The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 25, 2013 14:33:50 GMT -5
I've said this before and I'll say it again - we are our own worst enemy.
How many people read the article in the link from the OP?
The author took a new job KNOWING she was trying to get pregnant. When she did become pregnant and couldn't hack the morning sickness and working full time she quite. Then at the end of the article she states that poor helpless women need even MORE legal protection because what exists is apparently not sufficient.
There are protections in place, if she had been smart (and fair to her employer) she would have waited a year then she would have been covered by FMLA.
I know that worker/employer loyalty is almost extinct - but seriously - don't you think you owe your new employer at least a year before planning to take an extended leave?
Are we strong and capable of taking care of ourselves and proving the value we provide, or do we want to play the Cinderella card and wait to be resuced by Prince Charming when things don't go our way?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 25, 2013 14:36:17 GMT -5
happy - yes, there are jerks out there who hold gender against you - but I don't think that is the standard anymore. It may have been 20 years ago, but I haven't heard anyone be so blantant, ever. I feel like women (as a whole) have a problem by crying wolf. You have a valid complaint, with that one guy at that one company. But if every woman walks around thinking they are handicapped because they can't just get work done, they will be handicapped. You deal with the jerks when you run into them. Just as I'm sure there are plenty of people who have a story about a racist idiot, but that doesn't mean that every single work situation will expect non-white people to act differently. And if they do base all their professional interactions on the premise that they must act differently, it will work against them.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 25, 2013 14:42:48 GMT -5
I always see this, but I know a whole bunch (dozens) of men who are doing well in their career, who don't give a shit if they are perceived as assholes. The difference between men and women aren't that men are considered competent and women are considered bitchy. It is that when some low level employee calls an executive man an asshole, the man doesn't think twice about. But when some low level employee calls an executive woman a bitch, the woman gets all worked up and then writes a book about unfair it is that she was called a name. The women I know who are doing well don't give a shit either. They just get the job done. If someone doesn't like them, so what. I don't know if it's so much whether women care if they are perceived as bitchy, but that 'bitchy women' are considered negatives in the workplace, while asshole men aren't. Back at my last job when I worked for the Giant Dick, he made it clear he didn't like women in roles other than admin/secretarial functions. There were three of us women managers and he couldn't stand us in those roles and constantly undermined us. Once I got onto an employee for failing to do something and called him on it in a meeting. The Giant Dick got onto me, saying I "needed to learn how to be nice." Right there in the meeting in front of my co-workers. Not once - never ever - did the Giant Dick tell a male manager in my presence that he needed to be 'nice.' And he himself (the Giant Dick) was one of those screaming tyrant type bosses who routinely had people either quit or cry or both at the same time. There was no question that HE needed to be 'nice.' Just me - the female. I didn't - and don't - care if people think I'm a bitch. I am a bitch sometimes. But some workplaces won't tolerate a woman doing what men do - swearing, being assertive, disciplining an employee - instead women are supposed to be sweet, polite, soft spoken and co-operative with the males they work with. I'm pleased to say the Giant Dick was rare, and his attitude toward women is less common these days (and yes, he did get fired, finally, for being a Giant Dick) but it is still out there, just in a more subtle form. Happy - Just as with everything sometimes we have to adapt. No differetly than how a 20 something is perceived as opposed to a 50 something. They both could act the same way and one will be called cocky and the other will be called confident. Now it is possible that they both may be correct in their level of self-confidence; however, only one is usually preceived as having the "right". I've seen one person called assertive and another one aggressive with the exact same behaviour. Like you, I don't really care if people think I'm a bitch. However in my current environment it will do nothing to advance my career so I sometime have to be a lot more gentle in my persuasion, or build my business case more strongly. Does it suck that the guys don't have to go to the same measures? Not really - I find it good training to be well prepared at all times.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Feb 25, 2013 14:44:12 GMT -5
Yes I read both articles. I took more to the point of the first article that she was trying to do as the author of the book said and "lean in" to her career before she got pregnant because that was one of the points of the book. Her morning sickness was apparently not on the average side of thing. While still "normal" it sounded extreme. We had a lovely discussiong that went NOWHERE on this topic back in December. She would have been there about 8 months before she had the baby if she had stayed. Also, in terms of "extended" leave. I took 6 weeks maternity leave this time working one half day a week the last month of it. I really don't feel like it was "extended" at all. I got all my emails, was kept in the loop, and 90% of the problems got solved without me (one did require me to bust my rear when DD was 2 weeks old and that pissed me off, but it was doable). ETA: The discussion from Dec/January notmsnmoney.proboards.com/thread/29480/professional-life-pregnancy-maternity-leave
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 25, 2013 14:51:14 GMT -5
happy - yes, there are jerks out there who hold gender against you - but I don't think that is the standard anymore. It may have been 20 years ago, but I haven't heard anyone be so blantant, ever. I feel like women (as a whole) have a problem by crying wolf. You have a valid complaint, with that one guy at that one company. But if every woman walks around thinking they are handicapped because they can't just get work done, they will be handicapped. You deal with the jerks when you run into them. Just as I'm sure there are plenty of people who have a story about a racist idiot, but that doesn't mean that every single work situation will expect non-white people to act differently. And if they do base all their professional interactions on the premise that they must act differently, it will work against them. You'd be surprised how man women (and probably a few men) don't realize how to get promoted and fret over promotional opportunities. As I said in the beginning, it seems like every month or two we get a women here on this very board who asks if she should apply for a promotion or not, or ask for a raise or whatever. It's pretty common. For example, a couple of months ago Moneyjenny wasn't sure if she should apply for a job because she didn't meet all the requirements. We all told her that yes she should. And she got it.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 25, 2013 14:52:41 GMT -5
No, career minded women just need to get smart and do what men have been doing for ages. Find a supportive guy who will take over the lion's share of the housework and child rearing. Give up on looking for the white knight. I really don't care what life a woman set-ups for herself - or how much she devotes to a career, or her family, or who she decides to juggle that. As long as inputs to outputs is equitable. But study after study finds that it's not. The same behaviors are "leadership potential" for men and "bitchy" for women. The exact same resume with a man's name is evaluated as more capable and deserving of a higher initial salary offer. These are the issues that need to be addressed. Okay, in your first post you mentioned about the government legislating something or a company creating a policy to address this. How do you propose the government legislate peoples' perceptions of how women act?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 15:01:08 GMT -5
I think she has a point when she says women sabotage themselves. There is no such thing as "I have to do all the work around the house cause my husband won't". Hire a house keeper or let the place become a pig stye. We don't "have to" take care of the house personally. I agree with thyme about women getting bent out of shape being called a bitch. Men get criticized just as much for the same behaviour. The only ones that get away with it are the ones with the talent to offset it.
The women I know that basically ignore the idea that there is some reason they can't be as succesful as men do very well.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 25, 2013 15:03:04 GMT -5
They absolutely do have to go to the same measures. Smart men read the political situation and act accordingly. Some places aggressiveness is rewarded, sometimes it is too much. Some bosses like people who act one way, and the next department over the boss wants something different. I agree that everyone needs to be able to adapt as every organization is different.[/span]
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 15:10:03 GMT -5
BTW she specified that her advice was for ambitious women. She isn't talking to all women.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 25, 2013 15:10:03 GMT -5
I've said this before and I'll say it again - we are our own worst enemy. How many people read the article in the link from the OP? The author took a new job KNOWING she was trying to get pregnant. When she did become pregnant and couldn't hack the morning sickness and working full time she quite. Then at the end of the article she states that poor helpless women need even MORE legal protection because what exists is apparently not sufficient. There are protections in place, if she had been smart (and fair to her employer) she would have waited a year then she would have been covered by FMLA. I know that worker/employer loyalty is almost extinct - but seriously - don't you think you owe your new employer at least a year before planning to take an extended leave? Are we strong and capable of taking care of ourselves and proving the value we provide, or do we want to play the Cinderella card and wait to be resuced by Prince Charming when things don't go our way? I was thinking the same thing. There's a big difference between harpooning your career before it even starts because you might get pregnant someday and taking a demanding new job when you're trying to get pregnant. She wasn't be ambitious. She was being stupid. No matter how understanding your SO and boss are, it is the woman's body that has to go through the pregnancy, you can't predict how it will go, and even with a cakewalk pregnancy and good natured baby, you're not going to be 100% for a good long while. And like it or not, either you can do the job or you can't.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 25, 2013 15:22:21 GMT -5
"I don't believe that I made any such statement."
I was mistaken, it was the OP who suggested government legislation, Ann81.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 25, 2013 15:26:23 GMT -5
"Happy - Just as with everything sometimes we have to adapt. No differetly than how a 20 something is perceived as opposed to a 50 something. They both could act the same way and one will be called cocky and the other will be called confident. Now it is possible that they both may be correct in their level of self-confidence; however, only one is usually preceived as having the "right"."
Tell me about it. In my old job, that was a major source of contention. To the all the 50+ year olds I worked with, I always had an "attitude" no matter what I did. Even an act of asking a question was showing an attitude, as was doing the same things they did.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 25, 2013 16:55:54 GMT -5
I don't think it's blatant anymore but it's still there.
I had another boss who only took seriously the suggestions that came from the men in the department. If I made a suggestion he would dismiss it. I learned to tell my suggestion to one of my male co-workers and let him present the suggestion as his own. Then it would receive serious consideration and, often, approval. So do I continue to funnel my suggestions through my male co-worker and let him get the credit, or keep making suggestions that get ignored because I don't have a dick?
I'm fortunate that I'm in a place in my career where I qualify for promotions based on my time with the company and merit, and I don't think there is a bias against me because I'm female anymore - but this is probably also related to the fact that my DS has flown the nest so I don't have kids to take care of (still, I think, a big reason women aren't considered for promotions as much as men - they have to rush home to their families). But I think there is still a bias there.
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quince
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Post by quince on Feb 25, 2013 21:30:13 GMT -5
I would not- I don't like gender specific groups/parties/organizations/clubs/events.
My husband will always do his share of the housework, childcare, etc- I'm taking time off, but if/when I go back to work, whatever my job ends up being, even if I'm earning 25% of what he is, will be just as important and I will be able to devote just as much time/flexibility to it as he will to his, because that's part of the agreement. I will never be doing the primary caregiver/full time worker combo deal while still being married- either we're 50/50, or I get to make space in my life for childcare responsibilities, or he gets to make space in his life for childcare responsibilities. Because neither of us are assholes and we each make enough to support the family.
I think there's probably a little bit from both columns here- some women make choices that complicate their ambitions, such as taking the lion's share of the responsibilities at home (and this IS a choice) or pulling back from being ambitious and aggressive, not negotiating and pushing to reach further. I am also aware of those studies that show that ambitious women are penalized for behaviors that ambitious men are rewarded for, and it is pretty damned hard when you have to try to find gender specific mentors to work around gender specific expectations for behavior in contexts that should NOT be gender specific, as well as work around societal expectations that you will be the primary caregiver, and that aggressiveness and ambition are not desirable traits for someone with your genitalia.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Feb 25, 2013 21:46:26 GMT -5
What kinds of jobs are those, exactly? I have never heard that term before.
I don't think a group like the OP talks about is my thing. I'm pretty driven on my own, and I'm doing my best to make being a mom and a good employee work.
In terms of women in the work place, we've got an interesting situation at my work right now. We have a new boss who is a woman. Most of us are really excited about the change. She is open to suggestions, works with us, encourages us and gives us some leeway to try things out. This place has largely been a good old boys club. You know who is not happy about the change? A couple of guys who got away with doing nothing because they were buddy-buddy with the old boss. They're giving her attitude and actually ignoring assignments she gives them. Those guys had better watch out because I get the feeling that once she gets her bearings in this new job, she's about to go toe-to-toe with some people.
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quince
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Post by quince on Feb 25, 2013 23:09:50 GMT -5
I think it IS something that takes time to resolve, because this part of the problem at least sits with how people are socialized, and that takes generations to correct. There's already the bitter joke that has been around for a generation or two that women have to work twice as hard and do twice as well to get half the credit- I don't think it's quite that extreme anymore, but I think yes, at first, it WILL be harder, and with that breakthrough eventually the demographics at higher levels of employment will be more equalized, and aggressive, ambitious, successful women will be more of a norm.
I don't think "sit and wait" by itself is a good solution, I definitely am not a fan of quotas. I like companies that push to include women and take a hard look when there's a disproportionate amount of males in upper management compared to the make-up of the company as a whole, WITHOUT forcing the promotion of "overlooked minorities". Just making sure that someone outside the expected set of traits is considered is appropriate, I think, without crossing the line. And yes, women who want to advance do themselves no favors complaining about work-life balance or how their husbands don't help out at home. The expectation of a woman being the primary caregiver/primarily responsible for housework when brought up at work needs to be shot down, by HR if necessary, but outside of work, it is the woman's job to manage her family life, and despite societal expectations, her fault if she lets that sort of situation stand.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 26, 2013 9:34:34 GMT -5
"As long as each gets outputs=inputs, and no gender difs, then that is fair."
Agreed 100%. However when statements such as this are made:
"Though my story would not be allowed in Sandberg’s circle of positivity, let me share it, because it’s instructive in showing how the United States’ lack of support for pregnant women threw me right off my career track."
When someone claims they need extra support, or extra protections, they are not providing outputs=inputs in my opionion. In the case of the blog's author (and not an uncommon theme) their own choices have less impact on their success than the amount of resources society is supposed to throw at them to come to the rescue. Either you can cut in on equal terms or you can't.
We can't have it both ways. Either we are equal or we need special protections. By trying to have both we create bias and (in my opinoin, and apparently the opinion of the book's author) sabotage our own careers. It's on us, not "society" to ensure we succeed.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 26, 2013 10:19:03 GMT -5
I can go only from my own observations in a field that is known from not being family friendly. Quite honestly, my bosses didn't care how the job got done as long as a quality work product was produced and all deadlines were met.
We had a guy who took extra time to coach his son's baseball team. He did not get the juicy projects or the promotions because he was very clear that his family came first - and that is fine and he was fine with that as long as he met his assigned deadlines.
We had several women who took extra time off to attend to childrens needs or events. The best producer was totally fine with being "mommy tracked" as she accepted she made a choice to put her family first. Again, that is fine. What was not fine was the other ones complaining about being held back because they had children as if that was the only reason they were not getting ahead despite the fact that they did not produce as much as some others.
In my field, honestly if you promote someone under you who can't produce it is going to backfire on you. So the productive employees get the best pay, promotions, and opportunities regardless of gender. Perceptions have less impact (although I will admit there is still some bias) than actual results.
Not to say it doesn't exist, but I like to think bosses are into self-preservation enough to reward the productive employees, regardless of gender, race, religion, etc. If they aren't, then they will loose a competitive advantage and suffer in the long run as productive employees go to an environment where they will be rewarded.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 26, 2013 13:19:13 GMT -5
I am also aware of those studies that show that ambitious women are penalized for behaviors that ambitious men are rewarded for, and it is pretty damned hard when you have to try to find gender specific mentors to work around gender specific expectations for behavior in contexts that should NOT be gender specific, as well as work around societal expectations that you will be the primary caregiver, and that aggressiveness and ambition are not desirable traits for someone with your genitalia. Well, obviously some women are finding ways around this, which is one reason why it is so important for women to mentor each other. There are plenty of things that women can get away with that men can't or that minorities can do that non-minorities can't or foreigners can do that native born people can't. I've seen plenty of people keep their jobs and even promoted that would have been canned if they had been white, native born males.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 26, 2013 13:36:37 GMT -5
I think women are doing better than men in other races. I think sexism is less hindering than racism.
It goes back to my theory that changing your perception of "normal" is difficult. I was raised by a motivated business man and a SAHM. Although both my sisters thought "normal" was to be a SAHM, I just picked my Dad as my role model. So, I get up every day and go to work, just as he did. Women have the benefit of being raised by professionals.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Feb 26, 2013 15:56:23 GMT -5
Good luck getting Men to do their "share" of the housework. If my husband does anything he is "helping me out" He was supposed to get up at 5 am to help me clean. I sat here with the Alarm going off for 15 mins. And he is sound asleep. I am going to start my cleaning by vacuuming the master bedroom. Wish me luck. Sent from my MB855 using proboards The thing I don't understand is why it is so common for a woman who has dated the guy for a long time and lived with the guy to end up in this position. Isn't weeding out the housework parasites part of the point of dating forever and shacking up before getting married? former...when DH and I were dating we did the housework together. It has only been in the last 10 years or so that he dosn't do so much housework. He is still pounding nails in the basement, so I usually don't expect a lot of help from him. Sunday was an exception though. The party was for his Mother and the people invited over were all his family. He did bitch and moan about having to clean, and told me if he has to pay someone to clean, he will cut the family back somewhere else. He however has no limits for himself and can buy whatever he wants without regard to if we need it or if anyone else in the family likes it or finds it offensive. If he likes it we should all like it. I am wondering why only women in their 20's and 30's. I have never leaned away, but I find I would be willing to lean in, but I am past her target age group. I asked my boss at the large corp I formerly worked at if she had ever mentored any women after reading a similar article ... she seemed surprised and said no one had ever asked her. She was a very successful minority woman. I was surprised by her answer. Also my co-workers used to claim that the way she ran the dept was not necessarily the way the company wanted it to run. I worked for her for 3 years. I told my co-workers she was running the dept exactly the way her bosses wanted it run. In the end I had the very strong sense that she was going to take the fall for her boss and she was risking her health for it. Exactly what I expected to happen did happen, as soon as the financial market changed and the dept slowed down, they axed her and rolled the dept in with another one. The other dept could not have taken over without programming changes that were done, along with changes in the market and changes in regulations. The big bosses used to come in and give pep talks and the 20 somethings would eat up everything they said. I remember telling them you have to think about what they did not say too. My DH is up and down on his dependability, but he is sold on having a working spouse. He does tell his customers that it adds stability to the family and offers the benefit of pursuing other opportunities. He feels he would not have gone on his own without me working. We also would probably not have the rental properties we have. I would prefer not to be spread so think, and wish DH would turn down some things and just slow down. He is no slacker...but the cleaning is a hard thing to get your arms around. First we don't both agree on its importance and we pretty much agree that paying someone else to do it vs. the phil thinking of long term investment and measured against how much we make for our efforts is kind of hard to swallow. We are kind of in a position that we should not trust the cleaning to a service that is not bonded but DH is only willing to pay under the table wages. DH probaby has several thousand in prepaid debit cards in his drawer. We often may have several thousand $$ in the house. And we may just have a gold mine in info for someone looking to a carrer as an identity thief. I decided I did not want to risk the embarassment before I went through some training for his company. They indicated that he is responsible (not them) if there is a security breach. That may not be quite legal, but they are the mega corp with the $$ and we would go bust in any legal battle long before we won a case.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Feb 26, 2013 16:12:28 GMT -5
I've said this before and I'll say it again - we are our own worst enemy. How many people read the article in the link from the OP? The author took a new job KNOWING she was trying to get pregnant. When she did become pregnant and couldn't hack the morning sickness and working full time she quite. Then at the end of the article she states that poor helpless women need even MORE legal protection because what exists is apparently not sufficient. There are protections in place, if she had been smart (and fair to her employer) she would have waited a year then she would have been covered by FMLA. I know that worker/employer loyalty is almost extinct - but seriously - don't you think you owe your new employer at least a year before planning to take an extended leave? Are we strong and capable of taking care of ourselves and proving the value we provide, or do we want to play the Cinderella card and wait to be resuced by Prince Charming when things don't go our way? In one of my former jobs I was offered a promotion just after I had had a miscarriage. I discussed job offer with my family and my brother told me to take it even though I fully intended to continue to try to get pg. He argued that 1) I had no way of knowing if they might offer the job to another woman with the same intentions of having a child. I had no way of knowing if a man would take the job and quit in short order. I had no way of knowing how long the job would last and I did not know if I would actually carry a child to term. I had been working for them for several years at that point though. I took the job and had a baby within a year. They hired a temp while I was out and I came back and worked for them until my baby was 4. DD was born in 1997. I think we should get beyond thinking we owe an employer long term planning. I don't think they feel they owe us anything other than a week/a month/ or maybe a year. If it works out it works out. If it dosn't we will move on. Employer attitudes to employees have changed a lot since I started working in the early 80's and not for the better. I have worked for the best and the worst. One boss I had for a large company in the 80's was a gruff demanding Man, but when my 1st marrigae was falling apart I really appreciated him. 2nd large company I worked for I worked for a smart successful woman. Everyone that worked for her felt privledged. Same company I worked for the most demanding woman I have ever worked for. I believe the men above her wanted the department run just the way it was being run. She was a scapegoat. Most of us who worked for her hated the way she treated her employees but were loyal to her customer service ethics and standards. Women Mentoring Women or leaning in is a great idea... limiting it to women under 30 is cutting out potential mentors and years of experience.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 26, 2013 16:20:49 GMT -5
I think women are doing better than men in other races. I think sexism is less hindering than racism. It goes back to my theory that changing your perception of "normal" is difficult. I was raised by a motivated business man and a SAHM. Although both my sisters thought "normal" was to be a SAHM, I just picked my Dad as my role model. So, I get up every day and go to work, just as he did. Women have the benefit of being raised by professionals. I'm sure many will disagree, especially women's lib types. While I wouldn't go as far to say there's no sexism out there anymore, I think we're to the point where most, if not all societal barriers women face in advancing their career is over. Now that women can go into combat, there's really no policy or job in the U.S that states a woman cannot have it if she meets the qualifications. Women have done just about every job there is to do, from fly a plane to going into space to being a CEO. It's clear that if a woman is committed enough, there are plenty of examples of women achieving what they set out to do. What still likely exists is the perceptions that many (including women of themselves) have. And it's harder to fight what people think, either consiously or unconsiously.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Feb 26, 2013 17:17:26 GMT -5
Thanks Rukh...I had to look up pithy.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 26, 2013 17:42:38 GMT -5
So let's applaud the fact that: 1. Women think it's ok to take extended planned medical leaves multiple times during their career 2. Without having given their employer even a full year of service in some instances 3. String their employer along during the medical leave by promising they intend to come back full time 4. "Change their mind" the day before they are supposed to return and ask for part time, or not even come back at all, thus screwing their employer out of the chance to train for and fill the position for 6-12 weeks 5. Justify the above behaviour by stating we have a right to stay home with our children if we want to/we shouldn't be punished because we have a uterus And then get all twisted out of shape when there is a bias against working mothers... ummm yeah, right Keep drinking the cool aid.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 26, 2013 17:59:11 GMT -5
So let's applaud the fact that: 1. Women think it's ok to take extended planned medical leaves multiple times during their career 2. Without having given their employer even a full year of service in some instances 3. String their employer along during the medical leave by promising they intend to come back full time 4. "Change their mind" the day before they are supposed to return and ask for part time, or not even come back at all, thus screwing their employer out of the chance to train for and fill the position for 6-12 weeks 5. Justify the above behaviour by stating we have a right to stay home with our children if we want to/we shouldn't be punished because we have a uterus And then get all twisted out of shape when there is a bias against working mothers... ummm yeah, right Keep drinking the cool aid. Wow. Where did all that come from?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2013 18:13:04 GMT -5
While I understand and agree with El Capitan, I also agree that everyone (including companies) is looking out for #1. If companies can toss out loyal employees like garbage when the going gets a little tough, employees need to do what is in their best interests.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 26, 2013 18:25:58 GMT -5
While I understand and agree with El Capitan, I also agree that everyone (including companies) is looking out for #1. If companies can toss out loyal employees like garbage when the going gets a little tough, employees need to do what is in their best interests. I wouldn't totally disagree with her either. But, it didn't seem like anyone here was really pushing that position nor applauding it. So why the really confrontational style post where she is accusing others of applauding mom's that act like that & accusing others of drinking the kool aid?
Either I completely missed something or the Captain has some serious issues with working moms.
I have to agree with Rukh here:
You brewed that concoction - you drink it!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2013 18:30:47 GMT -5
She does seem a bit confrontational about this....
IMO workplaces give some leeway to moms because they are individuals who bring value and perspective to the workplace (and yea, because they are legally obligated). But even so, it still comes down to who is putting the work in - regardless of the reason for absence.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 26, 2013 18:43:01 GMT -5
Wasn't that the point of the article? That the FMLA doesn't go far enough, because if you haven't been there a year, or if you work for a small company, you aren't guaranteed the protection? [/span]
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