AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 10, 2011 12:18:35 GMT -5
Tastes and preferences- like feelings- are subjective. It shouldn't be a "goal" to force society to achieve some kind of purely aesthetic goal subjectively set by policy makers. Therefore a "racially diverse" society isn't some sort of "achievement". We don't need to be "diverse" anymore than we need to be all white, or all black, or all mexican, or all arab. It should be a non-factor from a policy standpoint.
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Post by marjar on Feb 10, 2011 12:20:06 GMT -5
I've recently spent a great deal of time with two (unrelated) liberal-elitist that made my distaste for liberals grow quite a bit. Neither of them will participate in public school or live in a mixed area. They want their kids to go to the elite schools, etc. When asked why, as liberals, they don't want to mix among the people their answer is clear and unashamed - The people need us to get a better education so we can lead them. It stinks rotten of "Some animals are more equal than others." (Or is it "Some pigs are more equal than others"? I always forget.) I can provide anecdotal tales of conservatives who are racist. What's the point? Sadly, racism is alive and well and it crosses all demographics.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 10, 2011 12:21:00 GMT -5
And then there's the liberal Lyndon Johnson (LBJ) who said in signing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (against his party and with the help of a Republican coalition), "I'll have them [n words] voting Democrat for 200 years" Poor Lyndon was knocked about a lot, but on this one, one of his best friends , Southern Senator, told him , when informed he was going ahead with the civil rights bill, he would lose the South and the Presidency, Lyndon told his top adviser, that he , the Senator, eas right and wrong. He wouldn't lose the presidency, he didn't, but the South would be lost to the Democrats , it was. He was a brave man on decisions..and that one was one of the best ever done, by a President. There was nothing particularly "brave" about the civil rights act. By the time it was signed into law, it wasn't policy driving culture- it was, as policy so often is, culture driving policy. The policy was a lagging indicator of what had already happened. It codified the inevitable.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 10, 2011 12:28:44 GMT -5
I can provide anecdotal tales of conservatives who are racist. What's the point? Sadly, racism is alive and well and it crosses all demographics. Here is non-anecdotal evidence. The Clinton's refused to send Chelsea to the DC public schools. She attended public schools there until her father's election to the Presidency of the United States at which time she attended and graduated from the private Sidwell Friends School in Washington, D.C. www.answers.com/topic/chelsea-clintonRead more: www.answers.com/topic/chelsea-clinton#ixzz1DZtW3mgwThe Obama's are sending their daughters to Sidwell Friends: www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/21/politics/main4625929.shtmlI also imagine that every single Kennedy kid was in an exclusive private school. It is not that supposed racism exists across demographics, it is being intellectually dishonest about it.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 10, 2011 12:29:43 GMT -5
Thank you marjar. I hate when people say racism is dead or on the flip side accuse one group of being more racist than another. Racism still exists, although not as bad as it once was. But, it is still often publically acceptable when you are referring to certain groups. It has become much less acceptable to say something racist about blacks, but make a innappropriate comment about mexicans or muslims & a lot of people don't even blink.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 10, 2011 12:33:38 GMT -5
I think that is the deal. The liberals say they want a better deal for all people, but when push comes to shove, they want everyone else to pay for that better deal. Segregation doesn't help - even if it is segregation by class and wealth instead of race. And these particular people were very clear that they believed segregation would help everyone because then the wealthy people could just give things to the poor people. Well - how about give them some respect!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 10, 2011 12:34:42 GMT -5
My point isn't actually about racism - it is about classism. There is a big difference. I'm sure my liberals would rather their kids hang out with rich, educated black people than poor, white trash.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 10, 2011 12:35:17 GMT -5
I can provide anecdotal tales of conservatives who are racist. What's the point? Sadly, racism is alive and well and it crosses all demographics. Here is non-anecdotal evidence. The Clinton's refused to send Chelsea to the DC public schools. She attended public schools there until her father's election to the Presidency of the United States at which time she attended and graduated from the private Sidwell Friends School in Washington, D.C. www.answers.com/topic/chelsea-clintonRead more: www.answers.com/topic/chelsea-clinton#ixzz1DZtW3mgwThe Obama's are sending their daughters to Sidwell Friends: www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/21/politics/main4625929.shtmlI also imagine that every single Kennedy kid was in an exclusive private school. It is not that supposed racism exists across demographics, it is being intellectually dishonest about it. It seems to me that the commonality inherent in both the Clinton's and the Obama's deciding to send their school aged children to the same school is the Presidency, not race.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 10, 2011 12:36:29 GMT -5
I would think that security issues play a part when you have to pick a school for the children of the POTUS. High profile Senators (like Kennedy) probably have a similiar issue.
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Post by ed1066 on Feb 10, 2011 12:37:26 GMT -5
I'm not so sure about that. I believe racism against whites is on the rise in a lot of places. And of course, the racism of the left wing is still going quite strong, as many here have pointed out. Or are you one of those who believe non-whites cannot be racist?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2011 12:39:21 GMT -5
I'm 54 YO, kind of young in the race issue, maybe. My parents were not racists, so I am not racist, and my kids are not racist. That is the key, I think. Racist people may raise racist kids. Maybe. I have known racist people, and prefer not to be too close to them. I dated a racist guy for awhile. But I had no idea at first that he was that way, even though I knew him socially for 6 years before I dated him, because he hid behind a screen of political correctness. We went our own ways when I found out that we were so different. I still talk to him on the phone sometimes, and he is still a racist. He is in his second year of college now, and loves to tell me how he shocks his classmates and professors with his racist and anti gay thoughts. We bicker non-stop about it. I met his father once-- he is a very racist old man and not at all PC about it. This is why I don't like the whole idea of PC. I think it is dangerous and allows an undercurrent in society where bad things could happen. But-- I do not see racists around every corner, either. It's just not fact.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Feb 10, 2011 12:39:55 GMT -5
I can provide anecdotal tales of conservatives who are racist. What's the point? Sadly, racism is alive and well and it crosses all demographics. Here is non-anecdotal evidence. The Clinton's refused to send Chelsea to the DC public schools. She attended public schools there until her father's election to the Presidency of the United States at which time she attended and graduated from the private Sidwell Friends School in Washington, D.C. www.answers.com/topic/chelsea-clintonRead more: www.answers.com/topic/chelsea-clinton#ixzz1DZtW3mgwThe Obama's are sending their daughters to Sidwell Friends: www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/21/politics/main4625929.shtmlI also imagine that every single Kennedy kid was in an exclusive private school. It is not that supposed racism exists across demographics, it is being intellectually dishonest about it. O-kay... Security of child(ren) of the President has nothing to do with anything?
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 10, 2011 12:42:10 GMT -5
I think that is the deal. The liberals say they want a better deal for all people, but when push comes to shove, they want everyone else to pay for that better deal. Segregation doesn't help - even if it is segregation by class and wealth instead of race. And these particular people were very clear that they believed segregation would help everyone because then the wealthy people could just give things to the poor people. Well - how about give them some respect!
You will not find section 8 housing or affordable housing developments in Hyannisport, MA.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 10, 2011 12:42:12 GMT -5
I've recently spent a great deal of time with two (unrelated) liberal-elitist that made my distaste for liberals grow quite a bit. Neither of them will participate in public school or live in a mixed area. They want their kids to go to the elite schools, etc. When asked why, as liberals, they don't want to mix among the people their answer is clear and unashamed - The people need us to get a better education so we can lead them. It stinks rotten of "Some animals are more equal than others." (Or is it "Some pigs are more equal than others"? I always forget.) I can provide anecdotal tales of conservatives who are racist. What's the point? Sadly, racism is alive and well and it crosses all demographics. Damn and I always thought the idiots are on the other side..your still close to these two AH's? If so, and haven't distanced your self I have to ask, why?
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 10, 2011 12:44:45 GMT -5
O-kay... Security of child(ren) of the President has nothing to do with anything? Are you suggesting that the public school system's are war zones? Are you also saying the security of other children in the schools is less important? Do I have to drive to Philly this weekend so we can slug it ou?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 10, 2011 12:44:48 GMT -5
They are co-workers. It is interesting to talk to people with different ideas. It helps me to try and understand what people think.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Feb 10, 2011 12:45:59 GMT -5
<<< I'm 54 YO, kind of young in the race issue, maybe. ... ... I dated a racist guy for awhile. ... ... . He is in his second year of college now, >>>
...if, at 50ish, you were dating a 20ish guy... well, you Go girl... ;D
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 10, 2011 12:46:25 GMT -5
Now you are kinding mixing things up & it starts to get complicated - not all rich are educated, not all poor are trash. I would rather my kids hang out with someone that works hard in school than dropped out & deals drugs - I don't care whether they are rich or poor, white or black.
Maybe your liberal friends believe too many stereotypes & believe that all poor are lazy, with welfare mindsets, & live in trashed out houses & do drugs in the back alley. I guess that is classism or maybe just ignorance.
I don't think racism against whites is on the rise - it may be more visible now that whites aren't quite the majority they once were. I also don't see why everyone thinks the left wing is so racist. Maybe you all have a few liberal friends that are racist, but as a group liberals are no more racist than conservatives.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 10, 2011 12:47:09 GMT -5
No, but, it is highly unlikely that most people know my children exist, and even more unlikely that there would be some political statement made by taking them or harming them in some way.
You argument amounts to saying that we should all have secret service agents with us at all times because we are as valueable as Obama. Yet, somehow we all walk around without issue. Hmpf - I wonder why?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2011 12:47:20 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with the Obama children going to a private school-- security- but it is fact that Obama took away the voucher program from those area schools, and lots of little black children from poor families had to leave the school. I saw parents on TV that were devastated that their kids had to go back to underachieving schools.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 10, 2011 12:48:43 GMT -5
Sorry Angel - I should have been more specific. My friends want their kids to hang out with rich AND educated intellectuals that are like them. Their race is secondary. Poor people - hard working or not - do not make the cut.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 10, 2011 12:51:04 GMT -5
Poor Lyndon was knocked about a lot, but on this one, one of his best friends , Southern Senator, told him , when informed he was going ahead with the civil rights bill, he would lose the South and the Presidency, Lyndon told his top adviser, that he , the Senator, eas right and wrong. He wouldn't lose the presidency, he didn't, but the South would be lost to the Democrats , it was. He was a brave man on decisions..and that one was one of the best ever done, by a President. There was nothing particularly "brave" about the civil rights act. By the time it was signed into law, it wasn't policy driving culture- it was, as policy so often is, culture driving policy. The policy was a lagging indicator of what had already happened. It codified the inevitable. Your wrong..it was a brave and so long over due decision..finally the Dixie Crats had to be over come , no matter what the political consequences were and they were great.. Politics do run the country not with standing the Constitution, but to think it was not a brave political decision is not understanding the courage, politically needed. Lyndon and I have a lot of things to discuuss face to face on a personal basis..even giving him his due of being caught in a place he didn't want to be and didn't know how to get out of , even with all his experience but on this act, I have only admiration and kudo's for him. Up to this time we had many Presidents, some considered by some our greatest who could but wouldn't pay the politicial price of righting this horrible wrong that was such a big part of our countrys shame for so long. What ever his faults, here he said, "Enough already, we , I will correct this abomination , let the chips fall were they will, it will be done". It was, thank the lord.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Feb 10, 2011 12:53:33 GMT -5
O-kay... Security of child(ren) of the President has nothing to do with anything? Are you suggesting that the public school system's are war zones? Are you also saying the security of other children in the schools is less important? Do I have to drive to Philly this weekend so we can slug it ou? Yeah! Slug it out over beers! All I'm saying is there isn't much interest in kidnapping me for ransom, as opposed to the child of a president. I don't know the D.C. school system, but if it's anything like Philly's then it's not a shock that the president or any parent would enroll their child in a private school or charter school. A lot of the Philly schools are scary and a huge reason why parents across all socio-economic and racial lines are trying to get their kids into alternate schools. I was lucky enough to go to a fantastic public school, but my half-siblings went to private schools. I could be wrong, but I don't think my Dad and stepmom have anything against me. No- I take that back, my stepmom is an elitist bitch.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2011 12:54:08 GMT -5
LOL, been there!! No, my racist friend is an old man like me that went back to college 2 years ago when the jobs disappeared. Why would any of us associate with racists and other not so nice people?? They are fascinating, to me. Like thyme said-- different ideas. I love knowing all POVs on issues. That is how I firm up who I am-- by contrast, you could say. Like-- "I am not sure how I feel about %^%^&^#, but it is sure not how THAT person feels!" If you surround yourself with sameness, how can you know what is really going on?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 10, 2011 13:00:36 GMT -5
Sorry Angel - I should have been more specific. My friends want their kids to hang out with rich AND educated intellectuals that are like them. Their race is secondary. Poor people - hard working or not - do not make the cut. Gotcha. Ok, I would consider that classism if all poor aren't worthy of being friends with your kids.
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Feb 10, 2011 13:02:06 GMT -5
Hellooo burns..........
Well good day to you Mr. diverdown. With all the dust and smoke here I almost missed your salutation. So are you back behind the plate? /Dalton
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Post by ed1066 on Feb 10, 2011 13:06:23 GMT -5
There may be an element of classism there, but there is a major element of hypocrisy when a liberal Democrat sends their kids to an elite private school, then tells me I should not be able to have a choice to send my kids to a charter school or homeschool as an equal-cost alternative to public schools...my area has two of the top five public school districts in California, but we chose to homeschool, and there is a constant undercurrent of attack by the liberal Dems who run this state against homeschooling. As Paul said, it's the indoctrination that's the problem in the public schools, not the different colors of the kids...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2011 13:07:53 GMT -5
The CLASS issue-- another reason I am pleased my kids married (Mexican) Americans-- God, how I hate saying that-- labels bug me!! I am pretty poor, divorced.. my kids married UP, you could say, by marrying who they did. They married in to families that I wish they could have grown up in, which makes me happy for my grandchildren and for my kids. That does not sound right, either, but I know what I mean. Deal is-- we live in a really good part of town where most families have 2 parents and money, and as my kids got older it was the Mexican kids from good families that were more accepting of my kids as far as dating, etc. Believe me, I have wondered if THEIR families were happy with their kid's choice of partners, but they are VERY nice to my kids, and do not seem to mind having white in-law kids from broken homes in their families and half white grandbabies.. See how absurd it all is???
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 10, 2011 13:13:03 GMT -5
I can provide anecdotal tales of conservatives who are racist. What's the point? Sadly, racism is alive and well and it crosses all demographics. Here is non-anecdotal evidence. The Clinton's refused to send Chelsea to the DC public schools. She attended public schools there until her father's election to the Presidency of the United States at which time she attended and graduated from the private Sidwell Friends School in Washington, D.C [/size][/size][/size][/size].[/quote] Savoire-aren't you being a bit intellectually dishonest too? The children of our presidents are not exactly living a normal life like other children. There are a number of considerations that must be taken into account including the security of the children of presidents. Many private schools grounds offer greater protection that an open and exposed public school ever could. George W. Bush's two daughters attended private schools when he was governor up through the 8th grade. They then attended Austin Public High school. I don't believe former presdient Bush's decision to send his children to a private school was racially motivated. It simply offered better protection for his children. By the time Bush became president, his daughters had graduated from high school. The children of elected officials in high government postions simply require greater consideration for their personal safety.
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Post by marjar on Feb 10, 2011 13:14:48 GMT -5
My point isn't actually about racism - it is about classism. There is a big difference. I'm sure my liberals would rather their kids hang out with rich, educated black people than poor, white trash. Are you saying rich Republicans don't want the same for their kids?
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