Fighting with kids in the house

[thyme4change]

www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/04/29/179237081/shhh-the-kids-can-hear-you-arguing-even-when-theyre-asleep

For years now, psychologists have been telling couples who yell at one another to stop for the sake of the kids. Such conflict in the home — even when no violence is involved — is associated with a host of negative behavioral and life outcomes for children.

Some strands of research have gone so far as to suggest that dissolving a marriage might be better for kids than exposing them to high levels of conflict within a bad marriage.

Psychologists Alice Graham, Philip Fisher and Jennifer Pfeifer decided to take a look at what happens inside the brains of infants when they hear conflict and angry voices. The approach was straightforward: Use a noninvasive brain-scanning technique known as fMRI to scan the brains of infants and identify, in real time, which areas of the brain are activated by angry voices.

Graham, a doctoral student at the school, said the most surprising thing was not that the brains of infants responded differently to the different tones — which suggests that the brain is more than capable of taking in information while a child is asleep — but that there were stark differences among the children. Infants who came from homes with lots of conflict, where the parents yelled at one another and called each other unpleasant names, showed a heightened activation in certain areas of the brain.

The scientists acknowledged that it's not immediately clear what the findings mean. If the infants from high-conflict homes are especially reactive to angry voices, this could be consistent with the studies that have found that conflict in the homes is psychologically damaging for children. On the other hand, it's also possible that the heightened activation is connected with the way the brain develops resilience: The brain activation might point to the possibility that the infants were learning to deal with high conflict. The only way to find out would be to follow such children over time and see what happens to them. Graham says the study is just a first step toward understanding the role of early influences in how children come to process conflict.

And as for advice to quarreling parents, she says, the bottom line might be simple: Your kids are listening to you, even when they are asleep.

We never fight - my husband is totally against it.  When things get bad between us, he gives me the silent treatment for an hour, and then we talk it out.  He is beyond rational and is ridiculous about keeping the peace.  I've always wondered if that is why my kids have such an easy-going-ness about them.

[Deleted]

We don't really fight in front of the kids anymore, but we have in the past.  No, they weren't knock down drag out fights, and no we didn't call each other horrible names, but we would argue when we were younger.  Now we are too old to fight.

[Formerly SK]

We don't really fight (as in the classic "raised voices" type of fighting).  And when we do have an issue to work through, we tend to do it after the kids have gone to bed just so we can talk about the issue without the kids constantly interrupting us.  I hadn't really thought our pattern was better for the kids as I think there is something to be said for learning how to resolve conflict by watching your parents do it, but so far we haven't operated that way.

I know a few couples who yell/fight with their spouses a lot.  They are just more blunt and argumentative personalities in general.  Their kids seem to be louder and more argumentative than my kids, but I figure that is more of a personality thing than some sort of brain damage from having combative parents.  I think the kids just learn from an early age to be an Alpha otherwise they'd get lost amidst all the other Alphas in the family. 

[Phoenix84]

Unsurprising, kids, especially young kids are like spounges who hear everything you say.  It's why they say it's good to talk to your kids a lot.

Though conflict is part of any relationship.  I don't know if I'd promote NEVER fighting because then things just get bottled up and simmer and that's not good for you or the relationship.  So I'm not sure if the article is saying never fight, or just don't yell.

Personally I'm usually not one to yell and scream when I get angry.  I hardly see the point.  I'm kind of the opposite, when I'm really angry, I get really quiet and won't talk to anyone. 

[Bob Ross]

We never fight - my husband is totally against it. When things get bad between us, he gives me the silent treatment for an hour, and then we talk it out. He is beyond rational and is ridiculous about keeping the peace. I've always wondered if that is why my kids have such an easy-going-ness about them.

An thus, are now ripe pickings for bullies. 

On a related note, I wonder if being exposed to parental-fight-based household object throwing will subliminally give a child a rocket fastball or million-dollar quarterback arm?

Only one way to find out.

[Peace Of Mind]

Apr 30, 2013 17:31:38 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

If my husband ever gave me the silent treatment when I was mad I'd smother him in his sleep. 

Wouldn't that promote more silent treatment?   And start to stink? 

Thank God I never procreated.  DH and I bicker and I'm a screamer.  We also verbally fight. 

[formerroomate99]

We never fight - my husband is totally against it. When things get bad between us, he gives me the silent treatment for an hour, and then we talk it out. He is beyond rational and is ridiculous about keeping the peace. I've always wondered if that is why my kids have such an easy-going-ness about them.

My oldest is the definition of mellow. The first 3 years after he was born, we were getting into screaming matches on a pretty regular basis. 

[Jaguar]

Apr 30, 2013 17:36:09 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

Apr 30, 2013 17:31:38 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

If my husband ever gave me the silent treatment when I was mad I'd smother him in his sleep. 

Wouldn't that promote more silent treatment?   And start to stink? 

Thank God I never procreated.  DH and I bicker and I'm a screamer.  We also verbally fight. 

POM think of your poor poor kitties, your traumatizing the cats.

[midjd]

Maybe that's why kitty dumped champagne in the computer!

[Jaguar]

Apr 30, 2013 18:34:36 GMT -5 midjd said:

Maybe that's why kitty dumped champagne in the computer!

Well yeah kitty knew enough to do that.

[midjd]

The scientists acknowledged that it's not immediately clear what the findings mean. If the infants from high-conflict homes are especially reactive to angry voices, this could be consistent with the studies that have found that conflict in the homes is psychologically damaging for children. On the other hand, it's also possible that the heightened activation is connected with the way the brain develops resilience: The brain activation might point to the possibility that the infants were learning to deal with high conflict. The only way to find out would be to follow such children over time and see what happens to them. Graham says the study is just a first step toward understanding the role of early influences in how children come to process conflict.

I hope they continue this study - knowing the outcomes would be very interesting.

My parents fought pretty constantly until they divorced. I was 13, my siblings were 6 and 7 - so I was exposed about twice as long. I construct arguments for a living; my brother is the class clown mediator type who is beloved by everyone (very stereotypical middle child); my sister is a nurse who deals with conflict all day but tolerates none in her personal life.

I remember being awake for some of their arguments... my mom was always so calm and logical while my dad was completely irrational. She'd get in a good zinger and I'd be like, "yeah!!" That has definitely bled over into my professional life.

Lawyer jokes aside, none of us are noticeably psychologically damaged, so that's good.

[Malarky]

DH and I fight occasionally, then we work it out.  Our kids have learned couples don't always get along.  But that fighting isn't he end of the world. 

I believe it to be part of learning conflict resolution. 


While I don't intentionally pick fights, I certainly don't hide it if I'm angry about something.

Hopefully they won't spend years in therapy because I didn't wrap them in bubble wrap and protect them from everything. 

They seem to be well adjusted...  

[Deleted]

Never arguing isn't great either. My friends husband honest to goodness thinks he grew up in a 50s sitcom. He has a hard time functioning in a relationship where grown ups don't always have a smile and aren't always in total agreement. It took a long time for them to work it out till he realized that what his parents showed him wasn't really real.... His sisters had it even worse.

edited to clean up horrible pecking... I must proofread!

or maybe drinking would actually help at this point?

[Peace Of Mind]

Apr 30, 2013 19:08:33 GMT -5 oped said:

Never arguing isn't great either. My friends husband honest to goodness thinks he grew up in a 50s sitcom. He has a hard time functioning in a relationship where gon ups don't Kay's have a smile nd re in octal agreement. It took a long time or them to work it out till he relzed that what his parents sowed him wasn't really real.... His sisters had it even worse.

Still at happy hour?    If I read that correctly I agree that arguing in a healthy way teaches kids to not fear anger when expressed and how to deal when they encounter it.

Sug and Mid, LMAO!!! 

[Deleted]

Never having had a single argument in an entire relationship sounds super weird to me.  I was in a relationship like that when I was in HS - turned out there was a lot that was going unsaid that should have been addressed.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I just remember in grade school, I had a friend on the block.  She was at my house all the time and never wanted to go home because her parents were always yelling and screaming at one another.  It made her a nervous wreck.  My parents had disagreements, but I don't ever remember them yelling at one another or calling names or anything like that.  I'd be so sad if my kids (if I had any) hated to come home because of the atmosphere there.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

My parents' marriage was pretty volatile when I was a kid, especially when my brother was a newborn/toddler.  It was pretty upsetting as a kid.  

I learned what I DON'T want to do in my marriage from seeing them fight so much.  That had to be exhausting (I know it was for me) and I don't want that kind of drama in my marriage.

At the same time though my parents have now been married 31 years.  They worked thru everything even if it wasn't in the healthiest manner and they always made an effort to make up in front of us kids.

It's left me with the impression that you can work thru just about anything.  I don't want to work it out with DH by yelling and throwing things, but I am committed to our marriage.

My parents grew up with parents that seemed to never fight/argue.  For the longest time they believed something was wrong with their marriage because they fought.  They grew up with no tools on how to deal with conflict in a marriage. 

So while my parents haven't always been the most functional people on the planet, I at least learned conflict is at some point going to happen and you can work it out.  I chose to drag DH to therapy so we could learn the proper tools for conflict resolution.

I don't expect Gwen to  never see us argue.  I don't think my parents realized I was awake when they had late night disagreements.  I DO want to make sure she always sees DH and I make up just like I saw my parents make-up.

Even before she was born DH and I made an effort, no matter how pissed we are at each other, to tell each other goodbye and kiss before leaving the house.

People argue, people fight.  Maybe you'd see a lot less screwed up people if we stopped treating every conflict as some sort of abnormality. 

[thyme4change]

Never having had a single argument in an entire relationship sounds super weird to me.

We have had 2 arguments where he raised his voice.  It isn't that we don't disagree or even get mad at each other.  He just isn't a guy who yells.  When he gets mad he gets very calm.  I've seen him yell maybe 5 times in 18 years.  And I'm not going to sit there and scream at someone and look like a whackadoo when he is sitting there calmly saying "I hear you, and we can work this out."  So, we just skip that step and go on to part where we have thoughtful conversations about whatever just happened.

We just had a "fight" the other night because he rolls his eyes and complains about every television show I watch, and it hurt my feelings, so I said some not nice thing, and he told me to knock it off.  Then we sat silent for 20 minutes and I told him that when I was a kid, there were only 3 networks, and if you watched the "wrong" show, you were judged harshly.  So, I feel that if he doesn't like any of the shows I watch, maybe he doesn't like me anymore.  And then I had to confess that it was even worse.  The truth is, I don't even like any of the shows I watch.  TV just sucks, and that is a loss that I'm really having trouble with.  TV has been such a good friend.  And now, we have really drifted apart.

[Deleted]

May 1, 2013 14:23:25 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Never having had a single argument in an entire relationship sounds super weird to me.

We have had 2 arguments where he raised his voice.  It isn't that we don't disagree or even get mad at each other.  He just isn't a guy who yells.  When he gets mad he gets very calm.  I've seen him yell maybe 5 times in 18 years.  And I'm not going to sit there and scream at someone and look like a whackadoo when he is sitting there calmly saying "I hear you, and we can work this out."  So, we just skip that step and go on to part where we have thoughtful conversations about whatever just happened.

We just had a "fight" the other night because he rolls his eyes and complains about every television show I watch, and it hurt my feelings, so I said some not nice thing, and he told me to knock it off.  Then we sat silent for 20 minutes and I told him that when I was a kid, there were only 3 networks, and if you watched the "wrong" show, you were judged harshly.  So, I feel that if he doesn't like any of the shows I watch, maybe he doesn't like me anymore.  And then I had to confess that it was even worse.  The truth is, I don't even like any of the shows I watch.  TV just sucks, and that is a loss that I'm really having trouble with.  TV has been such a good friend.  And now, we have really drifted apart.

aw.  You really need to find something to help you step out of your rut.    Can you take advantage of your lightened workload to maybe try an art/yoga/something interesting class? 

[thyme4change]

MJ - we have already been over that, and I stubbornly and obnoxiously pooped on all suggestions - {in shrill voice} "I can't draw." "I hate yoga." "Women over 40 that do that look stupid." <br><br>I'm quite the pain the ass.  I'm going back full time with a new job title in the summer.  I guess I have to stick with what I know - business and making money.  Hobbies I like, with a great payoff!

[Deleted]

whatever works!

[8 Bit WWBG]

My parents fought a LOT as a kid and I turned out OK.

I feel like far too often with DW, I'm rock to her paper -- she is the "leave me be" type who wants time to cool down, while I'm the "lets talk this out now so it doesn't get worse" type.  I used to think that if she'd just calm the hell down and talk, she'd realize that we could work out whatever the issue was quickly.

Lately things have been pretty good -- we haven't fought, and she's been super supportive.  I like it.

[Peace Of Mind]

May 1, 2013 16:59:08 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

My parents fought a LOT as a kid and I turned out OK.

I feel like far too often with DW, I'm rock to her paper -- she is the "leave me be" type who wants time to cool down, while I'm the "lets talk this out now so it doesn't get worse" type.  I used to think that if she'd just calm the hell down and talk, she'd realize that we could work out whatever the issue was quickly.

Lately things have been pretty good -- we haven't fought, and she's been super supportive.  I like it.

I hope you realize that you are the girl in this relationship. 

[Deleted]

My parents had pretty horrible fights.  They didn't beat each other with their fists, but man did they throw stuff!  I can remember many fights where someone would have seriously been hurt if they hadn't developed cat like reflexes.  They threw whatever was within reach.  They would also end up in food fights. I will never forget the Great Butter Fight of 1981.   Yes, they threw big glops of butter at each other.  I will also never forget the time my mom chased my dad down the road with a butcher knife because she thought he cheated on her.

I learned that I didn't want my marriage to be like that. Even though we argue, we don't throw things at each other.  

My parents have mellowed out after 40 years of marriage.  Now my dad goes and hides some place on the farm.

[sarcasticgirl]

we don't have kids... but our dog sure gets pissed when we argue (Which doesn't happen often)
He actually stands between us and barks his head off until we either shut up or pick him up! 

[thyme4change]

May 1, 2013 16:59:08 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

My parents fought a LOT as a kid and I turned out OK.

Whenever I hear this I can't help but remember this gal that I worked with for a brief time period.  She was total trailer trash.  She had multiple kids from multiple husbands, of all different nationalities.  She was overweight, and really not very bright.  She was smoking during her pregnancy and said "People tell me not to smoke while pregnant, but my mother did, and it didn't hurt me none."  Granted, I'm pretty sure she would be dumb, make bad decisions and have a bunch of illegitimate kids even if her mom didn't smoke while pregnant with her - but the whole scene was just so unappealing.  

[Deleted]

May 1, 2013 13:02:04 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

Never having had a single argument in an entire relationship sounds super weird to me.  I was in a relationship like that when I was in HS - turned out there was a lot that was going unsaid that should have been addressed.

I agree.  My ex and I were together for 13 years and never had a fight.  Ever.  We agreed on everything and were very comfortable with one another.  Then one day completely out of the blue he came home from a business trip and said he was having an affair and was leaving.  Single most devastating day of my life. 

Current husband and I fight all the time.  It sucks.  However, we definitely don't keep anything from each other, that's for sure.  I struggle constantly with trying to decide what is better for the kids...I worry about them constantly.

[gs11rmb]

"Current husband and I fight all the time. It sucks. However, we definitely don't keep anything from each other, that's for sure. I struggle constantly with trying to decide what is better for the kids...I worry about them constantly. "

I apologize in advance if I have you confused with another poster but didn't you say your husband punched you a few months ago?  The violence may not be regular but it sounds as if the arguing is constant.  What do you get out of this marriage? 

[Deleted]

Not much at this point.  It's very complicated.

[Miss Tequila]

May 2, 2013 14:43:56 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Not much at this point.  It's very complicated.