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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 17:26:30 GMT -5
af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE7151NF20110206?sp=trueTide turns in favour of Egypt's Brotherhood in revolt By Samia Nakhoul CAIRO (Reuters) - The first time Essam el-Erian, went to jail, he was 27. Last Sunday, he left prison for the eighth time at the age of 57. The medical doctor's crime for each incarceration was belonging to the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's most influential and best-organised Islamist opposition movement and long feared by President Hosni Mubarak, Israel and the United States. Egypt's courts have repeatedly rebuffed the Brotherhood's requests for recognition as a party on the grounds that the constitution bans parties based on religion. More.
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Feb 7, 2011 18:08:18 GMT -5
It looks as if Mubarak may outlast the protesters, but there is no indication that he'll be able to backtrack on the promises he made to them. It would probably be best if he stays until September as the military seems to desire. It is still not clear what's behind these demonstrations, that is; how they seem to be coordinated. Might be a good thing, might not.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 7, 2011 18:19:33 GMT -5
It looks as if Mubarak may outlast the protesters, but there is no indication that he'll be able to backtrack on the promises he made to them. It would probably be best if he stays until September as the military seems to desire. It is still not clear what's behind these demonstrations, that is; how they seem to be coordinated. Might be a good thing, might not. There was a suggestion offered by the government that he step down in June..claiming illness, protection for he and his family, possible to stay in Egypt, why else, if he left for exile,protection not needed, right, and a interim government to govern for five months, as they get all the pins lined up in a row. According to the Egyptian constitution only the President has the power to do things, he controls the political parties to run in elections, even the VP doesn't succeed him. Possible too, if they , ones to replace , might be asked to sign off on not going after his and his families wealth, estimated in the Billions. The low for Mubarak is at $25 Billion to $40 Billion, possible even to $75 Billion AND according to the laws written not illegal as how acquired. They are demonstarating in London in front of one of the homes known to be owned by a son, as I type Remember he has been in power for 32 years, total control so one can write laws to favor the ones in power making all things done legal from the legal stand point. A real gobble gook, especially if the military is supporting a orderly take over, a time of consolidation , persuading him to sign away his powes, am sure he would be negotiating all the way along," I give you this, I get that", instead of just jailing him and his immediate supporters which would also include the top military commanders, can't see themselves arresting themselves do you?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 1:22:20 GMT -5
Reality of what is happening in Egypt.
Secret police are arresting journalist..when questioned the PM , he said not attended. Same with local social services people, over 300 killed, have pictures of a unarmed man shot down in the street, the Military is trying to out last the protesters, possible another strong man in power, this is far from over and the secret police are back out there doing their thing..
Anti Mubarak forces staying in the the square, Suleiman is the front of the regime , a authoritative state, no talk of lifting the state of emergency that has been in power for thirty years...Mubarak is gradually stripped of powers but basically a new strong man in power.
We, our country , I am thinking they will go along with that , if the government seems to be holding on to power.
The people?..a new administration take care of it in two or ten years.
This is the most dangerous part of the uprising..protesters are known to the security forces, if they finally leave the square, pictures not as dramatic, world interest wanes which it would, if the square is given up,
Then the secret service moves in , and go after those who stood up to the regime, possible what the ones who will take over from Mubarak, are waiting for.
Mubarak is pretty much gone..
The regime , it will probably stay.
We, USA, probably go along with it. Reason status quo, Israeli security and a bullwork against the more extreme forms of Islam which we are paranoid about. Thus our answer to the average Egyprian , tough kid but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I am sure many Americans feel that way, freedom for the average folks, more concerned about the chance of a more conservative government.
If so, are we that hypicriticle.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 1:39:26 GMT -5
Al Jazeer article on the two day talks between the Government and the different groups protesting... demand for Mubarak to leave, the concessions offered, not really what the people demonstrating want to hear. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/20112764216497806.html-------------------------------------------------------- "Middle East Talks fail to end Egypt protests Pro-democracy protests continue at Tahrir Square, two days after government held talks with opposition to end turmoil. Last Modified: 08 Feb 2011 01:57 GMT Email ArticlePrint ArticleShare ArticleSend Feedback Pro-democracy protesters are continuing their sit-in in Cairo's Tahrir (Liberation) Square, showing no signs of being appeased by talks held two days earlier between the government and opposition groups. Demonstrators seeking the immediate ousting of Hosni Mubarak, the president, were still camped out in the square on Tuesday - as protests enter the fifteenth day in Egypt - while life was slowly getting back to normal in other parts of the Egyptian capital following a fortnight of turmoil" --------------------------------------------------------------------- ""We are in for the long haul. The regime is trying to play us against the people in Tahrir Square, but we always remind them they are our people, our families. "We are talking about freedom ... about lost rights for 30 years, ... about torture ... and I think people want radical change, not only minor reform." Meanwhile, an Al Jazeera online producer, reporting from the square, said relations between the protesters and the troops had been turning tense. On Sunday night, troops stationed near the National Museum briefly opened fire. Tensions also rose when soldiers attempted to reinforce a barbed wire fence, which the protesters resisted. Agitated protesters staged a sit-in and two of them were detained."
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 2:08:06 GMT -5
A good article of how the protesting groups should look on any negotiations with the regime in power who are negotiatiating with them , the regimes objective and who are they really in comparison to Mubark...they are the same. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/20112712938688835.html---------------------------------------------------------------------- "The Egyptian protest movement has, as a result of its own successes, reached a critical strategic moment in its development. In the light of its failure hitherto to defeat the movement, the Mubarak regime has now adopted the appearance of an eager negotiating party, receptive to the demands of the Egyptian people, and willing to talk to all the key parties in opposition. The selection of vice-president Suleiman to head this process has been warmly welcomed in the US and European capitals. While negotiations cannot be rejected in principle, and are always the preferred means of resolving complex political conflicts, the movement should assess whether the type of negotiations being offered will advance or hinder the cause of a free Egypt." " ----------------------------------------------------------------- {to continue the article click on the link}
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 12:20:25 GMT -5
HUH?? Muslim brotherhood threatening to QUIT talks IF... so-- must mean the somebody wants them there, or it would be an empty threat. I really do not understand this stuff. ...The Muslim Brotherhood, by far the best-organized opposition group, said on Monday it could quit negotiations if protesters' demands were not met, including the immediate exit of Mubarak... news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_egypt
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 12:31:22 GMT -5
Dez- check this out-- mandatory ARABIC in Texas schools?? WTF?? MANDATORY?? When I was a kid in TX we had mandatory Spanish, which was, of course, a very good thing for TX kids. ARABIC?? Geesh... dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/02/07/mandatory-arabic-classes-coming-to-mansfield/(Not political or important enough for a thread, but I figured I could sneak it in here without a problem.)
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 12:48:48 GMT -5
HUH?? Muslim brotherhood threatening to QUIT talks IF... so-- must mean the somebody wants them there, or it would be an empty threat. I really do not understand this stuff. ...The Muslim Brotherhood, by far the best-organized opposition group, said on Monday it could quit negotiations if protesters' demands were not met, including the immediate exit of Mubarak... news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_egypt I am getting the feeling that the Military is taking a stand. Will move Mubarak out slowly, taking away many of his decision making decisions, already happening, and setting the stage of a temporary leadership from them, as is now with the VP. Excuse being, not forcibly removing Mubarak, he is one of them, the senior Military leadership has profited from the arrangement, time needed to set up election processes, changes to the constitution to make all things done legal, but true change to the politics of Egypt probably not going to change much, just new leadership Their, military, idea is to wait out the protesters, get it down to the hard core, identified. It's happening as I type. The police and secret police then are back on the street , as I type, and picking up the hard core and since the Brother hood has not been super involved and have been a party under suspicion for years and leaders jailed and worse, seeing the hand writing on the wall, most likely the status quo coming back as it was with some variations, are distancing themselves from the "MOB" to save their organization from major roundups that they feel will be happening. The Young in the square might be aware of that but being inexperienced , if the revolution starts to sputter which it may, how do you battle a State that really doesn't want to change..but see no way out so are staung waitng for the inevitable. Muslem Brotherhood, they may just want to , and by with drawing starting the process, hunkering down as the storm hits them, hoping they will be spared the heavy round ups and consequences that are most likely to come, actually becoming even stronger as opposition leaders and people are rounded up, wait for the next time. The USA, possible wants the status quo from a foreign relationship standpoint..while a democratic Egypt sounds great and wonderful, it means the will of the people and if the people decide to go super conservative and want to be in conflict with Israel again, not necessary active War but as a non cooperative entity , one that is a antagonist to Israel. Supporting the Gaza Hamas party over the West bank PA, and Lebanon's Hezballah as in the past we would not be happy. Thus we might just hunker down, let the semi status quo come back with major control by the VP who we support and just mouth a few platitudes about the rights of the people, Democracy, human rights as we do with China..and accept with a sigh of relief what comes out of Egypt as a blessing in disguise.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 12:58:20 GMT -5
Dez- check this out-- mandatory ARABIC in Texas schools?? WTF?? MANDATORY?? When I was a kid in TX we had mandatory Spanish, which was, of course, a very good thing for TX kids. ARABIC?? Geesh... dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/02/07/mandatory-arabic-classes-coming-to-mansfield/(Not political or important enough for a thread, but I figured I could sneak it in here without a problem.) Anything that pertains to the Middle east, thats why I put it, thread together..those not interested, just ignore , but for those intersted and kept up to date on the happenings, not mucking up the board.. MANDATORY..your right WTF...I like the idea of being offered...but mandatory...TEXAS ?..LOL What can I say but actually if it also includes the history, culture of the area, people...as far as actually becoming fluent , as in all languages..but will get interest of a some to coontinue which is good and to get the ingormation out of such a hugh percentage of the world people, beyond the hysteria of the moment here in the US....hope you don't think all muslims , Arabs are our enemies..why not. Schools are about education and education is more then how to read and write...do math ...sex education.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 13:04:07 GMT -5
Mandatory, though-- weird. Spanish, yes-- if the kids want to compete in the job market in TX-- believe me, they had better know Spanish. My kids here in AZ are at a disadvantage ( no mandatory Spanish here) in the job market because many good jobs require Spanish. But, Arabic?? Geez........ I wonder if Spanish is still mandatory?
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Post by jarhead1976 on Feb 8, 2011 13:37:09 GMT -5
Yes my daughter was required to take 2 years of Spanish in high school.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 8, 2011 13:37:57 GMT -5
Mandatory, though-- weird. Spanish, yes-- if the kids want to compete in the job market in TX-- believe me, they had better know Spanish. My kids here in AZ are at a disadvantage ( no mandatory Spanish here) in the job market because many good jobs require Spanish. But, Arabic?? Geez........ I wonder if Spanish is still mandatory? Three years ago, some Texans were complaining about their children being forced to learn Spanish: www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329669,00.html I don't like the idea of forcing any student to learn one particular foreign language. I would prefer the students only be required to learn one or more foreign languages during their basic education school years. A few of these student will even go on to major in college with degrees in one or more foreign languages. Some darn good money can be made working as interpreters for international businesses and corporations and also working for the government.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 22:35:42 GMT -5
The beat still goes on in Egypt...for those who are following the going on ..there are so many things coming out and we are seeing that will be remembered forever in Egypt...Our Revelution had individuals, patriots, and their words that have stayed with us to this day and some are memorized and remembered by the young as they go through school. Nathan Hale , "I regret that i have only one life to give to my country" Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me Death "..John Hancocks hugh signature and so much more.. We go to Egypt this Tuesday..."Wael Ghinim"..a Google executive..jailed at the beginning of the protests on TV after he was released from Jail in tears lamenting the deaths of the ones who have died so far and then in tears said.." We Love Egypt ....and we have right"....from those words ...hundreds of thousands of Egyptians returned to the square....no leaders , just people asking for their rights....' Largest Turnout Tuesday in the 16 days of demonstrations ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110208/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_egypt----------------------------------------------------------------------- "With protests invigorated, Vice President Omar Suleiman issued a sharply worded warning, saying of the protests in Tahrir, "We can't bear this for a long time, and there must be an end to this crisis as soon as possible," in a sign of growing impatience with 16 days of mass demonstrations" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In Tahrir, the massive, shoulder-to-shoulder crowd's ranks swelled with new blood, including thousands of university professors and lawyers who marched in together as organizers worked to draw in professional unions. The crowd rivaled the biggest demonstration so far, a week ago, that drew a quarter-million people" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Suleiman rejected any departure for Mubarak or "end to the regime. He told a gathering of newspaper editors that the regime prefers to deal with the crisis using dialogue, adding, "We don't want to deal with Egyptian society with police tools." He warned that the alternative to dialogue was "a coup" — a possible hint of an imposition of military rule. However, editors present at the meeting said he then explained he didn't mean a military coup but that "a force that is unprepared for rule" could overturn state institutions" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- {To read the whole article click on the link }
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 8, 2011 22:44:57 GMT -5
It's a pretty amazing thing, Dez
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 8, 2011 22:53:17 GMT -5
A good article of how the protesting groups should look on any negotiations with the regime in power who are negotiatiating with them , the regimes objective and who are they really in comparison to Mubark...they are the same. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/20112712938688835.html---------------------------------------------------------------------- "The Egyptian protest movement has, as a result of its own successes, reached a critical strategic moment in its development. In the light of its failure hitherto to defeat the movement, the Mubarak regime has now adopted the appearance of an eager negotiating party, receptive to the demands of the Egyptian people, and willing to talk to all the key parties in opposition. The selection of vice-president Suleiman to head this process has been warmly welcomed in the US and European capitals. While negotiations cannot be rejected in principle, and are always the preferred means of resolving complex political conflicts, the movement should assess whether the type of negotiations being offered will advance or hinder the cause of a free Egypt. The regime cannot be both the cause of the current conflict and the facilitator of negotiations to ensure its resolution. At this point it would be prudent for those who have been captured by a sudden optimism around the negotiations to consider the nature of the Egyptian regime that protesters have been fighting to remove over the past two weeks. The political strategy to reduce the regime to the persona of Hosni Mubarak flies in the face of all the evidence of a regime (understood as a system of government, authorities, rule, authority, control, command, administration, leadership) that has ruled the country with the brutality for the last thirty years, banning opposition, arresting and torturing political dissidents and all but destroying critical media. The regime is not simply Mubarak, but a vast security network a ruling party that has appropriated much of the Egyptian economy and foreign aid, and a number of prominent political families. Crucially, it has been sustained by the political and material support of Western governments for the last thirty years. Negotiations headed by Suleiman are negotiations headed by Mubarak. It will have the clear intent of ensuring the survival of the Mubarak regime " ----------------------------------------------------------------- {to continue the article click on the link} Desi-in the future, please only post the first several paragraphs from an article found on the internet. No need to post the whole thing. Add the link to the end of the first two paragraphs. This is actually a violation of the CoC. Let the other posters decide if they wish to continue reading further. Tennesseer/Moderator
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Post by ed1066 on Feb 8, 2011 23:46:13 GMT -5
Well good luck to all of you pulling for the Muslim Brotherhood. I hope your dreams of Jewish genocide come true!!!
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 9, 2011 0:22:11 GMT -5
Well good luck to all of you pulling for the Muslim Brotherhood. I hope your dreams of Jewish genocide come true!!! Huh?
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 9, 2011 0:23:03 GMT -5
Ditto.
Huh?
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 9, 2011 0:23:42 GMT -5
Israel does not = the entire jewish ethnicity/culture, btw. Might want to stop confusing the two.
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Post by ed1066 on Feb 9, 2011 0:27:41 GMT -5
Oh, sorry, good luck to all of you pulling for the total destruction of the State of Israel...I know you like to make a distinction between that and the genocide it disguises...
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 9, 2011 0:36:48 GMT -5
Who said I want the destruction of the Israel? You're not allowed to put words in our mouths, Ed. It just makes your remarks seem bigoted.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 9, 2011 15:44:57 GMT -5
Latest and to me somewhat suprising..the revolt is still with us..that is not that surprising but now it seems the very poorest..8000 farmers have also joined the protest, that to me is surprising as there is so many poor in Egypt who need the few dollers a day they earn to survive on a day by day basis, they too are chanting , demonstrating for change. Yjey drove off a governor in one of the provinces by throwing rocks at his car, and the VP getting more and more upset saying this can't continue. Is he going to use the Military to crush the up rising. Protestors say if they are gone , 70 million Egyptions will rise up and take their place. remarkable events are being played out here. , Remember he is or was a top General just very recently in the Army, now will the rank and file of the military strike at tthose who's ranks the majority came from, their own parents and siblings. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110209/ap_on_bi_ge/ml_egypt------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "By MAGGIE MICHAEL and TAREK EL-TABLAWY, Associated Press Maggie Michael And Tarek El-tablawy, Associated Press – 1 hr 48 mins ago CAIRO – Thousands of state workers and impoverished Egyptians launched strikes and protests around the country on Wednesday over their economic woes as anti-government activists sought to expand their campaign to oust President Hosni Mubarak despite warnings from the vice president that protests won't be tolerated much longer. Some 8,000 protesters, mainly farmers, set barricades of flaming palm trees in the southern province of Assiut, blocking the main highway and railway to Cairo to complain of bread shortages. They then drove off the governor by pelting his van with stones. Hundreds of slum dwellers in the Suez Canal city of Port Said set fire to part of the governor's headquarters in anger over lack of housing." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- {Click on links to read rest of the article}
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Feb 9, 2011 15:49:50 GMT -5
Dianne Feinstein Warns Islamic Extremists Could Easily Take Over Egypt
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 9, 2011 15:55:48 GMT -5
In some ways what is happening in Egypt reminds me of the strikes in the ship yards of "Gdansk" in Poland for those old enough to remember that caused that government to eventually fall and the Iron curtain to come down.
Workers in transportation, those who work at factories , CoCa Cola for one , a textile plant for another, the water wirks workers even museum workers are demanding heads of departments to step down, better wages , this joining the mostly middle class who have been in the square..
Can they jail all these people?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 15:56:14 GMT -5
I am thinking the best thing may be to leave M in power, while having the VP be the speaker, until elections can oust them.. or keep them, whatever. Not our business, really. But-- letting some crazy in the heat of the moment take over does not seem like the thing to do. NO, I am not Egyptian, but I am concerned that they get the best they can get-- which will take time, and NOT just the best on the spot-- which is the MB-- the only organized group in place. They do not want that, seems to me, (I could be wrong), but deserve FAIR elections. They have had no chance to organize yet. Who the flip knows?? Maybe the Facebook guy is the new leader?? I have NO IDEA, but neither do they. This will take time. So, IMO, let the dictator stay for as long as it takes, get the country economy back on track, and let the people thoughtfully vote in the next election. JMO.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 9, 2011 16:02:58 GMT -5
"They have had no chance to organize yet. Who the flip knows?? Maybe the Facebook guy is the new leader?? I have NO IDEA, but neither do they. This will take time. So, IMO, let the dictator stay for as long as it takes, get the country economy back on track, and let the people thoughtfully vote in the next election. JMO. " -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So far they seem to want to have no one leader to be there..even the one from Google..what is happening politically behind the scenes as far as party's being formed, alliances being made , we don't know, O am sure things are being discussed ans worked on, but for know, they want Mubarak to step down, till then there seems to be little to discuss and possible that is the way it should be.
In time party's will arise and then search for members but for now, the goal is for Mubarak to be gone.
We still have not heard from the Military, which way they are going to go and who will finally be their leader and what their place in the new government, I believe there will be something new , will be.
Don't expect them to disappear to the back ground with no participation in the government ans a party of influence.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Feb 9, 2011 16:26:06 GMT -5
Obama vs Obama - statements on Iran and Egypt
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 9, 2011 16:48:05 GMT -5
Obama vs Obama - statements on Iran and Egypt Was able o play all the way through {phew} usually stops and stsars.. Two seperate places..one with no influence, in fact antaginistic relations with and a enemy who we feel is undermining our interests as well as allies interests, Israel, Europeon, Lenanon, Gaza, Egypt.. and most important , the Nuclear , if Iran gets them , then most likely other states in the area will look for them and many are our allies, friends. Egypt , a ally, going through a change, we give substantial aid, but have to be careful how we play that card. If we stopped it, there is great personal wealth involved here, alluded to but it's there, but even on the low side , hugh and able to hold off change for quite a while if $ mean anything. Asdking for orderly change, no violence, appealing to the military for restraint, we are able to do, final call will be up to the people, government , Hilitary, them selves. One place we have some influence, the other none except by force which includes sanctions , boycotts. President being Presidential, knows the reality of where he has influence where he doesn't, can't use the same paint brush in both places..what is your objection?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 18:15:52 GMT -5
Geez, b2r-- that is scary.
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