ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 10, 2011 9:20:17 GMT -5
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 10, 2011 9:25:03 GMT -5
Did you actually read the article?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 10, 2011 9:28:51 GMT -5
Did you actually read the article? I did. So is there something about it you wish to discuss?
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 10, 2011 9:29:32 GMT -5
This program needs means testing. If you have a car that is less than 4 years old, a cell phone, flat screen TV, iPod, etc., you are tossed off.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 10, 2011 9:30:16 GMT -5
I did. So is there something about it you wish to discuss?
Yes, the article points out this handout is not being cut.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 10, 2011 9:32:59 GMT -5
<<<"Still, despite the uncertainties surrounding the proposed cut, it is dramatic. LIHEAP has been semi-sacred for most Democrats and many Republicans -- a program that carries an emotional resonance as it was designed to keep poor people, particularly older poor people, cool in the summer and warm in the winter. “A lot of people in the Northeast are going to be unhappy,” an administration official briefed on the budget said. That's one reason why Republican senators like Scott Brown of Massachusetts plus Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine would probably join Democratic efforts to keep funding levels higher.">>> ---- Smart republicans will jump on this and make seniors think he is trying to kill them,like when he attacked their Advantage.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 10, 2011 9:33:32 GMT -5
This program needs means testing. If you have a car that is less than 4 years old, a cell phone, flat screen TV, iPod, etc., you are tossed off. Appears to be allowed under the program: Other Eligibility Criteria LIHEAP grantees have the flexibility of serving only those income eligible households that meet additional LIHEAP eligibility criteria, such as passing an assets test, living in nonsubsidized housing; or receipt of a utility disconnection notice. (emphasis added) www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ocs/liheap/guidance/eligibility.html
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Feb 10, 2011 9:35:14 GMT -5
While the cuts will restore funding to 2008 levels, there are more people now that need help than there was then. This is an interesting subject especially for people living in drastically cold climates. I know there are laws in certain states restricting cutting off utilities during winter. It seems like the states most effected will have to step up their involvement, and not rely on the Feds. It would be interesting to see if this pushes more poor people into apartments that share utilities and leaves more single family homes vacant.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Feb 10, 2011 9:38:30 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 10, 2011 9:43:37 GMT -5
I did. So is there something about it you wish to discuss? Yes, the article points out this handout is not being cut. "President Obama wants to cut its funding roughly in half"
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 10, 2011 9:49:31 GMT -5
"By DARLENE SUPERVILLE, Associated Press Darlene Superville, Associated Press – Thu Feb 10, 12:26 am ET WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama wants to cut $2.5 billion from a $5 billion home heating aid program for the poor, two people familiar with his 2012 budget proposal said Wednesday, halving the popular fund as he looks for places to rein in federal spending.
The proposal would cut the Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program to its 2008 level of about $2.5 billion.
The individuals, including a congressional aide who was briefed on the proposal, discussed the details on condition of anonymity because Obama's spending plan has not been issued. It was being released on Monday, and covers the budget year beginning Oct. 1."
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 10, 2011 9:51:22 GMT -5
"By DARLENE SUPERVILLE, Associated Press Darlene Superville, Associated Press – Thu Feb 10, 12:26 am ET WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama wants to cut $2.5 billion from a $5 billion home heating aid program for the poor, two people familiar with his 2012 budget proposal said Wednesday, halving the popular fund as he looks for places to rein in federal spending. The proposal would cut the Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program to its 2008 level of about $2.5 billion. The individuals, including a congressional aide who was briefed on the proposal, discussed the details on condition of anonymity because Obama's spending plan has not been issued. It was being released on Monday, and covers the budget year beginning Oct. 1." ----- Sounds sort of like a cut to me....
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 10, 2011 11:52:40 GMT -5
I really am getting confused here...if we can just once get off the political, the Obama just for a short bit...I brought this particuler programs potential cut and kerrys response about who it is hurting up on another thread.. there itn was suggested assuming all the programs that are cut are worthy. There is going to be pain. It is a given that one has to look at entitlements if there is really a desire to reduce the deficit, our discretionary spending is not enough. If we stopped discretionary complety , which is impossible, it wouldn't be enough..but now as just one program is made public..it seems many aren't happy. Help me out here, what is wanted. If you asking for you and I to make the decision of what is cut..it's not going to happen, sorry to disuade you there, , what do people really want?
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frep
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Post by frep on Feb 10, 2011 12:15:14 GMT -5
A relative of mine that lives in almost a million dollar home got a heating grant this year for $1800 after he lost his job so I'm not sure where the supposed means test is coming from.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 10, 2011 12:26:55 GMT -5
A relative of mine that lives in almost a million dollar home got a heating grant this year for $1800 after he lost his job so I'm not sure where the supposed means test is coming from. It's the way the programs are written..that he lives in such a expensive home has nothing to do with qualifying for a grant..no job, no income or not enough to disqualify him , possible no linking at assetts on this progeam..he may still qualify for food stamps too.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 10, 2011 13:59:10 GMT -5
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 10, 2011 20:33:44 GMT -5
toufh...you are correct. And it's not just this program...While some might disagree , I believe every program the government participates in has some merit. Some , such as a study of some endangered frog, snail similar while not a life or death situation, would have some one arguing the merits of the program. Those would have , even with the merits argued, easy ones to do away with in tough fiscal times as we have now, though expect some one some where crying out foul.
The point is all have merit and many can cause suffering if curtailed or eliminated. This is one of the problems I have with the tea party . They want less government, less government spending, less programs. I don't believe they have looked at what that entails, what type of hurt it will put on so many of their fellow citizens when these programs are put into the hopper and eliminated, or possible they do and did, look into them and just don't care.
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humok
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Post by humok on Feb 10, 2011 20:37:29 GMT -5
hummmm...Think....shouldn't we cut money we are giving to other countries before we cut money to help our own?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 10, 2011 20:43:16 GMT -5
... ... I don't believe they have looked at what that entails, what type of hurt it will put on so many of their fellow citizens when these programs are put into the hopper and eliminated, or possible they do and did, look into them and just don't care. I think they operate on the belief that if people get cold enough and/or hungry enough, they will finally get off their lazy asses and take one of those well paying jobs just waiting for them out there, allowing them to support themselves and their families.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 10, 2011 20:45:53 GMT -5
hummmm...Think....shouldn't we cut money we are giving to other countries before we cut money to help our own? sure but it really isn't as much in the total picture as you think. It will be in the billions ,,lets see what i can come up with off the top of my head. Israel ..3 b, Egypt ..1.6 b Pakistan 7.5 b over 5 years plus say a b a year in military Afganistan {not counting the war} 6 b plis still hav afgnistan war, still cost in Iraq, 50,000 trops..till at least next year but still a cost..a bit to Jordan, UN ...Africa for diseases and other humanatarian.... I get a quick 16 billion plus and there is more , say 20 billion total? where do you want to cut?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 10, 2011 20:51:01 GMT -5
A relative of mine that lives in almost a million dollar home got a heating grant this year for $1800 after he lost his job so I'm not sure where the supposed means test is coming from. It's the way the programs are written..that he lives in such a expensive home has nothing to do with qualifying for a grant..no job, no income or not enough to disqualify him , possible no linking at assetts on this progeam..he may still qualify for food stamps too. Therein lies the rub. If this person had a job that would allow him to own and maintain a home of that size, he should have had the assets to hold out for awhile after the loss of his job. If he can't get another job, it's time to downsize, bruddah! In my opinion, it's this kind of greed that sinks programs meant to help those who are truly needy through no fault of their own.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 10, 2011 21:31:48 GMT -5
It's the way the programs are written..that he lives in such a expensive home has nothing to do with qualifying for a grant..no job, no income or not enough to disqualify him , possible no linking at assetts on this progeam..he may still qualify for food stamps too. Therein lies the rub. If this person had a job that would allow him to own and maintain a home of that size, he should have had the assets to hold out for awhile after the loss of his job. If he can't get another job, it's time to downsize, bruddah! In my opinion, it's this kind of greed that sinks programs meant to help those who are truly needy through no fault of their own. Not sure if it's greed or poor judgement, thinking everything is going to be good..and for so many years it was...returns in the market, to people who had no clue to what they they were doing in the mid 20% area..LOL, basically one gets a feelong nothing ever goes down for more then three days and then automatically goes up and beyond the record highs, same with homes, wages, bonuses and the feeling we are supposed to live forever ..right?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 10, 2011 21:55:52 GMT -5
... and the feeling we are supposed to live forever ..right?What do you mean? I'm not going to live forever? I want to talk to a supervisor this minute!!!
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 11, 2011 8:45:58 GMT -5
he can't sell his assets, like the big house, no one is buying.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 11, 2011 15:59:54 GMT -5
work if your talking about " -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A relative of mine that lives in almost a million dollar home got a heating grant this year for $1800 after he lost his job so I'm not sure where the supposed means test is coming from --------", mmmmm, regarding your post, --------------------------- " If this person had a job that would allow him to own and maintain a home of that size, he should have had the assets to hold out for awhile after the loss of his job. If he can't get another job, it's time to downsize, bruddah!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Your both correct.
I am assuming the cousin had a well paying job to be able to purchase this size home and even with a good down payment , normal savings and investments, has a big nut mortgage and possible not the greatest interest rate.
Anyone loses their job and has a home with a mortgage , even a more modest abode, it will be tough even with normal savings to be able to hold on to the home.
If they are making a more normal considered, average income possible they can find a job easier, even if paying less but with economizing on other things , renegotiating with the bank, possible be able to hold on to the home.
If one is one of those hi salaried folks who lost their job, it might be harder and with the nut facing them, the taxes on the abode, heating bills..mortgage , interest..a normal good paying job just won't cut it, and as far as selling , down sizing as work says no one is buying especially to cover what he paid...so selling the asset isn't going to work.
Caught behind the rock and the hard place as so many are.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Feb 11, 2011 18:21:56 GMT -5
Not all wealthy people have high incomes
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 11, 2011 18:30:50 GMT -5
No, actually a lot are older folks who are in a home they purchased decades ago, but the value has gone sky high and the taxes are unaffordable. Florida prorects the elderly there..can't remember th formula but taxes are linited as to how much they rise till proerty is sold, transferred so theya ren't forced out of a home they can't afford to pay taxes on. But if your in a expensive home , not a senior, taxes can kill you .....right now to sell witrh prices so low...rock and the hard place.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 11, 2011 20:26:03 GMT -5
But the repubs are wanting to cut all the social programs, get rid of SS, medicare, and everything. That's been their plan since its been enacted. The dems don't want to do it but the country is electing people that want to so what is he to do?? these are the mandated programs that are called entitlements..there will be some immediate cuts..what I don't know..possible not allowing increases even if inflation rises for a # of years..possible changing some of the benefits immediately, most likely passing cuts on to future generations, rising age to get full SS...point is something will have to be done on those entitlements , what you and I have no say..but something will have to be done, the only place to get meaningful reductions in the debt though by allowing those Bush tax breaks on the richest , say a million up then..........LOL ;D
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