sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Dec 17, 2012 14:45:55 GMT -5
I think it's part funding, part access and part awareness.
Funding- I have health insurance and can afford my husband's medications but when we were laid off with no insurance it was a struggle to pay for his medications. COBRA would have cost us $1300 a month and his meds out of pocket were $850. Let me tell you- finding the money to pay for $850 a month in medications when both of you are on unemployment with a mortgage and a car payment was not easy. We prioritized because we understood the importance of his medications but I can see where some people would see that as the first thing to cut.
Access- I couldn't tell you where to go in my county for mental health help. I know that anytime my ex SIL is depressed she goes to the ER and claims she tried to kill herself so they lock her up for 72 hours and then send her home. There is no follow up care for her.
Awareness- I think mental health is the dirty little secret that people don't like to talk about and like to sweep under the rug. Look at this kid that did the shooting on Friday. Everyone they interview says he was "troubled" or had "issues" but no one ever did anything about it or tried to encourage the parents to get him help (to the best of my knowledge)
At my son's junior high they were split up on trails so half the grade was on one trail and half on the other. Each trail had their own core teachers- Math, Science, English, Social Studies. Both trails shared a PE teacher, communications, art, tech ed, FACS, etc. Twice a week every week the teachers on the trails would have a sit down meeting and discuss any problems or concerns they had regarding any students or any good things they noticed that they wanted to share. If they thought a kid seemed to not have any friends they would bring it up at the meeting and try to find a way to resolve it. If a kid was struggling or really excelling they would discuss it. The goal was to have all of the teachers on the same page and try to make sure no kid feel through the cracks.
I know this because his homeroom teacher (and science teacher) called me to tell me that a teacher was concerned because DS didn't visit as much in class as some of the other kids. DS is a serious student and when he was done with his work he would do homework for another class or read a book instead of talking to the kids around him. Mr. F told the teachers that DS interacted with the kids in Knowledge Bowl fine and that he always had a group of kids he ate lunch with. They wanted my take to make sure I didn't have any concerns regarding him. We talked to DS turns out A. he didn't care for the kids sitting near him (Jocks) and that B. he was really enjoying the book he was reading at the time.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 17, 2012 14:46:15 GMT -5
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Dec 17, 2012 14:50:50 GMT -5
Add that to the people who say guns aren't the problem. To the people who say most mental health people aren't the problem. To the people who say shit happens.
It seems a lot of people either A) Want to pick apart every suggestion made to help stem this problem without offering any other solutions and/or B) Ignore the problems altogether and do nothing.
And I don't just mean this board, but on a national level too.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Dec 17, 2012 14:54:44 GMT -5
I know nothing about mental health delivery systems. And I can't take political action on either side of the gun control issue. What am I suppose to do?
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 17, 2012 14:55:52 GMT -5
Wrong - the kid displays several signs of sociopathy, or at least a behaviour disorder very similar: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SociopathyAgreed he is undiagnosed and I'm not a doctor, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... He isn't diagnosed. Supposedly - they have no idea what he has - but the hallmark of sociopathy is not feeling any empathy or sympathy for others - I didn't see that. I also question whether the case is actually real however. Other hallmarks of sociopathy is charm, manipulation, and a total focus on having your desires meet without any concern for others. At least to my read, he displayed those traits. As far as the case being real, you may recall I've mentioned doing extensive research into adopting an older child including visiting several forums. The situation described by that woman mirrors many horror stories that adoptive parents described of the kids they adopted but were never notified of severe behavioural issues. I have every reason to believe it is real having heard it (or similiar stories) on several adoption forums. Google "Child sets home on fire" if you don't think children like this exist.
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ihearyou2
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Post by ihearyou2 on Dec 17, 2012 14:55:53 GMT -5
Add that to the people who say guns aren't the problem. To the people who say most mental health people aren't the problem. To the people who say shit happens. It seems a lot of people either A) Want to pick apart every suggestion made to help stem this problem without offering any other solutions and/or B) Ignore the problems altogether and do nothing. And I don't just mean this board, but on a national level too. You could be an editor of a newspaper picking and choosing which sections from a posters comments you want to read and making conclusions, well done!
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Dec 17, 2012 14:57:27 GMT -5
KGB- people like to look like they care without having to do more than share a post on fb. I had probably a dozen "friends" like or share some long quote attributed to Morgan Freeman this weekend. He was basically blaming the media for this tragedies for glorifying the gunman by talking about him so much. Turns out Morgan Freeman has never commented on what happened on Friday. It was quote from an article someone else wrote and someone thought it'd funny to attached Morgan Freeman's name to it. But everyone of those people re-posted and shared as though by doing so it would help keep such a thing from ever happening again. Willing to be only a fraction of those that re-posted will ever even find out that it wasn't Morgan Freeman that said that.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Dec 17, 2012 14:58:08 GMT -5
IMVHO, not every mass murderer is mentally ill. Some people are simply predators. As a society we can try to analyze why to make ourselves feel better, but sometimes there is no why. Some people are simply evil.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Dec 17, 2012 15:00:29 GMT -5
What?
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 17, 2012 15:01:02 GMT -5
IMVHO, not every mass murderer is mentally ill. Some people are simply predators. As a society we can try to analyze why to make ourselves feel better, but sometimes there is no why. Some people are simply evil. I know nothing about how they determine mental illness after a crime. But the murderer in Finland??. who killed all the children at a camp, on an island, was not mentally ill.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Dec 17, 2012 15:02:34 GMT -5
SK, I keep thinking about that book - We need to talk about Kevin....I just can't get it out of my head.....
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Dec 17, 2012 15:09:09 GMT -5
I agree with Ava. Unless we want to turn the country into a police state and abolish basic rights like innocent until proven guilty, there's not much we can do.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Dec 17, 2012 15:11:08 GMT -5
In 2010 there was a school shooting in Ontario. In 2009 there was a school shooting in Germany - 16 dead. In 2008 there was a school shooting in Finland - 10 dead. In 2011 there was a school shooting in Brazil - 13 dead. To name a few. The list goes on. It might "seem" that the news only applies to us. But if you can prove it, I will listen. We were looking for another place where these happenings happened more than ONCE. You providing us with data everyone already saw and remembers.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 17, 2012 15:11:20 GMT -5
Funding is an issue in Pennsylvania. Most of the state hospitals for the mentally ill have been closed because of lack of funding. Funding and oversight is a problem in Milwaukee. I have no clue on the rest of my state. There was a really interesting interview, I think in the Washington Post, with the Congressman who wrote/lead the Legislature Committee that changed the rules. He's got a homeless son with a mental disease. And he admits they shut the doors on institutions and didn't check to make sure anyone else was able to pick up the slack. And he regrets it now. I see if I can find it.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Dec 17, 2012 15:19:39 GMT -5
SK, I keep thinking about that book - We need to talk about Kevin....I just can't get it out of my head..... That's so funny....I was just thinking about that book too. I don't know if that essay is true or not, but I cannot believe a mother would allow her younger children to grow up in fear of being slaughtered by their older brother. Escape route to a locked car? Are you kidding me??? That's worse than someone letting a child rapist live their home. CPS absolutely should be involved there.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Dec 17, 2012 15:19:55 GMT -5
There is blame on a lot of things here. Everyone is searching to make sense of something that will never make any sense. Someone must be blamed. This is classic grief. You can't just say "Oh well, shit happens" because people will think you are ridiculous. But, unfortunately, shit happens. We can't prevent it. We can't prevent all auto-accident deaths. We can't detect every heart defect. We can't determine who is going to snap. People will always die. It will always be sad. There will always be victims. It will alway be senseless and horrible and totally worthless. It will always be devastating. Both atheists and faithful people can't just shrug it off. They will always search for answers, and want to point fingers, and lay blame and improve something so it won't happen again. But it will. Well said, and I agree 100%. I'm sure it seems callous and I may be a heartless monster, but shit happens, people kill each other. Some mentally ill people are going to snap and kill other people. There's really nothing we can do to prevent it or explain it. It's human nature. Everyone needs to stop finding something to blame. As I said, unless we want to cease living in a free society, stuff like this is going to continue to happen.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Dec 17, 2012 15:26:55 GMT -5
There is blame on a lot of things here. Everyone is searching to make sense of something that will never make any sense. Someone must be blamed. This is classic grief. You can't just say "Oh well, shit happens" because people will think you are ridiculous. But, unfortunately, shit happens. We can't prevent it. We can't prevent all auto-accident deaths. We can't detect every heart defect. We can't determine who is going to snap. People will always die. It will always be sad. There will always be victims. It will alway be senseless and horrible and totally worthless. It will always be devastating. Both atheists and faithful people can't just shrug it off. They will always search for answers, and want to point fingers, and lay blame and improve something so it won't happen again. But it will. Well said, and I agree 100%. I'm sure it seems callous and I may be a heartless monster, but shit happens, people kill each other. Some mentally ill people are going to snap and kill other people. There's really nothing we can do to prevent it or explain it. It's human nature. Everyone needs to stop finding something to blame. As I said, unless we want to cease living in a free society, stuff like this is going to continue to happen. Why here all the time? Out of all not-so-free places? Why?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Dec 17, 2012 15:28:48 GMT -5
Thyme is on the ball. It's not just the U.S that's dealing with violence. Remember the genocide attempt in Rowanda? And I don't recall the details, but wasn't there a mass shooting in Norway this year at a park?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 17, 2012 15:29:09 GMT -5
We were looking for another place where these happenings happened more than ONCE. You providing us with data everyone already saw and remembers.
Great Britain has had several school shootings over the last few decades. If you take a look at the list that was posted earlier on this thread, several of those mass shootings took place in Finland.
One thing to consider, those of us in the US get a skewed perception of what happens elsewhere in the world. If it happens in the US, it gets headline news. If it happens in another country, unless the killing is of a significant number of people, then many times it escapes the US news media.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 17, 2012 15:30:54 GMT -5
SK, I keep thinking about that book - We need to talk about Kevin....I just can't get it out of my head..... That's so funny....I was just thinking about that book too. I don't know if that essay is true or not, but I cannot believe a mother would allow her younger children to grow up in fear of being slaughtered by their older brother. Escape route to a locked car? Are you kidding me??? That's worse than someone letting a child rapist live their home. CPS absolutely should be involved there. What do you want her to do? She has one child who isn't bad enough to get committed and two other children. Does anyone remember the case of the boy who murdered a little boy selling candy or something door to door? The parents literally brought the boy to court before it happened and told a judge that their 14 year old was going to kill someone. He told the parents they looked like great people and that he would not commit the boy but was requiring them to take him back home with them. In the judge's defense the entire state has less than 20 inpatient beds for peds mental hospital patients.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Dec 17, 2012 15:36:04 GMT -5
Here's what I was thinking about. On July 22 2011 a gunman in a home made police uniform opened fire at a youth camp and killed 69 people. Was it in the U.S? Nope, Norway of all places. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 17, 2012 15:38:49 GMT -5
Here's what I was thinking about. On July 22 2011 a gunman in a home made police uniform opened fire at a youth camp and killed 69 people. Was it in the U.S? Nope, Norway of all places. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks I listed the link mass shootings for the past 50 years and it was in there. The list also had the 2 in Finland. There was no other country that had 2. The only other country with more than 1 mass shooting was the US.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Dec 17, 2012 15:39:18 GMT -5
Fixed.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Dec 17, 2012 15:43:59 GMT -5
There is blame on a lot of things here. Everyone is searching to make sense of something that will never make any sense. Someone must be blamed. This is classic grief. You can't just say "Oh well, shit happens" because people will think you are ridiculous. But, unfortunately, shit happens. We can't prevent it. We can't prevent all auto-accident deaths. We can't detect every heart defect. We can't determine who is going to snap. People will always die. It will always be sad. There will always be victims. It will always be senseless and horrible and totally worthless. It will always be devastating. Both atheists and faithful people can't just shrug it off. They will always search for answers, and want to point fingers, and lay blame and improve something so it won't happen again. But it will. Unfortunately this is so true. People want to make themselves feel safer but there is just no way to do that no matter how many laws are in place. Somebody who is crazy enough will find a way to do something horrific. And I agree with the poster that found it odd that the mother had the weapons in her home knowing her son was having issues but I wonder if she felt she needed them to protect herself from HIM. How ironic and sad would that be since it was used on her. This whole scenario is just sad, horrific, terrible... and I'm not sure anything they could have done would have changed what this kid did. Some people are just inherently evil. And he had no record or documentation of past deeds so even if there was a way to put him away - there is always that first incident. Unfortunately (that we know at this time) this was the first time he's done something horrible. How do you second guess what he was thinking? You'd have to be crazy too to even think of killing innocent children/people who had nothing to do with you. How do you second guess something like that to prevent it?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 17, 2012 15:44:33 GMT -5
Look, my ex is a sociopath but is too self involved to harm anyone because his beautiful self would then be in trouble or dead. Sociopaths don't always kill with weapons. They can make you want to kill yourself, though.
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