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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 14:25:38 GMT -5
Please give a reference to the Law that states a coworker cannot yell or be mean to you. (Not in any way excusing this behaviour, just pointing out that one incident of yelling isn't going to move the legal meter... let's tone down the drama.) I would assume that slamming her hand down on her desk and throwing something might be considered assault. Assault, at least in my state, would need to on a person. You might have a case for battery, because she was being threatening, but since you did not report it to the cops, I doubt it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 14:30:30 GMT -5
Well, sad as that is, it would solve wrongside's fear of being physically harmed. As long as she doesn't try and take other with her. Odd how it's always the men who do that. Have you ever known a woman to go Postal and shoot others? I wonder why. There have been psychological research on why men are more likely then women, and I can send you some abstracts if you would like. However, women do "go postal", it is just less often then men.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 26, 2012 14:37:03 GMT -5
OK, so more detail on what was thrown and in what direction would help.
It's a big deal if she hurled something at you trying to do harm, less of a big deal if she threw the work product back into the basket to be finished.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 26, 2012 14:37:12 GMT -5
You might have that backwards... generally assault = creating fear of an imminent attack; battery = the attack itself.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Oct 26, 2012 14:41:25 GMT -5
Does anybody remember Amy Bishop?
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 26, 2012 14:46:34 GMT -5
BTW, I'll go ahead and admit my first job out of college was with one of the top tier international consulting/accounting firms and the example of a boss throwing a stapler at your head was drawn from a personal memory. The stapler thrower would often get so angry a little vein in his head would throb like it was going to burst and he'd yell profanity at the top of his lungs at people, but he was one of the top partners and is still very successful and prominent in the Phoenix area and never actually physically touched anyone, so that's why I'm not yet at the point where I'm willing to believe that some yelling = need to fear for your life. Thyme probably has met the guy I'm talking about or at least read about him in the paper.
Again - not that I'm defending crazy behaviour, just saying there's no need to overreact. HR appears to be handling it. See what they do before escalating or letting your fear spin you into a tizzy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 14:57:54 GMT -5
You might have that backwards... generally assault = creating fear of an imminent attack; battery = the attack itself. Sorry, I did.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2012 15:21:59 GMT -5
If the rumor is true, HR is trying to get her removed. Not to sound like Paul - but I called this way back - maybe page 1, where I said I bet they would send her to a mental health facility and she would come back, okay for a while and then she would return to her old self. So, now that we find out that may have already happened, I can surmise that HR is watching her, and documenting everything trying to prove that she is unfit for work. She will be gone before the end of the school year.
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kent
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Post by kent on Oct 26, 2012 15:53:29 GMT -5
I have seen her act unstable over the years and I have always felt it wouldn't take much to push her over the edge. Last year around this time she disappeared for a semester. There was a rumor that she was forced to take time off and she was supposed to be getting help for whatever is wrong with her. Her behavior has been getting worse and lately she has been paranoid. On Monday, my coworker was standing out in the hall talking to a professor that is a friend of his. Out of nowhere, crazy lady came barreling down the hall and grabbed his arm. She shouted "I hear you! I know you are keeping a lookout for the class. I know the rest of them of are in there talking about me." My coworker said "I'm not in your class and I'm not keeping a lookout. I'm talking to Prof. xxx about something personal." Crazy lady didn't say anything. She just walked away and went into her classroom. I know people use the term "crazy" loosely, but something is very wrong with this lady. Aha, illuminating information. After reading this, it doesn't sound like it's just an anger management situation. She's apparently got a screw loose and it need of some serious professional help of a psychiatric nature. Perhaps HR can "guide" her to Employee Assistance (EA) for some help. If, and I do mean if, the rumor you heard is true then HR is probably already on top of her repeat performance issues but will not, under any circumstance reveal what happened last year or what is in progess right now so you'll have to deal with the unknown. It's not uncommon for HR to make an EA referral and it often comes about as part of a "counseling session" related to her behavior on the job - OK professor, you're really causing problems in the workplace and several people are becoming very concerned (behavior/incident examples provided of course). Accordingly, we expect you to seek some help. If you refuse to do so, we will be faced with considering whether or not your continued employment is in the best interest of all concerned. This approach seems to work well with most people, particularly those with an alcohol or drug problem. The bad news is that you can't force them to get help and that's why you need to hold the "If you don't" hammer over their head.
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p8nt
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Post by p8nt on Oct 27, 2012 16:50:56 GMT -5
Am I the only one who lives in a world where people have emotions? Do you people all live in Stepford where nobody yells and everyone acts perfect all the time? And now yelling is a crime? WTF??!! I've been yelled at more times in job interviews than I have on the job. All of the workplaces I've been in had people who respected each other enough not to be that particular brand of childish. In 25 years of working, I have never been yelled at on the job by a CW. If that were ever to occur, I would be unemployed. I don't treat people disrespectfully and I don't expect to be treated that way.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Oct 27, 2012 17:27:14 GMT -5
Sadly, if the angry lady has clinical paranoia, she may resist treatment. The distrust involved in the disease often causes the patient to suspect the medical professionals who are trying to help. It is a difficult disease to treat. I had a colleague who was overcome by her paranoia and lost her security clearance and eventually her job because she refused to acknowledge that she was ill. To her, the scenarios she wove around tiny, unrelated incidents that had nothing to do with her evolved into an enormous conspiracy by everyone she worked with to spy on her and lie about her and ruin her reputation. None of it was true, but she could not be convinced that what she believed was not true. She did not have anger issues, though, and before she became completely unhinged, she was well liked. The person under the illness was a caring, generous, talented person. Sadly, she turned on everyone and alienated even her closest friends.
I hope the OP's crazy co-worker can be persuaded to accept treatment or at least be removed from the workplace without incident.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2012 18:37:32 GMT -5
"Am I the only one who lives in a world where people have emotions? Do you people all live in Stepford where nobody yells and everyone acts perfect all the time? And now yelling is a crime? WTF??!!"
Emotions are fine but when it crosses to bullying, creating a hostile/uncomfortable work environment for others, it doesn't have to be tolerated. People don't even have to tolerate this type of behavior from their family, why do you think it is so normal for a coworker to treat another coworker this way? I agree that at this point there is no reason to involve the cops but this is far from acceptable behavior at the workplace.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 27, 2012 19:02:09 GMT -5
Holy shit. No wonder everyone needs to raise taxes. If every person puts in a police report every time someone at works yells at them - how are they ever going to get around to fighting crime. So, now we expect them to be the "nice" police. Am I the only one who lives in a world where people have emotions? Do you people all live in Stepford where nobody yells and everyone acts perfect all the time? And now yelling is a crime? WTF??!!
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 27, 2012 19:18:08 GMT -5
Hi Thyme, I don't see why you're disturbed because employees might take measures because they don't want to be yelled at and intimidated ( bullied ) by other employees. Anyone who comes to my desk, yells at me, throws stuff around, and then later *returns* after having been reported, and acts *worse*, has a real problem, and is good at bullying people.
I have lived long enough to determine that there is a certain level of static and/or shit that I'll tolerate from others, and then al bets are off. If I am required to treat all coworkers with politeness and caring and niceties even though I don't like really care to be around some of them, then I expect EXACTLY the same treatment from them.
If someone is that out of control in the office or workplace setting, then I have every right to protect myself from their bullying behavior. I believe that I wrote about how I was being bullied by another coder, and I was among many from our team that complained extensively about her actions to management. The manager asked me to keep an incident log, which I did. I recorded six or seven instances where she bullied me, and there were other incidents which I witnessed her bullying our fellow employees. She felt mighty free to do it, because her behavior patterns had never been held in check by management. The previous manager was her friend and had let her get away with murder.
I did not feel physically threatened by her until she got very agitated and did some things which were sort of menacing. However, she never threw anything, or picked up something as if she was going to throw it. This did happen to the OP. I discussed the situation with the new manager several times, and explained that if it continued, I might have to go to HR and/or discuss the situation with some authorities if she kept it up. That let management know that I was both unhappy and serious. I was calm throughout the discussion, plus managers had heard her yelling at people time and time again.
Luckily, I never had to take any further steps, because our new manager has been counseling her, and she is slowly returning to the once-laid back, humorous person that she used to be. End of story, for me.
The OP has very right to protect herself from this unwarrented and undeserved behavior to her by a higher-up. She handled it quite professionally, and it's being documented is an important step because it it expands, and she harmed financially by having to leave her workplace because of the nutbag, then it could prove important in a lawsuit against the employer and the harasser.
Just because you've been able to "yell" on your job doesn't mean that you would be able to get away with it forever. Quiet employees can be very good planners, and you might find yourself undermined or sued some day if you are really that out of control ( which I doubt that you are ). I just think that being firm but polite in the workplace is the best policy at all times.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Oct 27, 2012 19:35:53 GMT -5
I have always worked in a field where occasionally people snap at one another or get into a heated argument. There's a huge difference, IMHO, between yelling or having a less-than-perfect moment versus creating a hostile work atmosphere. I used to work with one guy who had serious anger management problems. Things ended when he tried to drag another employee who was half his size into the parking lot for a fight.
I don't think wrongside needs to call the police ... Yet. But I think she should be careful. How many times do we see people on the news who snap and do terrible things and after the fact people look back and see all kinds of signs that pointed to things going drastically wrong someday. Sadly, we live in a time when you can't be too careful.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Oct 27, 2012 19:53:09 GMT -5
I have only seen a co-worker get totally agitated at another co-worker one time. I thought he was going to jump across the table and belt the other guy. I grabbed him to stop him. The co-worker who had been verbally attacked and almost physically attacked did report the incident to his supervisor and the other co-worker had to explain situation to his supervisor. I was involved as a witness. I did not think the situation deserved the kind of anger that got expressed.
If somebody acted like they were going to throw a stapler at me, I'd be gone.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 27, 2012 20:30:35 GMT -5
I just want to offer extra encouragement to stay strong with what is happening right now. I'm not sure if I'd be able to handle this kind of situation.
As someone who was bullied a lot as a child, and who wishes more than anything that I'd stood up much more fiercely to it, I have the tendency to want to overcompensate now. When I think I'm being bullied, it makes me want to react above and beyond what is necessary to show the bully that messing with me is a REALLY bad idea. I don't like ceding ground to people like this, because quite frankly I've ceded enough ground and its much more work to get back than just hold it in the first place.
Good luck, and I hope your HR department goes to bat for you and everyone else who has been harassed by this person.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 28, 2012 18:05:49 GMT -5
I had a sheriff's deputy once tell me that a restraining order would do nothing to slow a bullet. We're probably all over reacting. This woman may just be having a PMS moment. Talk about a sexist comment....would you be making excuses of hormones if a man did this to her?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 29, 2012 11:14:49 GMT -5
That's why I'm armed. DFs ex gets a free pass because she's in counseling and on meds. She doesn't do more than drive by our house anymore because she now knows I am armed and have no issue with shooting her if she comes onto my property again.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 29, 2012 14:31:56 GMT -5
OK if Zib is packing heat, then I'm at least going to buy a sword or something! I'd name it "Imzadi".
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 29, 2012 14:36:33 GMT -5
Taking a gun into the office is prohibited by my company.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 29, 2012 14:42:59 GMT -5
You think she holds it sideways?
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 29, 2012 14:43:50 GMT -5
OK, I'm pretty sure we're all joking now, but just in case we're not.... If the OP were to suddenly start carrying a gun in response to what has been described, as an employer I'd fire both crazy lady and OP. Judgment, people, and a little moderation are not bad things.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 29, 2012 14:44:07 GMT -5
And what if its like, a Colt Python or something.
Now I'm thinking of that strange movie "Stop or My Mom will Shoot" where Estelle Getty buys an Uzi as a gift.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Oct 29, 2012 14:44:34 GMT -5
OK if Zib is packing heat, then I'm at least going to buy a sword or something! I'd name it "Imzadi". Love the name.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 29, 2012 15:50:16 GMT -5
I do, too. I actually got the permit so I could carry the gun to target practice without having to separate it. You don't need a permit to have it on your property. I've been hoping shed drive by while I was outside and I could do the Clint Eastwood thing of pointing my finger at her just like its a gun I'm holding. Love Gran Torino. I'd like her to think I'm crazier than she is, fight crazy with crazy, so to speak.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 30, 2012 13:30:48 GMT -5
Go ahead... make your bed! God rest Estelle...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 13:36:30 GMT -5
I'm scared of crazy people.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 30, 2012 13:37:19 GMT -5
OK, I'm pretty sure we're all joking now, but just in case we're not.... If the OP were to suddenly start carrying a gun in response to what has been described, as an employer I'd fire both crazy lady and OP. Judgment, people, and a little moderation are not bad things.
Really? If the OP got a legal concealed to carry license in her state in order to protect herself, how would you know?
More than one disgruntled employee has taken out their unhappiness on their coworkers. How would you plan on protecting the OP from this happening to her?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 30, 2012 13:38:42 GMT -5
So - wrongside is back at work today. Any update?
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