Would you be alive if it weren't for modern medicine?

[chiver78]

Apr 25, 2013 22:46:56 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I don't think so, I think it was more that if you survived to your teen years you had a really good shot at living to fifty something.  However, a lot of kids still died before adulthood.

Whenever a brutal winter or drought or epidemic hit it disproportionally took out little kids and old people.  Still does really.

that's one of the things that jumped out at me, going through the family history a cousin had put together - how many generations there were that had litters of children, and only one would survive to adulthood.

sad, and totally foreign concept to us now in the first world. it also makes me realize how little I am in the grand scheme of things, how many things had to fall into place for me to be here as me.

[Deleted]

I might still be here, but would likely have siezures or been blind and/or deaf.

I had run of the mill chicken pox at age 5.  Seemed to recover fine.  Then, about six months later, I started getting high fevers (like 104 and above).  Doctors would get the fever under control, but could not find the cause.  I lived on that pink, cherry flavored liquid amoxicillin for 2 years.

Finally, my mother's boss suggested we see his brother (Ear Nose and Throat specialist).  He talked my parents into removing my tonsils (which were never swollen and always looked normal).  He had had a patient like me before and they removed the tonsils as a last ditch effort.  It worked for me too.  Never had a problem after that.

[Phoenix84]

Apr 25, 2013 13:49:08 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Apr 25, 2013 13:42:57 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Yeah, I would likely be alive without modern medicine.  I've not had any major illnesses or injuries that required modern medicine.

However, my vision would be substantially without the cateracts surgery than it is now.  I would likely be blind and my life would be a lot different.

hey - none of us knows where we'd be without immunizations.

Even those who did not get immunizations, are still protected to a great degree by the large % of the populace being immunized.

I tried to respond yesterday, but the board kept eating my posts.

Anyway.  Vaccines are kind of the wild card in this discussion.  It's all just speculation if you would get a disease you were immunized against AND die from it.  Obviously, we'll never know, but not everyone who got the measels or mumps or smallpox died.

Given that I have a fairly healthy constitution, I probably would have lived through said diseases, but it's all speculation.  However, you cannot assume that vaccines saved everyone because obviously many people managed to live life before vaccines.

In general, I'd say the odds are that I would be here without vaccines.  But I would probably be blind. 

Sorry if that assessment isn't good enough for you.  I was asked a question by the OP and I gave the best answer I could.  Or is the thought of me getting whacked by smallpox a tantilizing one for you? 

[lynnerself]

Well modern medicine was what fused two vertabrae.
But the surgery was required because of and auto accient.
So if it weren't for modern transportation techology, I wouldn't have needed the modern medical technology.

[amishgal]

Apr 25, 2013 15:47:09 GMT -5 sheilaincali said:

Nope.  I would have died when I was pregnant with DS.  I'm A - and he is A +.  I had to have the two shots to keep my body from rejecting the pregnancy. Then when he was born I had to have a C-section after 36 hours of labor because his head was too large. 

Same here, out of 3 kids only one of them had the rh- factor, but we didn't know that until after her birth so I still had to get the shots while pregnant.

[HoneyBBQ]

I don't really know. I had to have an emergency C section with my DD. Whether she, or I, or both, or neither is really unknown. Probably at least one of us.  I've also had several D&Cs which could have turned into infections and killed me.... but maybe not.


Other than that, I've never really been that ill. I've broken a few bones here and there, but overall been pretty healthy.

[HoneyBBQ]

oops double post.

[doxieluvr]

Do you consider antibiotics modern medicine? If so, any illness could have killed me off.

if we are talking major injury, disease, child birth... I would be good. Never had a major surgery, I declined stitches when my leg was cut open, had natural child birth both times, etc.

I am not convinced modern medicine should save everyone. If one is born with limited quality of life or severely incapacitated, I think modern medicine should let them pass. 

I had a friend that had a major brain trauma. He was a great guy prior to the accident. What's left of him is down right scary. He is now a violent monster. In reality, the real him passed after his accident, what's left is a nasty shell. 

[thyme4change]

Brain injuries are the worst to me.  Someone said "my biggest fear is an amputation" after the Boston Marathon bomb, and I was thinking "I would totally take an amputation - especially of my leg!"  But head trauma often comes with huge personality changes, as well as diminished capacity to earn a living.  It seems like a huge obstacle and so many people never really overcome it.  

[Phoenix84]

I could live with amutations, especially of a leg.  People with prostetic legs can live pretty normal lives.  People with protestic legs have run in the olympics.  It would bw wrose to lose your arms in my opinion, and yeah, I think brain damage would be even worse than that. 

[kittensaver]

:: I had a friend that had a major brain trauma. He was a great guy prior to the accident. What's left of him is down right scary. He is now a violent monster. In reality, the real him passed after his accident, what's left is a nasty shell. ::

========================

Wait - so let me understand this. Due to tremendous advances in modern medicine, soldiers and other military personnel who used to die of their battle wounds now live, many of them with brain injuries and/or other severe, permanent limitations.

Does this mean you are saying folks who gave their their youth and the quality of their life to their country should just be left to die?

Just asking, based on this line of thinking.

[thyme4change]

There are times in your life when you recognize the exact pinpoint of where something turned and went terribly wrong.  Sometimes it is something big - like the point you realize you are no longer in love with your partner.  Sometimes it is something small, like the thread going from one of marvel of how so many of us have been saved from both simple and complicated medical problems to a thread where we are horrified that one person doesn't value other people's lives.

[movingforward]

I agree.  Losing your marbles whether it is from an accident, Alzheimer's, or some other disease would definitely be worse than an amputation; however, I think being quadriplegic would be devastating.  I couldn't imagine not being able to use ANY part of my body from the neck down.  

[swamp]

Apr 26, 2013 14:31:06 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

:: I had a friend that had a major brain trauma. He was a great guy prior to the accident. What's left of him is down right scary. He is now a violent monster. In reality, the real him passed after his accident, what's left is a nasty shell. ::

========================

Wait - so let me understand this. Due to tremendous advances in modern medicine, soldiers and other military personnel who used to die of their battle wounds now live, many of them with brain injuries and/or other severe, permanent limitations.

Does this mean you are saying folks who gave their their youth and the quality of their life to their country should just be left to die?

Just asking, based on this line of thinking.

I'd rather be dead than suffer TBI, but that's my choice. 

[thyme4change]

Apr 26, 2013 14:36:09 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I agree.  Losing your marbles whether it is from an accident, Alzheimer's, or some other disease would definitely be worse than an amputation; however, I think being quadriplegic would be devastating.  I couldn't imagine not being able to use ANY part of my body from the neck down.  

I just learned that quadriplegics are defined on a scale, and you may have some range of motion in some parts.

The guy on Legit fathered a baby.  

[swamp]

Apr 26, 2013 14:38:53 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Apr 26, 2013 14:36:09 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I agree.  Losing your marbles whether it is from an accident, Alzheimer's, or some other disease would definitely be worse than an amputation; however, I think being quadriplegic would be devastating.  I couldn't imagine not being able to use ANY part of my body from the neck down.  

I just learned that quadriplegics are defined on a scale, and you may have some range of motion in some parts.

The guy on Legit fathered a baby.  

isn't that a reflex response? 

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2013 14:35:04 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

There are times in your life when you recognize the exact pinpoint of where something turned and went terribly wrong.  Sometimes it is something big - like the point you realize you are no longer in love with your partner.  Sometimes it is something small, like the thread going from one of marvel of how so many of us have been saved from both simple and complicated medical problems to a thread where we are horrified that one person doesn't value other people's lives.

especially when that person has shown little or no sympathy for others in the past.

[doxieluvr]

Apr 26, 2013 14:31:06 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

:: I had a friend that had a major brain trauma. He was a great guy prior to the accident. What's left of him is down right scary. He is now a violent monster. In reality, the real him passed after his accident, what's left is a nasty shell. ::

========================

Wait - so let me understand this. Due to tremendous advances in modern medicine, soldiers and other military personnel who used to die of their battle wounds now live, many of them with brain injuries and/or other severe, permanent limitations.

Does this mean you are saying folks who gave their their youth and the quality of their life to their country should just be left to die?

Just asking, based on this line of thinking.

If their injuries severely damage their quality of life, or leave them severely mentally challenged, or in my ex friends case, violently psychotic, then yes we should allow them to pass gracefully, as opposed to doing everything to bring them back to a life of severe health issues. 

[kittensaver]

Apr 26, 2013 14:58:07 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

Apr 26, 2013 14:35:04 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

There are times in your life when you recognize the exact pinpoint of where something turned and went terribly wrong.  Sometimes it is something big - like the point you realize you are no longer in love with your partner.  Sometimes it is something small, like the thread going from one of marvel of how so many of us have been saved from both simple and complicated medical problems to a thread where we are horrified that one person doesn't value other people's lives.

especially when that person has shown little or no sympathy for others in the past.

Are you referring to posts #11 and #21, or to something else? Just curious . . . .

[doxieluvr]

Apr 26, 2013 14:37:25 GMT -5 swamp said:

Apr 26, 2013 14:31:06 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

:: I had a friend that had a major brain trauma. He was a great guy prior to the accident. What's left of him is down right scary. He is now a violent monster. In reality, the real him passed after his accident, what's left is a nasty shell. ::

========================

Wait - so let me understand this. Due to tremendous advances in modern medicine, soldiers and other military personnel who used to die of their battle wounds now live, many of them with brain injuries and/or other severe, permanent limitations.

Does this mean you are saying folks who gave their their youth and the quality of their life to their country should just be left to die?

Just asking, based on this line of thinking.

I'd rather be dead than suffer TBI, but that's my choice. 

Me to. 

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2013 15:06:52 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Apr 26, 2013 14:58:07 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

especially when that person has shown little or no sympathy for others in the past.

Are you referring to posts #11 and #21, or to something else? Just curious . . . .

#71

[kittensaver]

Apr 26, 2013 15:11:07 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

Apr 26, 2013 15:06:52 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Are you referring to posts #11 and #21, or to something else? Just curious . . . .

#71

Gotcha, thanks. The numbering I'm seeing is really wierd.

81 is a doozy too.

[movingforward]

There are definitely times when death is kinder and gentler than keeping someone alive.  I remember when my cat of 16 yrs was sick and I asked the vet when I would know when it was time to put him down.  She told me to think of the top 5 things that make him who he is and when he stops doing 4 out 5 of those things then it is time to let him go.  Sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't use that same criteria for people. 

Man, I loved that cat.  Now I am kind of sad

ETA: I am not advocating "putting people down."  I am just saying that personally I wouldn't want to be kept alive to "just exist." 

[Bob Ross]

She told me to think of the top 5 things that make him who he is and when he stops doing 4 out 5 of those things then it is time to let him go. Sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't use that same criteria for people.

The problem with this is if I stopped doing 4 out of 5 things that make me who I am, I'd actually be a much better person.

[Peace Of Mind]

Apr 26, 2013 15:04:43 GMT -5 doxieluvr said:

Apr 26, 2013 14:31:06 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

:: I had a friend that had a major brain trauma. He was a great guy prior to the accident. What's left of him is down right scary. He is now a violent monster. In reality, the real him passed after his accident, what's left is a nasty shell. ::

========================

Wait - so let me understand this. Due to tremendous advances in modern medicine, soldiers and other military personnel who used to die of their battle wounds now live, many of them with brain injuries and/or other severe, permanent limitations.

Does this mean you are saying folks who gave their their youth and the quality of their life to their country should just be left to die?

Just asking, based on this line of thinking.

If their injuries severely damage their quality of life, or leave them severely mentally challenged, or in my ex friends case, violently psychotic, then yes we should allow them to pass gracefully, as opposed to doing everything to bring them back to a life of severe health issues. 

But they probably didn't know he'd turn out that way.  How would you know in advance somebody saved turns out to be a violent psychotic? So let everybody go on that one chance?   Doctors take a hippocratic oath to do no harm so they can't do that any way.

[Peace Of Mind]

Apr 26, 2013 15:14:21 GMT -5 movingforward said:

There are definitely times when death is kinder and gentler than keeping someone alive.  I remember when my cat of 16 yrs was sick and I asked the vet when I would know when it was time to put him down.  She told me to think of the top 5 things that make him who he is and when he stops doing 4 out 5 of those things then it is time to let him go.  Sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't use that same criteria for people. 

Man, I loved that cat.  Now I am kind of sad

ETA: I am not advocating "putting people down."  I am just saying that personally I wouldn't want to be kept alive to "just exist." 

I feel the same way.  If I knew in advance I'd not be me any more - just let me go.  I have a living will, etc. stating my wishes and told DH I'd haunt him if he doesn't follow them. 

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2013 15:14:00 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Apr 26, 2013 15:11:07 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

#71

Gotcha, thanks. The numbering I'm seeing is really wierd.

81 is a doozy too.

now I'm seeing 11.  Maybe I contracted irreparable brain damage...

[mmhmm]

I've never required any major interventions, fortunately.  Never had anything that could kill me.  My daughter, however, wouldn't be here today were it not for modern medicine.  She had an automobile accident and broke her neck (much the same as Dark's injury).

[HoneyBBQ]

I have a living will. No vegetative state for me!!!

[triciacus]

Apr 25, 2013 21:27:39 GMT -5 KaraBoo said:

Ever since then, I've had a hard time admitting when there is a problem with my body.  Right now, I may either have the bacteria H. Pylorie (sp?) or a non-functioning gallbladder. 

I had H pylori last summer and it was the most awful pain, to me it was worse than childbirth and the pain I felt when my gallbladder went bad, I had the infection for over a year and no one could figure out what was wrong with me until I went to see a new doctor and he ordered a blood test for it and it turned positive almost immediately, I was on antibiotics made specifically for H-pylori for 2 weeks and it went away.

I hope they find out what is wrong with you and that you feel better soon, I know the pain is awful.