Does Evil Exist?

[femmefatale]

Dec 27, 2012 20:55:34 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Maybe I'd agree more if we used another word for it...like someone having an out of sync vibration or lacking harmony? Someone who causes disruption by going against the flow?

you say tomato ..I say tomahto...evil, meanness, nastiness, corruptive, brutal, heinous...any word you wanna use. Evil exists. ;D

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2012 20:55:34 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Maybe I'd agree more if we used another word for it...like someone having an out of sync vibration or lacking harmony? Someone who causes disruption by going against the flow?

Disruption by going against the flow does not really mean evil does it?
Can't it in some cases it be good to cause disruption by going against the flow?
vibration? harmony? Different thread from evil.

[Deleted]

Agreed.

[Deleted]

So abducting ,murdering and dismembering an innocent child would just be a "bad vibe" day? There are very terrible crimes against humanity. How do you account for those?

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 27, 2012 21:00:30 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

What is the most evil deed you can think of?

Various acts of sadism.

It's one of the reasons why I can't comprehend the public interest in 'torture films' like 'Saw'. Even a few minutes of the trailers make me sick to my stomach. I can't imagine watching it as a form of entertainment.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2012 19:38:19 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Animals are instinctual creatures, with no capacity for higher reasoning or moral judgment. Nor are they subject to any spiritual law.

Hence: No. Animals cannot commit evil.

ETA: Except snow leopards.

Hehe, you and your snow leopards. Thank you for the response, Virgil.

I had in mind something similar myself, however some people think that our ethical impulses are gifted us by evolution -meaning that moral judgement cannot be used to distinguish us from said instinctive creatures. I'm not certain about this myself, but it is sufficient to muddy the waters, for me.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2012 21:09:45 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 27, 2012 21:00:30 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

What is the most evil deed you can think of?

Various acts of sadism.

It's one of the reasons why I can't comprehend the public interest in 'torture films' like 'Saw'. Even a few minutes of the trailers make me sick to my stomach. I can't imagine watching it as a form of entertainment.

Yes, it is pretty sick is it not? I can't imagine watching stuff like that "for fun" either.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Dec 27, 2012 20:12:17 GMT -5 @femmefatale said:

I consider "evil" an act of someone "intentionally" doing something malicious or mean, on purpose and knowing fully what they are doing. That is what I consdider "evil".....

I also think it's (maybe not) evil, but malicious - to use someone only to get what you want from them, and then turn your back on that person once you have it.

[Deleted]

But if it isn't evil why would it "disgust" anyone unless there is at least some underlying notion of wrongdoing?

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

So because I find hunting disgusting and wrongdoing, should it be considered evil?

It isn't disgusting or wrongdoing to those who hunt for food and actually use the animal for what it was hunted for.

It's no differerent than you buying a steak at the market. That meat came from an animal that was slaughtered to feed you.

[Virgil Showlion]

I had in mind something similar myself, however some people think that our ethical impulses are gifted us by evolution -meaning that moral judgement cannot be used to distinguish us from said instinctive creatures.

That's a theory evolutionists espouse because they have no other reasonable alternative to explain it.

Where a Christian might conclude, "Man has a spirit—a capacity for morality, creativity, understanding, art, science, and dozens of faculties vastly beyond any animal—it is God's will that man should have this spirit in him.", an evolutionist would conclude, "The capacity for ... etc., etc. must be evolutionarily beneficial since man has evolved as a species and man exhibits these capacities."

That is, what we're observing now "must be" the inevitable result of some evolutionary process, and our goal is to conform (bludgeon, in many cases) the theory into explaining why things are as they are.

Some... 'enlightened' ... theorists posit that morality is solely and exclusively governed by lower-brain biochemistry—chemicals such as oxytocin—going so far as to claim that "morality" is nothing more than man's attempts to rationalize the effects of these chemicals in our brains. I suppose it would be funny rather than sad, were they not on the payrolls of major universities.

But... as they say... when all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

[Virgil Showlion]

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

He carved a round dowel out of the base of the square peg so it would fit into the round hole.

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 27, 2012 21:56:17 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

He carved a round dowel out of the base of the square peg so it would fit into the round hole.

I originally posted this image in a thread discussing a supposition by a pop psychology magazine writer (Dr. Kanazawa, I believe) that because consuming alcohol is an evolutionarily novel behaviour, drinking must correlate positively with intelligence.

And it turns out that if you use data from 1986 and cut off the high end of the range, you do get a weakly positive correlation between drinking and intelligence. Thus, theory proved.

The EEers were understandably ecstatic.

[Jaguar]

Dec 27, 2012 21:09:45 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 27, 2012 21:00:30 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

What is the most evil deed you can think of?

Various acts of sadism.

It's one of the reasons why I can't comprehend the public interest in 'torture films' like 'Saw'. Even a few minutes of the trailers make me sick to my stomach. I can't imagine watching it as a form of entertainment.

I'm the exact same, I stay away from all these type films.

[Deleted]

That's a theory evolutionists espouse because they have no other reasonable alternative to explain it.

Hehe, well you might be correct, but do be careful with those heavy stones in that flimsy-looking glasshouse there, Mr. "God magic'd it all with His word…" ;D

Where a Christian might conclude, "Man has a spirit—a capacity for morality, creativity, understanding, art, science, and dozens of faculties vastly beyond any animal—it is God's will that man should have this spirit in him.", an evolutionist would conclude, "The capacity for ... etc., etc. must be evolutionarily beneficial since man has evolved as a species and man exhibits these capacities."

That is, what we're observing now "must be" the inevitable result of some evolutionary process, and our goal is to conform (bludgeon, in many cases) the theory into explaining why things are as they are.

Some... 'enlightened' ... theorists posit that morality is solely and exclusively governed by lower-brain biochemistry—chemicals such as oxytocin—going so far as to claim that "morality" is nothing more than man's attempts to rationalize the effects of these chemicals in our brains. I suppose it would be funny rather than sad, were they not on the payrolls of major universities.

But... as they say... when all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

Sure. I'm not convinced by either view, though I would like to think that we were more than just biological machines, so religious answers often appeal for that reason; they speak to something on the inside.

[Deleted]

There is interesting research in psychology concerning moral standards. It appears that the human brain (mind) is set up to learn moral behavior as defined by the group just as we are predisposed to learning language grammar, what is art, music, etc.
No god required. Just evolution.

[Virgil Showlion]

Mr. "God magic'd it all with His word…" ;D

Yeah, but we call it "faith". Openly. We admit that.

"Evolution magic'd morality out of the primordial ooze." putatively doesn't require a heapin' helpin' of faith.

It's really too bad it didn't also magic'd a slightly more useful or actionable explanation out of the ooze along with morality.

[Jaguar]

Virgil didn't you eat crumbly cheese at Christmas ?

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2012 22:33:44 GMT -5 Jaguar said:

Virgil didn't you eat crumbly cheese at Christmas ?

I thought he was a Christmas fruit cake sorta guy?

[Green Eyed Lady]

Murky, murky, murky.

Nothing murky about it. There is but one Judge and it ain't you or me.

[mmhmm]

Dec 27, 2012 22:26:19 GMT -5 @joey said:

There is interesting research in psychology concerning moral standards. It appears that the human brain (mind) is set up to learn moral behavior as defined by the group just as we are predisposed to learning language grammar, what is art, music, etc.
No god required. Just evolution.

And a heapin' helpin' of empathy.

[mrsdutt]

Dec 27, 2012 21:00:51 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Dec 27, 2012 20:55:34 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Maybe I'd agree more if we used another word for it...like someone having an out of sync vibration or lacking harmony? Someone who causes disruption by going against the flow?

Disruption by going against the flow does not really mean evil does it?
Can't it in some cases it be good to cause disruption by going against the flow?
vibration? harmony? Different thread from evil.

Why does everything have to be sugar coated these days? Evil is evil, sin is sin and ice cream is ice cream. Pretty words don't change what the truth is. Pretty words turns the truth into a lie.

[mrsdutt]

Dec 27, 2012 21:29:57 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Dec 27, 2012 21:13:06 GMT -5 @shooby said:

But if it isn't evil why would it "disgust" anyone unless there is at least some underlying notion of wrongdoing?

So because I find hunting disgusting and wrongdoing, should it be considered evil?

Would you consider it disgusting if it were your only food source?

[Reckless Roselia]

Dec 27, 2012 21:00:30 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

What is the most evil deed you can think of?

The most horrific thing that makes your blood boil upon hearing it.

[Reckless Roselia]

Dec 27, 2012 21:09:45 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 27, 2012 21:00:30 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

What is the most evil deed you can think of?

Various acts of sadism.

It's one of the reasons why I can't comprehend the public interest in 'torture films' like 'Saw'. Even a few minutes of the trailers make me sick to my stomach. I can't imagine watching it as a form of entertainment.

Well, horror movies are entertaining but Saw has to be the first horror movie that gave me a complete blackout.

[Reckless Roselia]

Dec 27, 2012 19:38:19 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Let's have a show of hands, my people: Are other animals capable of evil?… or is it just humans?

Animals are instinctual creatures, with no capacity for higher reasoning or moral judgment. Nor are they subject to any spiritual law.

Hence: No. Animals cannot commit evil.

ETA: Except snow leopards.

I find a female spider gobbling up her mate after their love-making quite 'evil'. Well, it's not something that you'd expect right?

Humans are animals too.

[Reckless Roselia]

drinking must correlate positively with intelligence.

O Really?! Got the PMCC on ya for the statement above?

[beags]

Why doesn't it surprise me that certain people always get their threads moved or locked?

I guess I'll have to go back and see what stupid reason caused it this time . . other than the fact that they are not in the correct circle.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2012 7:36:43 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

Dec 27, 2012 19:38:19 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Animals are instinctual creatures, with no capacity for higher reasoning or moral judgment. Nor are they subject to any spiritual law.

Hence: No. Animals cannot commit evil.

ETA: Except snow leopards.

I find a female spider gobbling up her mate after their love-making quite 'evil'. Well, it's not something that you'd expect right?

Humans are animals too.

Humans are animals, but MORE than animals. So while an animal doing that is their natural behavior we do not say that of human beings. Human beings have the capacity for "evil" whereas animals can cause natural destruction and natural evils in a sense they are not capable of moral evils.