Cuomo: "New York State is functionally bankrupt"

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2011 13:14:52 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

So you're actually postulating that before the "social safety net" programs of the 1930s, the United States was a third world country???

You are replying to a poster who believes Hugo Chavez has transformed Venezuela into a paradise.

Oh, and where did you get this stupid ass idea?

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Oh, and where did you get this stupid ass idea?

Unless someone is posting under your ID here, this is what you posted in the thread I started.

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2011 13:23:41 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

Oh, and where did you get this stupid ass idea?

Unless someone is posting under your ID here, this is what you posted in the thread I started.

You started a thread about what some person you "met" through a website who claimed to be a female raised in another country although not now living in that country said her nephew said negative about that country. I simply pointed out that people who leave their country of origin rarely have anything nice to say about it. You have read a lot into that.

[workpublic]

you just blamed expatriots from venezuela(and all other places) as displaying sour grapes in the other thread. instead of the facts that they leave because it has turned into a shathole under communist rule.

[floridayankee]

Feb 3, 2011 11:35:00 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The idea that if we would only cut off welfare (in all its forms) and a light bulb will be lit in people's brains and they will be middle class model citizens is absurd.

As is maintaining the status quo of this failed war on poverty without considering alternative for assisting those truly in need.

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2011 13:53:29 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Feb 3, 2011 11:35:00 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The idea that if we would only cut off welfare (in all its forms) and a light bulb will be lit in people's brains and they will be middle class model citizens is absurd.

As is maintaining the status quo of this failed war on poverty without considering alternative for assisting those truly in need.

Can't argue with that. What alternatives do you wish us to consider?

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2011 13:43:23 GMT -5 workpublic said:

you just blamed expatriots from venezuela(and all other places) as displaying sour grapes in the other thread. instead of the facts that they leave because it has turned into a shathole under communist rule.

I pointed out that those who leave pretty consistently have nothing good to say about where they left. Makes them a poor source for proving a point. If I had listened to my current wife's ex instead of making my own observations, I would have missed out on a good thing. (Of course, if I had listened to my previous wife's ex, I would have saved myself a lot of heartache.)

[burnsattornincan]

The modern picture of "Third World" has come about as a result of the way the world developed in the past century and thus is not something that you can directly compare to pre-Thirties United States.

The way "our world" developed was by innovation, invention, risk taking and plain old hard work as opposed to sitting around in grass huts reproducing all day long or kneeling in front of some wall 5 hours a day praying. That is how the "Third World" came about.

Dalton McGuinty Burns III

[ed1066]

If we look at the US of the Twenties, moving into the Thirties, not have the programs put in place that were put in place during that era (e.g. Social Security, TVA, etc), and consider how this country would look today, I believe that it would look much like what we consider a "Third World" country today.

Oh I get it! This is Obama's old trick of "yes, unemployment is 12%, but it would have been 20% if I hadn't come to the rescue and bankrupted the next two generations"...got it!

[floridayankee]

Feb 3, 2011 14:06:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 3, 2011 13:53:29 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

As is maintaining the status quo of this failed war on poverty without considering alternative for assisting those truly in need.

Can't argue with that. What alternatives do you wish us to consider?

Ok...how about some sort of "sing for your supper" type of welfare system. There are plenty of places one could help out for their welfare checks. A few extra clerks during the busiest times at the DMV (ours has 8 "positions" but never more than three are ever open at a time) or the Post Office during the holidays would be nice. If you're not working, you're attending a vocational training program.

IMHO, we need a system that encourages people to transition out of welfare programs...not make welfare a living.

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2011 14:35:17 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

If we look at the US of the Twenties, moving into the Thirties, not have the programs put in place that were put in place during that era (e.g. Social Security, TVA, etc), and consider how this country would look today, I believe that it would look much like what we consider a "Third World" country today.

Oh I get it! This is Obama's old trick of "yes, unemployment is 12%, but it would have been 20% if I hadn't come to the rescue and bankrupted the next two generations"...got it!

Sorry, I disagree that you got it. Editing out the first part of my statement (without noting that you had of course) does help it seem you got it.

[floridayankee]

Feb 3, 2011 14:15:24 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I pointed out that those who leave pretty consistently have nothing good to say about where they left.

Never been to southern FL, eh? Lots of Cuban flags flying around here.

Makes them a poor source for proving a point.

I have to disagree. If I'm going to learn about something, I'd rather learn from somebody with first hand experience...whether that experience is negative or positive.

Now, if they're overly biased, disgruntled and/or bitter about their experiences, I might agree.

If I had listened to my current wife's ex instead of making my own observations, I would have missed out on a good thing.

Apples and oranges. Compatibility is totally different issue than someone leaving their home country for whatever reason.

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2011 15:13:23 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Feb 3, 2011 14:15:24 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I pointed out that those who leave pretty consistently have nothing good to say about where they left.

Never been to southern FL, eh? Lots of Cuban flags flying around here.

But what do they say of Cuba as it exists today?

I have to disagree. If I'm going to learn about something, I'd rather learn from somebody with first hand experience...whether that experience is negative or positive.

Now, if they're overly biased, disgruntled and/or bitter about their experiences, I might agree.

I am saying your caveat is usually true.

If I had listened to my current wife's ex instead of making my own observations, I would have missed out on a good thing.

Apples and oranges. Compatibility is totally different issue than someone leaving their home country for whatever reason.

Generally it is a lack of compatibility that makes them leave their country.

[floridayankee]

Feb 3, 2011 15:23:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 3, 2011 15:13:23 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Never been to southern FL, eh? Lots of Cuban flags flying around here.

But what do they say of Cuba as it exists today?

I have to disagree. If I'm going to learn about something, I'd rather learn from somebody with first hand experience...whether that experience is negative or positive.

Now, if they're overly biased, disgruntled and/or bitter about their experiences, I might agree.

I am saying your caveat is usually true.


Apples and oranges. Compatibility is totally different issue than someone leaving their home country for whatever reason.

Generally it is a lack of compatibility that makes them leave their country.

Ok...so by your logic, were most jews that fled Nazi Germany simply incompatible and disgruntled?

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2011 15:36:01 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Feb 3, 2011 15:23:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Ok...so by your logic, were most jews that fled Nazi Germany simply incompatible and disgruntled?

Their desire to continue to peacefully exist was incompatible with the Nazi's goals so they wisely fled. Not sure how "disgruntled" comes into play here. Independent analysis of the situation clearly shows that the situation in Nazi Germany was horrible.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

The Cubans are exiles. Political refugees. They didn't flee because they were "incompatible", but because a violent and murderous regime was asking them to surrender their property and their human rights, or die. Duh. Are we really having this discussion?

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2011 15:55:26 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

The Cubans are exiles. Political refugees. They didn't flee because they were "incompatible", but because a violent and murderous regime was asking them to surrender their property and their human rights, or die. Duh. Are we really having this discussion?

Yes we are. Others didn't flee. Why did some flee and others not? Some had a view of life that was compatible with the changes in Cuba. Others did not and left. So came to feel they were incompatible with what was happening and left later.

[floridayankee]

Feb 3, 2011 15:47:32 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 3, 2011 15:36:01 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Ok...so by your logic, were most jews that fled Nazi Germany simply incompatible and disgruntled?

Their desire to continue to peacefully exist was incompatible with the Nazi's goals so they wisely fled.

lol...I never heard it spun quite like that. So, they wanted to live. Does it mean they did not love their country? Are the opinions of the Nazi survivors and their descriptions of life in Nazi Germany now completely invalidated because they fled their country?

I think not...no more than this Venezuelan women that fled the oppressive Chavez regime.

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2011 16:14:22 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Feb 3, 2011 15:47:32 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Their desire to continue to peacefully exist was incompatible with the Nazi's goals so they wisely fled.

lol...I never heard it spun quite like that. So, they wanted to live. Does it mean they did not love their country? Are the opinions of the Nazi survivors and their descriptions of life in Nazi Germany now completely invalidated because they fled their country?

I think not...no more than this Venezuelan women that fled the oppressive Chavez regime.

You missed the part about independent analysis of the situation.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

I think not...no more than this Venezuelan women that fled the oppressive Chavez regime.


I am the poster who brought up this lady. She was not bitter, she was not disgruntled about Chavez. She was very sad that such a beautiful country has been destroyed. She has family living there.

[floridayankee]

Feb 3, 2011 16:11:09 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Yes we are. Others didn't flee. Why did some flee and others not?

Why do some people get out of bed on the left side and some on the right? Who the hell knows Bills. People deal with situations differently. Some fight. Some flee. Some roll over and piddle all over themselves. It doesn't mean any of them find the situation compatible or even palatable.

BTW...good job of completely derailing the thread from the OT.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

You missed the part about independent analysis of the situation.


You've missed the more important point of a nutcase dictator nationalizing all industries and driving the country into chaos with his socialist policies of wealth distribution.

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2011 16:19:45 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

I think not...no more than this Venezuelan women that fled the oppressive Chavez regime.


I am the poster who brought up this lady. She was not bitter, she was not disgruntled about Chavez. She was very sad that such a beautiful country has been destroyed. She has family living there.

And in the last presidential election in Venezuela, almost 63% of the people of that country voted for the Chavez regime. That six year term is up next year and the people will have a chance to again decide what they wish to have happen in their country.

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2011 16:21:07 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

BTW...good job of completely derailing the thread from the OT.

Wait a minute. Reply 28 took us here and I am not the one who posted it. #35 and #40 I responded to things that were more on track. My other comments are responses to what others have posted.

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2011 16:22:49 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

You missed the part about independent analysis of the situation.


You've missed the more important point of a nutcase dictator nationalizing all industries and driving the country into chaos with his socialist policies of wealth distribution.

Wrong. He is a duly elected nutcase who is "nationalizing all industries and driving the country into chaos with his socialist policies of wealth distribution."

The Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela held presidential elections on 3 December 2006, to choose a president for the six-year term to begin on 10 January 2007. With 98.29% of the polling stations counted, incumbent president Hugo Chávez was re-elected with 62.87% of the votes.[1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2006