Walmart in top 10 of environmentally friendly companies.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 17, 2013 19:37:13 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

Yes.  Understood.  I'm just heartbroken you'd think I wouldn't listen...

would you feel better if i told you i meant "you" in the sense of "this board"?  it was a case of hastiness on my part, and a quick response on yours that didn't allow for reading back and adjusting it.

[Opti]

Apr 17, 2013 19:32:10 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

i think there is a lot more to life than climbing ladders, that's all.  people are free to disagree, of course.  this is America, after all.

Yes of course there is.  Why would you think I'd disagree with that?  My only goal climbing the ladder is to hasten my retirement so that I can spend the rest of my life splitting my time between relaxing and doing volunteer work.

I really wasn't even talking about climbing the ladder, though.  I just meant working hard and staying long enough to get a few promotions (which come fairly frequently in a high turnaround job like that).

I really doubt that just working hard is enough, even in retail. Promotions are usually based part on opportunity(job availibility) and its intersection with who the boss(and bosses) want to promote. Not sure about Walmart, but when I worked at a big department store my supervisor probably had at least 40 direct reports. Not all were FT, but even if say half are FT you still need the supervisor to quit or move up. I think the huge turnover in retail is
concentrated in the grunt roles, but Cawiau can weigh in about grocery stores perhaps.

[Deleted]

the idea of a perfect market is pretty silly.

Of course.  Supposedly the developed world wastes about half the food it consumes.

I really doubt that just working hard is enough, even in retail. Promotions are usually based part on opportunity(job availibility) and its intersection with who the boss(and bosses) want to promote.

Sorry for the confusion.  When I said promotion, I just meant more money for doing the same job.  Higher "salary grade".  I think the top pay at a typical Walmart was north of $20/hr.  The $12/hr was just for the rank and file types.  And raises come quickly because high turnover is expensive.  Employees who stay are much more valuable.

[Deleted]

dj--Not really.  Too little, too late.  I am a very delicate flower....  Please be more gentle next time. 

[djAdvocate]

Apr 17, 2013 20:14:45 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

dj--Not really.  Too little, too late.  I am a very delicate flower....  Please be more gentle next time. 

and i am a real Ferdinand, at times.  sorry if i smooshed you. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Apr 17, 2013 13:01:09 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

Bobby--Not really.  It's a lot more complicated and expensive than you think.  Knowing firsthand how much Walmart puts into energy management, if they could actually do that, they would be doing it already.

Walmart is a lot greener than people give them credit for.  And their efforts to be "green" go far beyond just buying "green" power.  I suspect they also pay employees who do their jobs and stick around a while a lot better than a mom-and-pop does.

If "green" or "alternative" energy made any economic sense, there'd be companies supplying it who were able to attract investors other than government bureaucrats playing with your tax money.

I've always wondered how solar panels fair in hail storms, and whether or not insurance carriers will write them?

[Deleted]

Apr 17, 2013 22:55:26 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Apr 17, 2013 13:01:09 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

Bobby--Not really.  It's a lot more complicated and expensive than you think.  Knowing firsthand how much Walmart puts into energy management, if they could actually do that, they would be doing it already.

Walmart is a lot greener than people give them credit for.  And their efforts to be "green" go far beyond just buying "green" power.  I suspect they also pay employees who do their jobs and stick around a while a lot better than a mom-and-pop does.

If "green" or "alternative" energy made any economic sense, there'd be companies supplying it who were able to attract investors other than government bureaucrats playing with your tax money.

I've always wondered how solar panels fair in hail storms, and whether or not insurance carriers will write them?

 How odd... because I remember your claiming to be directly associated with insurance claims and adjustments that dealt with damage from storm Katrina.
 

[happyhoix]

Apr 17, 2013 18:40:22 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

They make their vendors sign something that says they intend to be green, but I don't think anyone from walmart ever comes around to check the truthiness of those papers.

You think Walmart doesn't audit their suppliers?  On what do you base your assumption?  Walmart is very particular about their processes.  For example, they have people on staff whose job is to make sure their energy bills are paid on the bill due date and not a day sooner.  Walmart doesn't skip on the details.

I don't think, I know, but I don't want to say how I know on a public message board.

There's a vast number of walmart vendors, and those vendors might subcontract some of their products to subcontractors, who in turn might also have subcontractors. Walmart doesn't visit each and every work site. That would be impossible, even for a company the size of Walmart.

[formerroomate99]

DJ, not everything grows well in every patch of dirt in every climate, but you can force lots of different things to grow in your patch of dirt by applying a bunch of chemicals that take a huge amount of energy to make. 

So, if by local farming, you mean only growing things that grow easily in your neck of the woods and the produce is distributed in an efficient manner, then yes, local is probably more efficient than getting produce from Chile. 

But if local farming means the farmers use a ton of chemicals to trick the soil into growing stuff that isn't really meant to grow where you are, and then every week you and 1000 other people drive 30 miles to the local farmer's market, then buying local isn't that efficient. 

In my case, I drive a minivan, all the grocery stores I could want are within 5 miles but the nearest farmer's market is 20 miles.  So, for me, buying local means using an extra 2 gallons of gas for a week's worth of groceries. 

[formerroomate99]

Considering the fact that that hailstorms routinely take out people's windshields, I think it's safe to assume that solar panels aren't very practical in an area that gets hail often.  The walmarts by me have skylights to reduce their energy usage.  Installing solar panels here would be a waste of money. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Love this thread.

[Deleted]

happy--I guess I misunderstood.  I agree, it would be impossible for them to keep tabs on every supplier, subcontractor, etc.  But that doesn't mean they don't have an audit process in place.  And it would necessarily focus on the biggest suppliers.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Still love this thread.

Another true statement that will drive the left nutso: Wal-Mart is the greatest anti-poverty program in the history of humanity. No single employer hires more low skilled labor, provides goods and services at a lower cost to low income families than Wal-Mart. And they pay pretty well, too in a job for job, apples to apples comparison.

[weltschmerz]

America’s largest retailer and employer has been fined over $100 million for violating environmental regulations by disposing of fertilizer, pesticide and bleach in sewage systems across the country, among other violations.
Walmart pleaded guilty to six counts of violating the Clean Water Act by disposing of hazardous chemicals in garbage receptacles and sewage systems at over 4,000 retail outlets across the United States in court cases filed by the cities of Los Angeles and San Francisco.

The US Justice Department said Walmart was also found guilty of violating federal law by mixing together pesticides at a Missouri recycling facility and then reselling them in a process that violated the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA).

worldtruth.tv/walmart-found-guilty-of-dumping-hazardous-waste-nationwide/

Ah yes....such an environmentally-friendly company.

[frankq]

As far as "labor friendly", how many mom and pop stores offer health insurance to their employees? I'd be willing to bet Walmart offers better career opportunities the typical mom and pop shop.

Ironically, there was a movement a while back where people suggested Walmart should pay its employees a "living wage" of $12/hr. Turns out that a person can already make $12/hr at Walmart. They do have to work hard, stick around, and prove their value, but I don't think that's asking too much, do you?

Yeah......why don't you show us where you get this information bob......Yeah, a person can make $12/hr, if they are in management.....Turns out that Walmart has an abysmal labor record.

www.laborrights.org/creating-a-sweatfree-world/wal-mart-campaign
abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/wage-violations-walmart-warehouse-amount-13-million/story?id=18355239#.UbEJ3r4o6M8
progressive.org/media_sanhita733
www.guestworkeralliance.org/2012/06/probe-reveals-622-federal-labor-violations-at-12-u-s-walmart-suppliers/
www.guestworkeralliance.org/2012/06/probe-reveals-622-federal-labor-violations-at-12-u-s-walmart-suppliers/

You might want to do some research bob before you put WalMart in the same class as Mother Teresa....

[frankq]

Apr 17, 2013 18:40:22 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

They make their vendors sign something that says they intend to be green, but I don't think anyone from walmart ever comes around to check the truthiness of those papers.

You think Walmart doesn't audit their suppliers?  On what do you base your assumption?  Walmart is very particular about their processes.  For example, they have people on staff whose job is to make sure their energy bills are paid on the bill due date and not a day sooner.  Walmart doesn't skip on the details.

Seriously? Walmart "audits" it's suppliers? Yeah.....They're still digging out the bodies of the workers in Bangladesh who were killed when their factory building collapsed. There are workers in China who have committed suicide over working conditions in factories that supply Walmart. Factories forcing workers to work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day...Audits? Really? Shit bob, you really need to get out more dude...

[Deleted]

I believe the factory in Bangladesh was not under contract with Walmart or any Western business.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 6, 2013 18:20:12 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

I believe the factory in Bangladesh was not under contract with Walmart or any Western business.

Surely you're not going to let a little matter like "the facts" get in the way of smearing a successful American business? 

[EVT1]

Monopsony power- maybe not Wally this time, maybe so- it's a philosophy really- people that think work should be rewarded with some measure of dignity and respect, and those that think people should kiss their ass. 

But even worse are the corporate bootlickers that in their love of all things capitalist ignore the 'externalities' of operating a business.  AKA the shit society pays for because of them.  We create roads, they create toxic dumps that kill people and no one seems to care.  What a spineless bunch we are in the USA.

[frankq]

Activists say that global clothing brands like Tommy Hilfiger and the Gap and those sold by Walmart need to take responsibility for the working conditions in Bangladeshi factories that produce their clothes.

“These brands have known for years that many of the factories they choose to work with are death traps,” Ineke Zeldenrust, the international coordinator for the Clean Clothes Campaign, said in a statement. “Their failure to take action amounts to criminal negligence.”

In a statement from the United States, Wal-Mart said, “While we are trying to determine if the factory has a current relationship with Walmart or one of our suppliers, fire safety is a critically important area of Walmart’s factory audit program and we have been working across the apparel industry to improve fire safety education and training in Bangladesh.”


www.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/world/asia/bangladesh-fire-kills-more-than-100-and-injures-many.html?hp&_r=0

Here is a tidbit from another Bangladesh factory tragedy. Walmart mentions it's "audit" program here. Looks like it's associated to me.

This building collapse is only the latest in a long series of tragedies. Last November, 112 garment workers died in a fire at the Tazreen Fashions factory near Dhaka. To many Americans, the fire at Tazreen might have seemed eerily reminiscent of New York's Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire in 1911: more than 100 people, mostly disenfranchised women, dead in a cramped factory with no exit. Both fires were met with horror and public protests. Workers and legislators in 1911 New York and 2012 Dhaka demanded justice — safer conditions, shorter hours, better wages.

www.policymic.com/articles/39931/bangladesh-building-collapse-why-it-should-scare-americans

It would appear that these factories are connected with suppliers to Walmart. While not "directly", surely Walmart, through it's "audit" program, would be aware of how these products come to them......Yeah bob, these factories, technically, might not be under direct contract with Walmart, after all, that would probably expose Walmart to direct liability, but I think we know what's going on here. Enjoy that cheap shirt...

I don't see any mention of Walmart signing on to this:
www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/radio/program/connect-asia/australian-retailers-sign-safety-pact-after-bangladesh-collapse/1142652

But....it's nice to know that they are saving energy and going green....Thank God Walmart is saving us from the nastiness of all those Mom and Pop businesses...

[frankq]

No single employer hires more low skilled labor, provides goods and services at a lower cost to low income families than Wal-Mart. And they pay pretty well, too in a job for job, apples to apples comparison.

They pay pretty well? They pay the legal minimum wage. Check out the battle they fought in Chicago over paying more than minimum wage..

Walmart's demographic is the under $35k family income range. They should provide goods and services to low income people at a lower cost since they have done more to grow those low income people than any other single company....

From a recent story regarding the Walmart pension (not really, it's a 401K) plan

www.cnbc.com/id/100834967

While Wal-Mart accounts are much smaller than the average retirement account, the sheer size of the company makes it a coveted—and closely watched—client in the retirement industry. It could not be learned when Wal-Mart last conducted a similar review, but retirement plan administration mandates rarely come up for grabs.

Wal-Mart, the world's biggest retailer, has more than 1.2 million people participating in its retirement plan, which has an average account balance of $15,000, according to BrightScope, which tracks and rates retirement plans.

By contrast, the typical retirement account in a plan with more than 10,000 participants had an average account balance of more than $63,000 at the end of 2011, according to the latest data available from the Employee Benefit Research Institute.


Yeah....an average account balance a quarter of the typical plan with more than 10,000 employees. They really pay well....And this take into account that a huge number of people don't participate....yes it's a company match to a limit, because they don't make enough money to put any aside. Kinda hard to fund a 401K on a part time job around 32 hours (so they don't qualify for health benefits) that pays less than $9 an hour.