want to support the children...but what the hell do the children have to do with the teachers' pay and benefits??? "

I think they might be referring to their kids...be able to support and educate them. Depending on the States..some reward a educated class very well, thinking , New England States, Connecticut/Massachusetts , specifically, New York State...and then others , really suck when it comes to teachers salaries.

Remember..one does not go into a class room to teach with a high school degree..need a college degree , many HAVE to , with in a period of time have their masters, educated employee , need to pay for that.

[Gardening Grandma]

I think what gave me cause for pause is that he did not act in response to any sort of deadlock. There have been no shortages of instances where unions have made concessions. His action was preemptive and that smacks of control issues. It leaves one wondering if the budget simply gave him some cover for a power grab. And it makes me wonder if we are going to see other Pub gov's try the same thing....

[deziloooooo]

Feb 14, 2011 18:51:46 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

I think what gave me cause for pause is that he did not act in response to any sort of deadlock. There have been no shortages of instances where unions have made concessions. His action was preemptive and that smacks of control issues. It leaves one wondering if the budget simply gave him some cover for a power grab. And it makes me wonder if we are going to see other Pub gov's try the same thing....

I am thinking most states, governors are reluctant to call out the guard. It's costly..they are being stressed by the deployments too..used when needed, not for political problems.

[Gardening Grandma]

I hope you're right Desi.....I'd really hate to see this sort of thing become a trend...

[Gardening Grandma]

On a more local level, a nearby sherriff's office gave the union a choice: Either the deputies agreed to take a pay cut or several positions would have to be eliminated. They put it to a vote and a large majority voted for the cut.
The Wis gov COULD have tried a similar approach before going draconian.

[Gardening Grandma]

Sroo4
Thank you for posting. I've been wondering how the folks directly affected felt.
(I'm using an iPhone with an app so I can't give you karma right now, but I will as soon as I'm on my desk puter)

[vonnie6200]

Feb 14, 2011 20:14:46 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

On a more local level, a nearby sherriff's office gave the union a choice: Either the deputies agreed to take a pay cut or several positions would have to be eliminated. They put it to a vote and a large majority voted for the cut.
The Wis gov COULD have tried a similar approach before going draconian.

They tried that in my part of Illinois and the vote went the other way - screw the new guys

[pappyjohn99]

PAGING HOWARD ZINN: WISCONSIN GOV BRINGING IN NATIONAL GUARD TO BREAK PUBLIC UNION

Wrong. No cause for alarm. The Wisconsin National Guard won't be gunning liberals down any time soon.

host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_03b2b8f2-38a2-11e0-913e-001cc4c002e0.html

Google anyone??

[olderburgher]

If the Governor tries this kind of draconian stunt instead of a measured response and sensible approaches (i.e. put his grandstand politics aside), there really will be hell to pay.

[b2r]

As pappyjohn has pointed out...........What would you have the state CEO do, prepare for a worst-case scenario or not?

Misconceptions spread over National Guard's role in Walker budget proposal

Gov. Scott Walker has been in communication with the Wisconsin National Guard to help run the state's prisons should correction officers stay home in protest over proposed changes to collective bargaining rules for public employees.

host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_03b2b8f2-38a2-11e0-913e-001cc4c002e0.html

[Gardening Grandma]

Feb 15, 2011 10:54:57 GMT -5 b2r said:

As pappyjohn has pointed out...........What would you have the state CEO do, prepare for a worst-case scenario or not?

Misconceptions spread over National Guard's role in Walker budget proposal

Gov. Scott Walker has been in communication with the Wisconsin National Guard to help run the state's prisons should correction officers stay home in protest over proposed changes to collective bargaining rules for public employees.

host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_03b2b8f2-38a2-11e0-913e-001cc4c002e0.html

Sounds to me like his spokesperson is walking back a bit....
Gov. Scott Walker says the Wisconsin National Guard is prepared to respond wherever is necessary in the wake of his announcement that he wants to take away nearly all collective bargaining rights from state employees.

Walker said Friday that he hasn't called the Guard into action, but he has briefed them and other state agencies in preparation of any problems that could result in a disruption of state services, like staffing at prisons.

[b2r]

Feb 15, 2011 11:19:45 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Feb 15, 2011 10:54:57 GMT -5 b2r said:

As pappyjohn has pointed out...........What would you have the state CEO do, prepare for a worst-case scenario or not?

Misconceptions spread over National Guard's role in Walker budget proposal

Gov. Scott Walker has been in communication with the Wisconsin National Guard to help run the state's prisons should correction officers stay home in protest over proposed changes to collective bargaining rules for public employees.

host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_03b2b8f2-38a2-11e0-913e-001cc4c002e0.html

Sounds to me like his spokesperson is walking back a bit....
Gov. Scott Walker says the Wisconsin National Guard is prepared to respond wherever is necessary in the wake of his announcement that he wants to take away nearly all collective bargaining rights from state employees.

Walker said Friday that he hasn't called the Guard into action, but he has briefed them and other state agencies in preparation of any problems that could result in a disruption of state services, like staffing at prisons.

It's hard to know what the op was referring to, no link.
I do remember seeing military in the streets of Cairo, but have yet to see them on the nightly news in Madison.

[Gardening Grandma]

I do remember seeing military in the streets of Cairo, but have yet to see them on the nightly news in Madison.

I remember seeing them at Berkeley on the evening news. It was disturbing.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I think it would be irresponsible not to have a back up plan in the event that public servants refuse to do their jobs providing emergency services to the public. The National Guard wasn't "called in", simply briefed.

To imply anything else is just propaganda from those who favor continued public employee extortion.