Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 8:59:04 GMT -5
"What would you do if a bunch of lazy, irresponsible, resource-sucking, self-entitled pissants who pay only a fraction of the tax you do came to you demanding a larger share of your hard-earned profits, "or else"? How receptive would you be to their demands?" About as receptive as the American electorate was to demands by the repubs that there be not only no tax increases for the top 1%, but that they actually get another tax cut, disguised as "eliminating loopholes." Those folks who pay a fraction of the taxes of the CEO's are only getting a fraction of the wages; does that make them any more "resource sucking"? But, to answer your question, I would hire good workers and pay them good wages and make a good profit, and quit crying about a 4% increase in the tax on my increased profit. But that would be logical, instead of emotional, so I understand your angst. by all means, please do go start your own business put YOUR capital to work deal with all the local, state, and federal red tape make yourself and your family a decent living..... maybe...just maybe you will see what some of us are saying
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 9:05:29 GMT -5
you guys think that business owners will just capitulate...say ok...pay the extra and move on
it isnt going to happen
worked for too many of them.....
greed is what makes these people go.....trying to figure out how to get another nickels worth of profit out of their store/business
that isnt going to change because a slight majority of americans want it to.....
one way or the other, you will pay the extra....mark my words
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 16, 2012 9:12:56 GMT -5
Karma, SF. This is a great argument-ender. What a great way to illustrate what anyone with a tenth of one brain cell left already knows: We don't have an "under-taxed" issue in America (unless you count the 47% who pay no taxes- and btw, I don't care if that's retirees and military included in there- you live here, you pay a minimum $1 a year- you pay *something*); we have a "spends too much" issue. And the bulk of the problem lies with entitlements. As a famous person once noted, no nation has ever taxed itself into prosperity.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 16, 2012 9:14:56 GMT -5
Greed is what drives people to believe they can vote themselves something for nothing.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 9:17:03 GMT -5
you guys think that business owners will just capitulate...say ok...pay the extra and move on it isnt going to happen worked for too many of them..... greed is what makes these people go.....trying to figure out how to get another nickels worth of profit out of their store/business that isnt going to change because a slight majority of americans want it to..... one way or the other, you will pay the extra....mark my words Agreed, business has no choice but to pass on the costs to the consumer. If they don't, or it prices them out of their market, they will no longer exist. To think people wonder why so many products are produced overseas at the loss of US jobs.
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Nov 16, 2012 9:21:15 GMT -5
You seem to be missing the point that the employee layoffs occur for two reasons: 1. Corporate profits are remitted to shareholders. A drop in profits sparks a significant drop in share prices, which typically necessitates that a business shore up its pool of liquid capital and take measures to restore profitability in the short term. Laying off employees is one of the surest and easiest ways of accomplishing this. It may impact future growth, but the near-term takes priority. 2. Employee layoffs are a tool for extortion. Or more accurately, for counter-extortion. What much of America sees as "fair share", the wealthy see as confiscatory taxation, and they will not sit idly by while men they hold in contempt siphon off their profits. Layoffs, market crashes, outsourcing, etc. can all be used as bitter public reminders on who holds the strings to America's economic infrastructure. I for one believe that if a "tax the rich" policy is aggressive enough, many business will cut off their nose to spite their face and resist the precedent. Put yourself in their mindset: What would you do if a bunch of lazy, irresponsible, resource-sucking, self-entitled pissants who pay only a fraction of the tax you do came to you demanding a larger share of your hard-earned profits, "or else"? How receptive would you be to their demands? More nonsence. Everyone will have to contribute to paying off our deficits. The SuperRich have been sucking the money out of the middle class for 30 years. To equate laziness to most of the american middle class is rediculous. The Top 1% contribution to our debt problem will be paying 2 or 3% more taxes. 95% of the companies that hire people in this country are not in the top 1% and are private companies that dont have shareholders. Lonewolf is clueless and just repeats what she hears on Television.
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Nov 16, 2012 9:27:46 GMT -5
you guys think that business owners will just capitulate...say ok...pay the extra and move on it isnt going to happen worked for too many of them..... greed is what makes these people go.....trying to figure out how to get another nickels worth of profit out of their store/business that isnt going to change because a slight majority of Americans want it to..... one way or the other, you will pay the extra....mark my words Ive owned and worked for small business' all my life. Its amazing to me that most of the folks on this board just repeat what they here rich people say on TV. If these people really did just pass on higher tax rates to the consumer they wouldn't be trying to do everything in their power to stop this. But that's not the case. They do have to absorb the hire tax rates. When our local school tax increases, as it does every few years we absorb that cost. We try and create new product or increase our market share to make up for it. WE DO NOT RAISE OUR PRICES because that gives our competitors an edge. We have been brainwashed by the rich folks on TV over the last few decades.
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Nov 16, 2012 9:32:37 GMT -5
Asking the top 1% to pay an extra 3% in taxes isn't soaking them.
The middle class is going to have to work an extra 2 or 3 years in the future for there SS.
Benefits are going to get cut for the poor. Everyone is going to have to give up a Little.
For Americans to defend the people who have made a fortune over the last decade or so not to have to do anything about the problem we are in is mind boggling. Especially since they are the one most responsible for it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 9:47:31 GMT -5
you guys think that business owners will just capitulate...say ok...pay the extra and move on it isnt going to happen worked for too many of them..... greed is what makes these people go.....trying to figure out how to get another nickels worth of profit out of their store/business that isnt going to change because a slight majority of Americans want it to..... one way or the other, you will pay the extra....mark my words Ive owned and worked for small business' all my life. Its amazing to me that most of the folks on this board just repeat what they here rich people say on TV. If these people really did just pass on higher tax rates to the consumer they wouldn't be trying to do everything in their power to stop this. But that's not the case. They do have to absorb the hire tax rates. When our local school tax increases, as it does every few years we absorb that cost. We try and create new product or increase our market share to make up for it. WE DO NOT RAISE OUR PRICES because that gives our competitors an edge. We have been brainwashed by the rich folks on TV over the last few decades. you owned business'es....great....bet they were small....and why owned? not own as in current? your mindset gives me the answer.....you didnt try to raise prices because of the competition? what kind of business? what kind of margins? how many employees? and i have not been "brainwashed" as you say I live and breathe business daily.....i work for a very successful business as the 2nd in command.....and have had that role or similar for over 20 years now.....and these guys dont worry about the competition they crave profitability.....just as an addict craves his fix.....if you dont have that in you....you may run a business, but it wont be at the top of the food chain i speak from experience on what is....not what some may want changing the mindset of these people....well lets just say i rather try to tame a lion with a flyswatter
|
|
Driftr
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 10, 2011 13:08:15 GMT -5
Posts: 3,478
|
Post by Driftr on Nov 16, 2012 9:48:04 GMT -5
FWIW - While listening to NPR on the way home last night, President Obama's recent comments were being re-broadcast and he was talking about taxes increasing for the top 2%, not 1%.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 9:50:38 GMT -5
FWIW - While listening to NPR on the way home last night, President Obama's recent comments were being re-broadcast and he was talking about taxes increasing for the top 2%, not 1%. it will be top 5% before long and then top 10% and then top 25% more taxes...more spending....and the same old shit
|
|
Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
Senior Associate
Viva La Revolucion!
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 12,758
|
Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Nov 16, 2012 9:51:15 GMT -5
|
|
Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
Senior Associate
Viva La Revolucion!
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 12,758
|
Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Nov 16, 2012 9:52:26 GMT -5
BTW G, great points!!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 9:56:07 GMT -5
BTW G, great points!! thanks man miss the days on MT with the gang....but PM can be a decent place to hang once in a while
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 9:57:32 GMT -5
If these people really did just pass on higher tax rates to the consumer they wouldn't be trying to do everything in their power Our family's business sells a good product and the price is high. Why? Because we continue to pass on the government costs to the customer. MW goes up, we raise prices. Taxes go up, we raise prices. Gas or electricity goes up, we raise prices. Many businesses selling the same product have come into our area and undercut our prices. They didn't survive. Why? Because they couldn't make a profit. exactly not what you sell something for....it is how much you KEEP
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Nov 16, 2012 9:58:55 GMT -5
Lonewolf...so you think most of the American Middle Class is lazy and wants everything for free??
Up until the early 1980's much of a companies profits went back into the company in the form of Pension contributions....maybe company cars for some of the middle management, health benefits etc.
After the early 1980's everything has been geared towards profits at the expense of everything else.
Now employee pensions is a bad phrase.
So most works started 401k's ect.
So the average American worker doesn't have a pension any more. They will depend on SS and more importantly their 401k. Most of which is in the stock market.
So as the baby boomers are in there prime earning years through the 1980's and 1990's the market booms.
As the first baby boomers start to retire in 2008 what happens??
The market collapses. Half the money is gone in a matter of months. Half of what the middle class has been saving for 25 years gone.
Where did it go? Who profited?? These are the questions we should be asking.
Not villainising the folks who have lost so much. Not calling them lazy.
AND sure as hell not calling the people who STOLE the middle classes money hard working.
You have a lot to learn Lonewolf.
|
|
Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
Senior Associate
Viva La Revolucion!
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 12,758
|
Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Nov 16, 2012 10:02:28 GMT -5
BTW G, great points!! thanks man miss the days on MT with the gang....but PM can be a decent place to hang once in a while I hear ya! Have a great day!
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Nov 16, 2012 10:02:58 GMT -5
Believe me A I am not a fan of Obama care.
My point is the constant defending of the super rich.
Where we are today has much more to do with what the top 1% have done to us over the last few decades not the government.
If we as Republicans had looked out a little more for the middle class and not the top 1% over the last few years We would not have lost the last two elections.
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Nov 16, 2012 10:05:31 GMT -5
If these people really did just pass on higher tax rates to the consumer they wouldn't be trying to do everything in their power Our family's business sells a good product and the price is high. Why? Because we continue to pass on the government costs to the customer. MW goes up, we raise prices. Taxes go up, we raise prices. Gas or electricity goes up, we raise prices. Many businesses selling the same product have come into our area and undercut our prices. They didn't survive. Why? Because they couldn't make a profit. Nonsence. If they had the same product as you at a cheaper price they would have more market share.
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Nov 16, 2012 10:07:51 GMT -5
Asking the top 1% to pay an extra 3% in taxes isn't soaking them. Let's add 3% to what you pay and see how loud you squeal. Either through higher taxes or inflation we will be paying more. The less the top pays the more we will. Someone has to pay for the 16 Trillion in debt.
|
|
sgtjer
Familiar Member
Joined: Feb 17, 2012 15:56:38 GMT -5
Posts: 629
|
Post by sgtjer on Nov 16, 2012 16:06:28 GMT -5
Based on the uproar we're hearing, I can only assume that employers hired more staff and lowered their prices when they got their tax rates lowered a decade ago. And that they will do the reverse now that their taxes are going up.
Does that summarize what has happened with the business owners on this thread?
And is that reflected nationally in lower prices and higher employment?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 16:15:59 GMT -5
Based on the uproar we're hearing, I can only assume that employers hired more staff and lowered their prices when they got their tax rates lowered a decade ago. And that they will do the reverse now that their taxes are going up. Does that summarize what has happened with the business owners on this thread? And is that reflected nationally in lower prices and higher employment? nice try when rates are lower, it makes taking risk more appealling when rates are higher, the risk/reward calculation changes for some, this will make no difference for others, they will not risk their capital, because the reward for doing so is less example below.....which would YOU choose you elect to buy a bond that pays 20% per annum, but there is a 25% chance that the company will go belly up in the next 3 years or you elect to buy a 10% yield bond, but it only has a 3% chance the company will have issues in the same 3 yrs some on this board will choose a....some will choose b same exact thing with opening a business and looking at ALL the numbers
|
|
sgtjer
Familiar Member
Joined: Feb 17, 2012 15:56:38 GMT -5
Posts: 629
|
Post by sgtjer on Nov 16, 2012 16:18:42 GMT -5
"nice try"
Nice avoiding the question .....
Did your company hire more workers and lower prices when they got their tax cut?
If not, why complain so loudly about taxes going back to the former level?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 16:36:52 GMT -5
i think you have a reading comprehension problem
i was not complaining about the tax itself
i said the owners would not be eating the tax
their generosity only goes so far....so they will raise prices or cut expenses to make up the difference
they will NOT just pay the tax and be quiet as some on here are wishing
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 16:38:41 GMT -5
the other posts are about people who may want to start a business
and what their risk/reward need is to put their capital at risk
if you think taxes is not part of the equation you are not thinking clearly
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 16:40:55 GMT -5
"What I want to know is why so many middle class people go to bat for these greedy pigs." Marketing works ..... especially if you throw in a picture of some minorities, or gays, or Nancy Pelosi. Look at reply #41 people actually believe they have a shot at that type of success, and maybe if they take their side they will soon be in such company....never going to happen. and this represents the dems side perfectly already a failure without ever trying wonderful..... lets just blame bush some more
|
|
sgtjer
Familiar Member
Joined: Feb 17, 2012 15:56:38 GMT -5
Posts: 629
|
Post by sgtjer on Nov 16, 2012 16:43:15 GMT -5
"their generosity only goes so far....so they will raise prices or cut expenses to make up the difference"
What difference? If they did not lower prices or hire staff when their taxes went down, what are they losing when their taxes go back to where they were?
Their profit will revert to where it was in the beginning.
Of course they can pass the tax increase on to their customers, but to blame that on the increased tax is ignoring the original tax decrease.
Mebbe it's your reading comprehension that is failing?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 16:52:45 GMT -5
do you pay your bills with this weeks pay, or what you were paid 10 years ago
do you KNOW anyone that uses 10 year ago numbers to figure what is happening now?
cmon now man.....use your head for more than a hat rack
|
|
sgtjer
Familiar Member
Joined: Feb 17, 2012 15:56:38 GMT -5
Posts: 629
|
Post by sgtjer on Nov 16, 2012 17:01:41 GMT -5
So, let me get this straight:
It's legit to complain over increased taxes on business owners now, even though the profit margin is the same, while at the same time, the middle class consumers have to make do with less? And we're supposed to sympathize with the whining of those employers?
They've taken nowhere near the hit that the middle class has taken, but diminished expectations are only for those not in the top 1%?
That's a mindset that doesn't resonate well with the electorate in general, and is unlikely to get political traction in years to come.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 1, 2024 17:27:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 17:13:20 GMT -5
So, let me get this straight: It's legit to complain over increased taxes on business owners now, even though the profit margin is the same, while at the same time, the middle class consumers have to make do with less? And we're supposed to sympathize with the whining of those employers? They've taken nowhere near the hit that the middle class has taken, but diminished expectations are only for those not in the top 1%? That's a mindset that doesn't resonate well with the electorate in general, and is unlikely to get political traction in years to come. look...i know the rich are greedy i have worked for a number of them over the years you all seem to think that we dont understand....where we understand perfectly what you are saying but be it right or wrong....they will not lower their standard of living so that a walmart worker gets more they are generous to the charities they support, and the one i work for is very generous to his employees but....those are his CHOICES....not mandated by someone else the bottom line is...whatever the rich pay more in taxes will be made up somehow, so that their standard of living doesnt change thru expense reductions, or price adjustments up and both of those will come back on the middle class....
|
|