Dems and the military service issue

[Deleted]

Unfortunately those who have never served, and especially never served in combat, are more likely to vote for military action,

What makes you say that? I would say someone that signed up for combat themselves is more likely to vote for military action. They have already shown an affinity for it.

[deziloooooo]

Oct 19, 2012 18:30:12 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Operating from the assumption that most Urban Legend -caliber interpretations of statistics must have their basis in fact or something at least remotely approximating reality, I spent a couple of minutes looking for narration on the demographics of the US military in Vietnam, and, so far, I've come up with one credible-seeming source which suggests something about the numbers during the middle years of the conflict versus the final tallies when it was all said and done...

From "The Oxford Companion to American Military History", 1999, Oxford UP, by David Coffee, as posted on the University of Illinois school website...

"...African Americans often did supply a disproportionate number of combat troops, a high percentage of whom had voluntarily enlisted. Although they made up less than 10 percent of American men in arms and about 13 percent of the U.S. population between 1961 and 1966, they accounted for almost 20 percent of all combat-related deaths in Vietnam during that period. In 1965 alone African Americans represented almost one-fourth of the Army's killed in action. In 1968 African Americans, who made up roughly 12 percent of Army and Marine total strengths, frequently contributed half the men in front-line combat units, especially in rifle squads and fire teams. Under heavy criticism, Army and Marine commanders worked to lessen black casualties after 1966, and by the end of the conflict, African American combat deaths amounted to approximately 12 percent—more in line with national population figures. Final casualty estimates do not support the assertion that African Americans suffered disproportionate losses in Vietnam, but this in no way diminishes the fact that they bore a heavy share of the fighting burden, especially early in the conflict..."

www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/s_z/stevens/africanamer.htm

Could it be, as this author seems to be suggesting, that Black KIA figures were grotesquely skewed towards sacrificing Blacks in large numbers during the early to middle years, but that the military - beginning to cook-down such numbers for themselves - made a large-scale and intentional and successful effort to reverse those figures and to align them more closely with the demographics of the national population by war's end?

If true - if that holds up under a closer scrutiny - then it would explain and reconcile both the stereotypical (Urban Legend -caliber) perception AND the Final Numbers...

Curiouser and curiouser...

Not getting into possible all the reasons of what is suggested in the above post...possible not having lived through or been of age to be affected by one might not realize the following.....there was a draft and there were exemptions..and one of the exemption was a college exemption..one going to school and staying in good graces with that school..up through graduate school..more Caucasian qualifying for that exemption then those of color might be one of those reason and if so, not so "curiouser and curiouser .."....

[deziloooooo]

Oct 19, 2012 17:11:26 GMT -5 vandalshandle said:

Frankly, I tend to respect people who were smart enough not to let the government throw them into the Vietnam meat grinder for no reason whatever. It was nothing but a politically motivated war which had absolutely nothing to do with protecting our freedom or fighting for our country. Am I the only one that finds it ironic that we lost the war, but now have Vietnam on our Favored Nation trading list?

Nice sound byte there..however...reality is, if you can remember your feelings after 9/11...how most craved action and getting payback..it was during the cold war..there was still a Soviet Union,..Red China..Iron Curtain, Berlin Wall..and the DOMINO Theory ..put out by some very talented people as well as taught about in our schools ..not hat long from the Korean War which wasn't that long from the end of War 2...

"I tend to respect people who were smart enough not to let the government throw them into the Vietnam meat grinder..."

as I said , good sound byte..and in hind site ..why not forecasting the melt down of the Dot Com Dow Jones too...

If you haven't lived it, it really is hard to give a honest dissuasion of the topic and if your suggesting not to step forward and raise your hand when called upon to do so or for some who went North over the border as the right thing to do...p0raising those types...suggest you don't have a clue..

I suggest put the blame on those who had control of things , the politicos and the professional Military who did not give our POTUS the correct answers when asked..would not accept that as we were fighting it it was non winnable and also with the casualties we were taking and the cost , to try and limit the way we fought it..and no not saying we would have had to go nuclear...those are the people one should blame..not the grunts who were called on to do the actual fighting...and finally , when known to be unwindable , we still stayed...

I believe when Johnson left office, our dead numbered about 25,000 or so ..when the thing was finally over..over 54,000 or so , yet Johnson seems to take all the blame...at times, to me, something does not compute ...just a thought.

With our new military, I can't conceive on the # of re deployments back to the theaters of war our current military have to endure...

to me that is unconscionable...I realize it is necessary..we just don't have enough troops now ..and one of the reasons are the smaller standing forces we have and will have in the future..but still the strain has to be hugh on the personnel IMHO..