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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2013 17:18:54 GMT -5
Oh & the cartoon...How about we change our American Dream? The new one could be "I want to live my life & not be stupid - or at least not stupid enough that people on line can make fun of me.
Now am I saying getting a degree is bad, of course not. Some degrees are totally worth it, but some aren't. But no matter what, graduating with enough debt that you will pay on it the rest of your life even if you get that good paying job is dumb.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 17, 2013 10:27:33 GMT -5
You know, one thing I always tell young people is to NEVER take career advice from a college professor. They don't live in the real world , so they have no business dispensing advice in the first place. And since filling their classes and graduate departments is in their best interests, they aren't going to tell students that they need to pick another major if they want to be able to support a family.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2013 10:48:12 GMT -5
Maybe you just had bad professors, former?
Some of the best career advice I ever got was from the advisor for my underwater basket-weaving major. She had a pretty solid grasp on the differences between intellectually fulfilling studies and coursework that would help you get your bills paid.
And most faculty are pretty strongly incentivized to get you working at graduation. Job placement rates are critical for college rankings, and they are evaluated according to the professional success of the students they advise and mentor.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 17, 2013 10:59:25 GMT -5
Maybe you just had bad professors, former? Some of the best career advice I ever got was from the advisor for my underwater basket-weaving major. She had a pretty solid grasp on the differences between intellectually fulfilling studies and coursework that would help you get your bills paid. And most faculty are pretty strongly incentivized to get you working at graduation. Job placement rates are critical for college rankings, and they are evaluated according to the professional success of the students they advise and mentor. I had a mixture, both good and bad. In my undergraduate program, I had one professor constantly harping on us that this was a very bad time to graduate with that particular degree. He strongly encouraged me to double major and did everything he could to get us internships. But when I went to grad school at a state university, nearly all the professors in the non marketable areas lied like rugs, and did so with such conviction. They had no ethics at all. They were actively encouraging people to get PhD's in fields where they had absolutely no chance of getting gainful employment, knowing full well that they'd be incurring 6 figure debt in the process. I couldn't believe it. |
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 17, 2013 11:33:51 GMT -5
I think a lot of this is due to people having an idea of the American dream that never was. In the older generations of my family, everyone was pushing 30 before they had a job that could support a family. Nobody who graduated high school and started a family did well. The house they raised their kids in wasn't where they were living when they were first married or even when they had their first kid or two. But my generation seems to think they deserve a house as big as what their parents got in their 40's and 50's when they are just starting out.
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trimatty471
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Post by trimatty471 on May 5, 2013 18:31:54 GMT -5
I came from a blue collar background. First in my family to go to college on both sides.
We had no idea what the heck we were doing.
What we did know was to never borrow more than you thought you could afford to pay back (what a novel concept). How did we figure this out? No guidance, personal finance course, etc. We just looked at what the profession I was majoring in pays, subtracted reasonable living expenses, and figured the rest would go to student loans.
It meant me working 2+ jobs both during and after getting my degree and taking about 50% of the loan amounts for which I was eligible.
But go ahead and blame it on everyone else except those that were all to happy to take the money when they wanted it. Those poor poor victims who were raped (a very ugly word used far too lightly such as in this situation IMHO) by the big mean banks. They need protection because they are too weak/vulnerable/stupid to figure things out for themselves. Thank you for saying. Me coming from the same background I also looked into the type of school that I was going to. No name brand schools. I went to a state college and with a combo of working, scholarships, grant and loans I was able to graduate with just $17K in debt. I delayed many gratifications to wipe out that debt. It makes my blood boil when I here people asking to wipe away student loans. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 5, 2013 22:24:00 GMT -5
... I was able to graduate with just $17K in debt. I delayed many gratifications to wipe out that debt. It makes my blood boil when I here people asking to wipe away student loans. I here you get what you pay for.   |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 10:14:25 GMT -5
I came from a blue collar background. First in my family to go to college on both sides.
We had no idea what the heck we were doing.
What we did know was to never borrow more than you thought you could afford to pay back (what a novel concept). How did we figure this out? No guidance, personal finance course, etc. We just looked at what the profession I was majoring in pays, subtracted reasonable living expenses, and figured the rest would go to student loans.
It meant me working 2+ jobs both during and after getting my degree and taking about 50% of the loan amounts for which I was eligible.
But go ahead and blame it on everyone else except those that were all to happy to take the money when they wanted it. Those poor poor victims who were raped (a very ugly word used far too lightly such as in this situation IMHO) by the big mean banks. They need protection because they are too weak/vulnerable/stupid to figure things out for themselves. Thank you for saying. Me coming from the same background I also looked into the type of school that I was going to. No name brand schools. I went to a state college and with a combo of working, scholarships, grant and loans I was able to graduate with just $17K in debt. I delayed many gratifications to wipe out that debt. It makes my blood boil when I here people asking to wipe away student loans.  Good job. 471 And good luck in the future whatever you decide to do.  |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 6, 2013 11:32:37 GMT -5
The govt has no business being in the student loan business. Everything they touch turns rotten. the student loan business is already rotten. i doubt the government could do much worse. |
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Post by jkapp on May 6, 2013 14:40:02 GMT -5
I am sure you meant to include all of the banks that got in the feeding frenzy, didn't you? I get the government wanting its money back- the problem is that the private loan companies were allowed to operate as well with no risk- yet they priced their products and built fee schemes that abused the shit out of students. Add in all of the new low quality private colleges out there pushing those loans, the public universities pushing those loans and here we are. Glad Obama got their asses out of the business of risk free financial rape.
I know what you're trying to say, but I have to add that it's not rape if its consensual... |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 13, 2013 10:32:43 GMT -5
www.reuters.com/assets/print?aid=USBRE94A07B20130511WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Stacey Kalivas should be celebrating her graduation from college later this week. Instead, the 22 year-old is getting ready to move back home with broken dreams and in debt. Kalivas is a member of the class of 2013, the fifth successive wave of students to enter into a stubbornly weak U.S. labor market - marked by high unemployment, a large number of part-time workers and many who have given up the hunt for jobs. "It's kind of tough to be graduating and not having anything," said Kalivas. The finance major will graduate from Bryant University in Smithfield, Rhode Island on May 18. It has been nearly four years since the end of the worst U.S. economic downturn since the Great Depression, but the recovery has been too spotty to patch up the deep scars. i just read that unemployment among college grads is @ 3.9% if that is true, forgive me for not shedding a tear for Stacey. |
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Post by djAdvocate on May 13, 2013 11:45:58 GMT -5
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Post by djAdvocate on May 13, 2013 11:47:10 GMT -5
djp, this's from article. "HIGH GRADUATE UNDEREMPLOYMENT The Class of 2013 is competing with four other groups of graduates going back to 2009, many of whom are still struggling to get a job or find full-time work. Brian Hackett graduated in 2010 with a political science and public policy degree. "I am working part-time at a research company, but it's not enough hours, it's not enough pay and it's not my career path. That's the type of rut a lot of people like myself are falling in," said Hackett." They might be working at "Starbucks"  median income for college graduates is over $1k/week. again- not shedding a tear...... |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 11:54:32 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 13, 2013 12:08:30 GMT -5
You talk about BLS but I am talking as first hand knowledge of being a Mom of recent college grad. But I must admit all of these number government published in last couple of years I have a tendency to disregard as correct info.  HAHAHAHA. i see. your anecdotal evidence trumps my national statistics. got it.  |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 13, 2013 12:11:45 GMT -5
median income for college graduates is over $1k/week. again- not shedding a tear...... Then finds a job for young Engineer got A degree from top public university in nation. I happen to know him for last 5 years and he's an awesome individual. By the way he has been working at UPS since he graduated. what is his weekly income? |
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 13, 2013 12:52:05 GMT -5
I think I did pretty good considering I had no one to really guide me and that was right around the time schools were being exposed for recieving kickbacks if they encouraged certain types of loans. I could have sank myself a lot further into debt than I already am.
That being said as I've gotten older and gained experience I see in hindsight I could have done even to lower my debt even further and increase my income substantially.
It is what it is. I made decisions based on the information I had at the time.
I don't believe I am denied anything. I just have to rethink things along the way. It's going to take more time and/or more planning to get where I want to go in some aspects.
Which is something everyone should do. Just because someone has $0 student loan debt doesn't mean they'll get or be able to have everything they want on the time table they want.
I was never really invested in the "house with a white picket fence and 2 cars in the garage" American dream to begin with. So maybe that's why I don't feel deprived or like the rug has been ripped out from under me.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 13:33:07 GMT -5
Wow, is he part time? I thought UPS drivers made OK money? deminmaine, thanks for asking. |
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Post by djAdvocate on May 13, 2013 13:41:14 GMT -5
what is his weekly income? 3 hundred 50 Dollars. Not enough to live along and he is an Electrical Engineer. Poor guy, doesn't even have any benifit to speak of.  sucky. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 14:11:25 GMT -5
median income for college graduates is over $1k/week. again- not shedding a tear...... Then finds a job for young Engineer got A degree from top public university in nation. I happen to know him for last 5 years and he's an awesome individual. By the way he has been working at UPS since he graduated. Why did I think you were in Florida, snow? The top public university in the U.S. is UC-Berkeley. Engineering is a great STEM choice, but electrical engineering used to be kind of the least desirable specialty (unless it was a combine computer science program) Even so, I can't imagine why someone with a degree from Berkeley wouldn't be able to get a job unless they couldn't code, couldn't interview, or couldn't go where the jobs were. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 20:15:51 GMT -5
I get that... you have no idea how much it pained me not to say that my alma mater was the best school.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on Jun 9, 2013 18:44:47 GMT -5
I agree with EVT, it isn't rocket science to figure out how much you are getting in loans every year. It is pretty much the same for everyone now (offered loans) There is online tutorials you have to do and I had to 9 years ago. Only a whiner would say oh me oh my let's blame someone else.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2013 11:04:38 GMT -5
Old American Dream: Hard work, saving, & you can have the opportunity to have most the things you want plus have a great life.
New American Dream: You deserve because you are. What you want, you deserve now. (The new American Dream is what bankruptcies are made of). |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 10, 2013 11:51:56 GMT -5
Old American Saw: These kids today! By golly, back in the day ... <insert how your generation was soooo much better than today's kids)
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 10, 2013 17:11:13 GMT -5
Old American Saw: These kids today! By golly, back in the day ... <insert how your generation was soooo much better than today's kids) typical "greatest generation" quote. they did everything, and we are a bunch of leeches. |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 10, 2013 17:13:37 GMT -5
LOL! No kidding, dj! My father had the audacity to try the "I hiked to school umpteen miles barefoot on a rocky road!" game on me. I don't know who laughed the hardest ... my mother, or me. Every generation has something bad to say about those who follow them. Nobody's doing anything right anymore. Yeah. Right.  |
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 10, 2013 18:30:52 GMT -5
LOL! No kidding, dj! My father had the audacity to try the "I hiked to school umpteen miles barefoot on a rocky road!" game on me. I don't know who laughed the hardest ... my mother, or me. Every generation has something bad to say about those who follow them. Nobody's doing anything right anymore. Yeah. Right. honestly? i think this generation has a lot more going for them than mine. but i never got along well with my peers, so it is tough for me to say. |
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 10, 2013 18:36:02 GMT -5
This generation has a lot in its favor and a lot of hurdles to overcome, just like previous generations did. Things always look better in hindsight, I think, because you're not having to actually live it. Today's young people will make their own way, and their own world, just as we made ours. They'll do great things and no-so-great things.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2013 18:50:21 GMT -5
This generation has a lot in its favor and a lot of hurdles to overcome, just like previous generations did. Things always look better in hindsight, I think, because you're not having to actually live it. Today's young people will make their own way, and their own world, just as we made ours. They'll do great things and no-so-great things. Actually in general I tend to agree with you mmhmm. But on the other hand I don't remember me or my generation blaming our parents for not making it so I kind of get a little defensive. My guess is that most of this generation will make it ok (I'm pretty sure about the 2 I turned out). But a lot of this generation is setting themselves up for a hard live. Not all or even most but a lot. |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 10, 2013 20:01:58 GMT -5
My kids turned out great, old tex, and have happy, productive lives and families. The grandkids are doing great, as well. Granddaughter is married and a nurse, helping her husband finish his engineering degree. One grandson has his own small business that's just starting to do pretty well, and the other is in college, starting in the fall. All have had their ups and downs, but have overcome the bad times without giving in. They've got plenty to be proud of. I think most of them do pretty darned well once they get a grip on life and living it.
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