deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Sept 23, 2012 2:34:11 GMT -5
I am giving the benefit of the doubt to the fact that the message board is a important well read one, not just on a local and national basis , in fact one that gets a large foreign readership and participation , actually surprisingly very large from the Middle East .
Since many feel we are in some sort of conflict with our Muslim neighbors , bordering on actual war in the minds of many, or segments of them any way , through out the world I would not publish. I would be in touch with the correct agencies of the government , asking their advice and most likely doing what they want on this situation.
When one is at war, just because one may be a civilian, if one is a citizen of the country at war, then one should have to conform to the same standards of patriotism and security that those serving citizens are in in relations to war security...
For those who are preaching that one should not give in to bullies..if we are really considering Virgil's question as a serious one and wish to be serious participants in this topic... then a serious answer would take into consideration that we are citizens of the world, some real serious stuff is going down in the world, that not all of our citizens who are out of country are just on vacations but also serving to defend us, are there doing business which is beneficial to our country's financial well being..and anything to make it more safe and a better financial climate would be a good thing and the opposite if it was causing problems which it seems the publishing of this information would do. That there are certain rights that are lost in a war situation is also a fact and good citizens understand that and for those who don't want to conform, then the State has a right to enforce what they feel is the correct security measures..if necessary.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Sept 23, 2012 5:06:41 GMT -5
I would print it...... and invite those of other opinions to make a sensible response. We can never be in a sitution where a certain faction dictates what we can and cannot belive in...... because of fear. What Muslim countries have to accept, is that the majority of earths population does not believe in their prophet... and they have every right not to believe and voice their opinion. They cannot dictate to others what ideas we are be exposed to......A relatively few Imans do not have the power to force their views onto others.....they do not hold the moral compass for the world....... and should never be given the idea that they do. They should be given the right of reply, of course. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) A sensible and reasoned debate should ensue......and it doesnt include violence.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 23, 2012 6:49:21 GMT -5
What Muslim countries have to accept, is that the majority of earths population does not believe in their prophet... and they have every right not to believe and voice their opinion. What they have to accept is that even if they where the majority and only a few people didn't believe in there prophet, those people have a right to voice there opinion without fear of physical harm. I think a better question would be if you ran an entertainment venue of some kind (tv station, magazine, web portal) and one of your major contributors wanted to put out something making fun of Mohamad would you? And you have made fun of jesus and practically everything else in the past.
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Reckless Roselia
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Post by Reckless Roselia on Sept 23, 2012 7:15:21 GMT -5
I wouldn't print it. I guess that makes me a sell-out. But for what little benefit the article would yield, I wouldn't want to bear the repercussions on my conscience. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) I'm not sure what I would do. Probably print it. But I would think about publishing anything that can incite hatred and trouble. Also I do think the Muslims should leave certain things and matters to God as how other religious followers tend to do. I'm sure God can protect the Prophet's name if He wanted to. He didn't so there may be a reason as to why not.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 23, 2012 8:10:10 GMT -5
I'd double down. These people don't forgive. They don't forget. You're better off keeping a high profile and sticking to your principles than kow-towing. In fact, my real opinion of stuff like that I can't post, but suffice it to say it involves flipping the script, and no- women and children would not be exempt. The way you deal with hard core is to fight fire with fire.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2012 8:23:35 GMT -5
I would invite the counterpoint article and publish them simultaneously.
If you have an editor, you are looking at freedom of the press not freedom of speech. Freedom of speech says crackpots get to say whatever half-baked theory they want. Freedom of the press of about the public's right to the truth. And the primary criticism against the current media is they don't present both sides of an issue (except for when there is broad consensus about one side of an issue, when they have a tendency to inflate the importance of some crackpot in in the interest of "fairness")
The news should be better than that. If you think the journalist is 100% right, you publish the article with an editor's not explaining why you did. If you think the article raises an important controversy, you present both sides of the controversy.
Freedom of the press is worth fighting for. Crackpots are also worth fighting for, just not under the banner of news.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 23, 2012 8:23:57 GMT -5
... Also I do think the Muslims should leave certain things and matters to God as how other religious followers tend to do. I'm sure God can protect the Prophet's name if He wanted to. He didn't so there may be a reason as to why not. This one is {unfortunately IM(not so)HO} easily answered by, "It is a test for us to prove our devotion".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2012 8:24:14 GMT -5
I see "bullying" as more unsolicited. This concerns an act of provocation. That would be the main difference. "Provocation" is an excuse that bullies and thugs use to engage in bullying. If there was no thuggery and bullying and fear of retaliation then there were would be no fear of provocation leading to a problem. Correct?
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Sept 23, 2012 8:55:29 GMT -5
Given the parameters, I wouldn't print it right now but would reassess in a year. I think the larger and better question is, what do we / can we do to desensitize the problem? Personally, and it is sort of tongue in cheek, but the term "flooding" comes to mind.
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Tired Tess
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I'm so ready to wrap it up.
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Post by Tired Tess on Sept 23, 2012 9:38:38 GMT -5
Message deleted by mmhmm. This thread isn't about whether anyone was married, or not. Please stay somewhere near the topic. Thanks.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 23, 2012 9:39:54 GMT -5
Message deleted by mmhmm. Quoted a post that has been deleted.
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Reckless Roselia
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Post by Reckless Roselia on Sept 23, 2012 9:43:08 GMT -5
Given the parameters, I wouldn't print it right now but would reassess in a year. I think the larger and better question is, what do we / can we do to desensitize the problem? Personally, and it is sort of tongue in cheek, but the term "flooding" comes to mind. ![](http://forums.clubrsx.com/images/smilies/yeahthat.gif) I voted for that option too. ... Also I do think the Muslims should leave certain things and matters to God as how other religious followers tend to do. I'm sure God can protect the Prophet's name if He wanted to. He didn't so there may be a reason as to why not. This one is {unfortunately IM(not so)HO} easily answered by, "It is a test for us to prove our devotion". I can see where you are coming from but it's something that is taught to the Muslim community that important matters are left to God. That God is the Judge. It's even in the Quran.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Sept 23, 2012 9:45:33 GMT -5
"What I'm looking forward to is living in FL near the ocean, having friends stay over, getting blind drunk and listening to good music. Retirement can't come fast enough. Oh, yea, a "stupid" part-time job. I need a reason to get out of bed."
That's awesome! I hope it happens for you if that is your wish.
Me and my bum knee are going to hobble out to the yard and try to do something constructive. Wish me luck.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 23, 2012 9:46:38 GMT -5
... it's something that is taught to the Muslim community ... Yeah, and turn the other cheek is taught to the Christian community. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif)
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Tired Tess
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I'm so ready to wrap it up.
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Post by Tired Tess on Sept 23, 2012 9:55:42 GMT -5
Post the article. OTHER articles and opinions get posted. Let the readers know where the new information comes from and let them make up their own minds. But be careful of the proofreaders. If they don't like what they read they very well may delete.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 23, 2012 10:39:19 GMT -5
There's also a fine line between exercising one's rights and asking for trouble.
Suppose Big Brutus is a classmate of yours and it's a known fact that his mother is a prostitute.
A few weeks ago, you were humming "Pretty Woman" (innocently, in this case) while sitting in class next to him. He perceived it as your thinly-veiled attempt to insult him, and warned you not to hum it while near him or he'd pound you.
You don't particularly care about the song "Pretty Woman", but it certainly isn't hurting Brutus. Moreover, you have the right to hum it when and where you please.
On the other hand, you're quite positive that Brutus can pound you. Should the matter escalate, Brutus has a long memory, a lot of time on his hands, and very little to lose.
Hence, do you a) bravely confront the bully and assert your rights, bearing the consequences thereof, or b) accept that discretion is the greater part of valour, pick your battles, and avoid aggravating Brutus?
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 23, 2012 10:41:26 GMT -5
*chuckle* Nothing like taking the hypothetical "other guy" out of the picture, Virgil. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 23, 2012 10:48:05 GMT -5
There's also a fine line between exercising one's rights and asking for trouble. Suppose Big Brutus is a classmate of yours and it's a known fact that his mother is a prostitute. A few weeks ago, you were humming "Pretty Woman" (innocently, in this case) while sitting in class next to him. He perceived it as your thinly-veiled attempt to insult him, and warned you not to hum it while near him or he'd pound you. You don't particularly care about the song "Pretty Woman", but it certainly isn't hurting Brutus. Moreover, you have the right to hum it when and where you please. On the other hand, you're quite positive that Brutus can pound you. Should the matter escalate, Brutus has a long memory, a lot of time on his hands, and very little to lose. Hence, do you a) bravely confront the bully and assert your rights, bearing the consequences thereof, or b) accept that discretion is the greater part of valour, pick your battles, and avoid aggravating Brutus? maybe you do it to get the bully thrown out of class
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 23, 2012 10:50:13 GMT -5
*chuckle* Nothing like taking the hypothetical "other guy" out of the picture, Virgil. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) If you want to look at it that way, change Brutus' claim to "Don't hum that song around me again or I'll pound you and your little brother who works at the five n' dine." The problem with this scenario is that we would have to posit that there is no greater authority (such as police, etc.) to prevent Brutus from making good on his claim. Or we would have to posit that you know Brutus is a loose cannon and has no concern at all for the legal repercussions of his acts. In short, it complicates the hypothetical. I'm specifically looking for Shooby's "let sleeping dogs lie" line.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 23, 2012 10:55:48 GMT -5
I agree with you, Virgil. I've just found it interesting that turning a hypothetical argument toward the personal (using "you" instead of "they" and "yours" instead of "theirs") often changes the direction of discussions. At the very least, it will give people another angle from which to view the subject.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 23, 2012 11:02:05 GMT -5
There's also a fine line between exercising one's rights and asking for trouble. Suppose Big Brutus is a classmate of yours and it's a known fact that his mother is a prostitute. A few weeks ago, you were humming "Pretty Woman" (innocently, in this case) while sitting in class next to him. He perceived it as your thinly-veiled attempt to insult him, and warned you not to hum it while near him or he'd pound you. You don't particularly care about the song "Pretty Woman", but it certainly isn't hurting Brutus. Moreover, you have the right to hum it when and where you please. On the other hand, you're quite positive that Brutus can pound you. Should the matter escalate, Brutus has a long memory, a lot of time on his hands, and very little to lose. Hence, do you a) bravely confront the bully and assert your rights, bearing the consequences thereof, or b) accept that discretion is the greater part of valour, pick your battles, and avoid aggravating Brutus? maybe you do it to get the bully thrown out of class In what way is Big Brutus being a "bully"? He felt that you were attacking him. He simply responded to that perceived attack. If it were truly an innocent act, you should simply move on.
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wyouser
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Post by wyouser on Sept 24, 2012 16:49:11 GMT -5
print the article. (although, I suppose ,if I were Julius Caesar and we were discussing "big Brutus" there might be cause for concern....et tu brut? Just make sure you have a Marc Antony about to track down the bloody assassins)
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 24, 2012 18:08:10 GMT -5
maybe you do it to get the bully thrown out of class In what way is Big Brutus being a "bully"? He felt that you were attacking him. He simply responded to that perceived attack. If it were truly an innocent act, you should simply move on. I don't know,probably because he is threatening to pound me.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 24, 2012 21:05:52 GMT -5
In what way is Big Brutus being a "bully"? He felt that you were attacking him. He simply responded to that perceived attack. If it were truly an innocent act, you should simply move on. I don't know,probably because he is threatening to pound me. Based on his belief that you are picking on him. Self-defense is not bullying.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 24, 2012 21:53:34 GMT -5
I don't know,probably because he is threatening to pound me. Based on his belief that you are picking on him. Self-defense is not bullying. So this is self defense, sure didn't sound like it from the OP, sounds like someone who resorts to physical violence to stop something that they find objectionable even though it was specifically stated as being allowed by the OP. Sounds like a bully or terrorist, using threat of violence to get what they want.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 24, 2012 23:45:16 GMT -5
Based on his belief that you are picking on him. Self-defense is not bullying. So this is self defense, sure didn't sound like it from the OP, sounds like someone who resorts to physical violence to stop something that they find objectionable even though it was specifically stated as being allowed by the OP. Sounds like a bully or terrorist, using threat of violence to get what they want. If a little girl says, "I am going to scratch your eyes out if you don't stop singing about puppies" after her puppy dies, is she being a bully or terrorist? Is she wrong to threaten violence? Sure. But is she being a bully or terrorist? I don't think so.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Sept 24, 2012 23:57:06 GMT -5
I'm with Oped. It doesn't sound like an article that SHOULD pass an editor that adheres to the principles of journalistic integrity.
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Sept 28, 2012 1:38:25 GMT -5
What are we talking about here Virg, a cartoon, or say some evidence that points to Moe being a false profit?
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 28, 2012 8:19:07 GMT -5
So this is self defense, sure didn't sound like it from the OP, sounds like someone who resorts to physical violence to stop something that they find objectionable even though it was specifically stated as being allowed by the OP. Sounds like a bully or terrorist, using threat of violence to get what they want. If a little girl says, "I am going to scratch your eyes out if you don't stop singing about puppies" after her puppy dies, is she being a bully or terrorist? Is she wrong to threaten violence? Sure. But is she being a bully or terrorist? I don't think so. No because it is totally ineffectual and unrealistic to think she accomplish this task., however the bully in the OP was describe as being able to accomplish his task.
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