Religion and Science

[Jaguar]

Sept 9, 2012 19:04:43 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

I think Science and Religion cannot coexist IF a religion teaches that their guiding books are completely literal. If, however, teaches that those books are guides, then there is no reason that they cannot just coexist, but enrich one another.

But I'm an Atheist, so feel free to ignore me

I won't.

[weltschmerz]

Sept 9, 2012 18:07:51 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

I absolutely believe in science. Before I retired, I was in a science field. Radiation Physics. After I retired, I dumbed down and relaxed quite a bit. I also believe in God. I see Him as the master scientist.

Also, He is not a puppet master as He has given us free will and will not interfere with our choices. He will send assistance in hopes we make a good decision, but the end result must always be our choice. He doesn't dole out punishment either. Scientifically what goes up must come down, or the circle must always be completed. Or, every action has a reaction. The only thing is - that I can see - the reaction may fall somewhere else. To this I have no answer, just a therory.

By Puppetmaster, I meant zapping things like bacteria and elephants into existence.
What do you mean, he doesn't dole out punishment? You know how many times I've been told I will roast in hell for not being a believer? Screaming in a fiery pit of eternal flame doesn't sound like punishment to you?

[Virgil Showlion]

What do you mean, he doesn't dole out punishment? You know how many times I've been told I will roast in hell for not being a believer? Screaming in a fiery pit of eternal flame doesn't sound like punishment to you?

Nobody on NMSNM has ever said anything remotely like this to you.

Which is quite a feat, considering you bring it up over and over and over again, and then again, and then in a thread about science, and then in one about boxing, and about cleaning our toilets, again, and again, and in the thread about the dalmatian with two heads, and in the "coupon madness" thread, and the "Happy Birthday Archie" thread, and then in the "how do I clean up cat poo?" thread, over and over and over and over until we'd all rather gouge out our eardrums with a screwdriver than go into one more thread and find more Weltzian agonizing over what some Christian said to her in 1977, on and on and on and...

“Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.”
    - Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)

...the understatement of the millennium.

[Loopdilou]

And Virgil swoops in to defend God the Almighty from the screaming heathens.

Shocking.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 9, 2012 19:46:08 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 9, 2012 18:07:51 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

I absolutely believe in science. Before I retired, I was in a science field. Radiation Physics. After I retired, I dumbed down and relaxed quite a bit. I also believe in God. I see Him as the master scientist.

Also, He is not a puppet master as He has given us free will and will not interfere with our choices. He will send assistance in hopes we make a good decision, but the end result must always be our choice. He doesn't dole out punishment either. Scientifically what goes up must come down, or the circle must always be completed. Or, every action has a reaction. The only thing is - that I can see - the reaction may fall somewhere else. To this I have no answer, just a therory.

By Puppetmaster, I meant zapping things like bacteria and elephants into existence.
What do you mean, he doesn't dole out punishment? You know how many times I've been told I will roast in hell for not being a believer? Screaming in a fiery pit of eternal flame doesn't sound like punishment to you?

Perhaps you were hanging around the wrong people.

Let's just say God is your Creator. Your dad. And then let's also say you have a child. Would you be condemning your child all of the time? A good and loving parent guides when guidance is needed, disciplines with love. And accepts their child for who they are. This is the real God. The one these other people know, doesn't exist.

[Loopdilou]

We're certainly glad that's how you feel, id, unfortunately, there is a vocal contingent of the Abrahamic faiths who do like to warn us heathens of our eventual fiery torture.

[Virgil Showlion]

there is a vocal contingent of the Abrahamic faiths who do like to warn us heathens of our eventual fiery torture

You can't procure one post anywhere on NMSNM, posted at any time, whose contents come anywhere near this description.

[chiver78]

Sept 9, 2012 21:27:20 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

there is a vocal contingent of the Abrahamic faiths who do like to warn us heathens of our eventual fiery torture

You can't procure one post anywhere on NMSNM, posted at any time, whose contents come anywhere near this description.

not for nothing Virgil, but please point out where either of the ladies said anyone did on this board. I certainly didn't see it.

[Loopdilou]

Yeah, I don't recall saying that someone here had done it either. Virgil appears to be suffering from a paranoid schizophrenic break

[Virgil Showlion]

not for nothing Virgil, but please point out where either of the ladies said anyone did on this board. I certainly didn't see it

If 20% of my 9,000 posts were devoted to condemning atheists for espousing extraterrestrial theories I felt were idiotic—and I justified my criticism by claiming that somewhere (that isn't NMSNM), somebody (that isn't from NMSNM) condemned me for not believing in aliens—wouldn't you consider it about time that I bloody well got a life?

[Loopdilou]

I think most people who post here need to get a life, not sure why that scenario would make it even more imperative.

[Virgil Showlion]

I think most people who post here need to get a life, not sure why that scenario would make it even more imperative.

Remarkably, most of us spend our time discussing ideas we feel are of value, and not those we claim are antiquated, foolish, and that mean nothing to us.

[chiver78]

Sept 9, 2012 21:39:02 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

not for nothing Virgil, but please point out where either of the ladies said anyone did on this board. I certainly didn't see it

If 20% of my 9,000 posts were devoted to condemning atheists for espousing extraterrestrial theories I felt were idiotic—and I justified my criticism by claiming that somewhere (that isn't NMSNM), somebody (that isn't from NMSNM) condemned me for not believing in aliens—wouldn't you consider it about time that I bloody well got a life?

I would, but there's a lot more people that believe in the Master Puppeteer (to paraphrase weltz) than are atheist. an atheist isn't going to pray for those that don't hold the same views, but a religious person certainly could feel that was okay. to a non-believer, that comes across like a wish of "bless your heart!" dripping with Southern sarcasm. even if you don't tell the person you believe they are condemned to hell, others do. and I'm pretty sure you believe it even if you don't say it, just from the posts you have made on this board.

all that said, neither loop nor weltz have made anywhere close to that many posts talking about people condemning them to eternal hell for their disbeliefs. methinks you doth protest too much.

[Loopdilou]

Been to EE lately?

[Virgil Showlion]

and I'm pretty sure you believe it even if you don't say it, just from the posts you have made on this board.

That they'll burn forever in fiery torment? I can point you to several posts where I specifically state (and prove) that this is not a scriptural view.

For all the attention Weltz et al. are willing to devote to what Christians actually say on NMSNM, I might as well be making motor boat noises with my lips.

It's like debating a sieve.

all that said, neither loop nor weltz have made anywhere close to that many posts talking about people condemning them to eternal hell for their disbeliefs. methinks you doth protest too much.

At least one in five posts either directly or indirectly devoted to expressing her contempt for religion.

At least that.

If I devote even a fiftieth of my contributions to rebuttal, "I doth protest too much". So be it. Our comment records are plainly viewable.

[Loopdilou]

Please, do find us the proof of this completely made up 1 in 5 statistic you've trotted out.

[Virgil Showlion]

Please, do find us the proof of this completely made up 1 in 5 statistic you've trotted out.

Out of the latest 50 posts in Weltz' profile, results #1, #13, #29, #30, #42, #43, ...
Admittedly that's only 12%. It's the weekend and "cats" seem to be the major theme.

[weltschmerz]

Sept 9, 2012 22:56:46 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Please, do find us the proof of this completely made up 1 in 5 statistic you've trotted out.

Out of the latest 50 posts in Weltz' profile, results #1, #13, #29, #30, #42, #43, ...
Admittedly that's only 12%. It's the weekend and "cats" seem to be the major theme.

ROTFLMAO!! And you're saying that's it's me who should get a life? Too funny! Look, it's no surprise that the most uber-religious poster gets his hackles up when the atheist posts. Don't like what I have to say? Ignore me. It's very simple. As long as I abide by the CoC, I'm golden. I'm not here to cater to your whims or massage your ego.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I'm not going to pick sides here. I was raised in a Christian family and followed the beliefs of our church. I've had to overcome some pretty big obstacles in the last few years, and my belief in a God has waivered and become somewhat questionable (or cynical) - so right now in my life, I'm on the fence. I don't choose to condemn non-believers, and I don't necessarily rally behind those who do. I think it's up to the individual to decide what's right for them and their life. We're all going to have our lives end at some time - and what happens after that is unknown. I think all we know for sure is that this life is meant to be lived as we see fit for ourselves - whether it means worshiping a god or not.

[mmhmm]

Sept 10, 2012 2:04:48 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

I'm not going to pick sides here. I was raised in a Christian family and followed the beliefs of our church. I've had to overcome some pretty big obstacles in the last few years, and my belief in a God has waivered and become somewhat questionable (or cynical) - so right now in my life, I'm on the fence. I don't choose to condemn non-believers, and I don't necessarily rally behind those who do. I think it's up to the individual to decide what's right for them and their life. We're all going to have our lives end at some time - and what happens after that is unknown. I think all we know for sure is that this life is meant to be lived as we see fit for ourselves - whether it means worshiping a god or not.

Danged straight!

[Jaguar]

Sept 10, 2012 2:30:14 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 10, 2012 2:04:48 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

I'm not going to pick sides here. I was raised in a Christian family and followed the beliefs of our church. I've had to overcome some pretty big obstacles in the last few years, and my belief in a God has waivered and become somewhat questionable (or cynical) - so right now in my life, I'm on the fence. I don't choose to condemn non-believers, and I don't necessarily rally behind those who do. I think it's up to the individual to decide what's right for them and their life. We're all going to have our lives end at some time - and what happens after that is unknown. I think all we know for sure is that this life is meant to be lived as we see fit for ourselves - whether it means worshiping a god or not.

Danged straight!

I agree as well >> ~ K 2 come when I refill.

[Virgil Showlion]

Don't like what I have to say? Ignore me. It's very simple.

Says the poster who threw a fit about "Where's the X?" jokes.

And you're saying that's it's me who should get a life?

Indeed I am, and you should.

That's the sum total of my argument in this thread.

[mrsdutt]

Ladies and gentleman: Can we agree that each person -as an adult - is free to come to any conclusion they wish? How does it hurt another person -as pertaining to this subject? I think I've said it before and I'll repeat myself here, God does not need our help in proving His case (existence) He knocks at the door of everyone heart. If He can allow a person to open that door, shouldn't we be able to do the same thing?

SCOTTISH: You had my attention until this: I think all we know for sure is that this life is meant to be lived as we see fit for ourselves -

If you left off '...for ourselves', I would agree. But indeed we aren't put here for ourselves, but rather to assist each other in life. I'm sure you understand this.

If there were anything I could say that may appeal to all of you I would ask everyone to push aside what people have done to you, then search for answers. If a person was able to do this, then the truth would rise to the top. Whatever it may be.

[Jaguar]

[mrsdutt]

Sept 10, 2012 5:24:05 GMT -5 Jaguar said:

This post doesn't seem to coincide with your quote nor your core beliefs.

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 5:18:55 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Ladies and gentleman: Can we agree that each person -as an adult - is free to come to any conclusion they wish?

Hmm… I'm not sure. You say later on that we should "push aside what people have done", but previous experience contributes to who we are and informs the views we hold now. Upbringing, cultural influence, indoctrination etc., all play their part. One may feel free to have chosen a conclusion but really their entire person has been teased into form by a combination of external circumstances and their reaction to them.

I understand that this is probably not quite what you were asking with that question.

Ladies and gentleman: Can we agree that each person -as an adult - is free to come to any conclusion they wish? How does it hurt another person -as pertaining to this subject?

The question's scope is grander than the subject here. If, for example, the conclusion a person reaches is that God wishes all non-believers dead and that He has made it their duty to enforce this decree on Earth… one need not stretch their imagination too far to envisage how this might cause harm.

[mrsdutt]

INNER said: You say later on that we should "push aside what people have done", but previous experience contributes to who we are and informs the views we hold now. Upbringing, cultural influence, indoctrination etc., all play their part. One may feel free to have chosen a conclusion but really their entire person has been teased into form by a combination of external circumstances and their reaction to them

Absolutely. But on the other side of the 'coin' a person can choose to shed their past and move forward. I'm not saying it's easy. As a matter of fact there are multiple obstacles in the way. But, I know it is doable. And the most freeing thing on earth. If only - just for a moment - each person could shed all outside influences, they would be able to see how simple and free life can be. What we are is 99% what we think and / or feel.

[mmhmm]

Sept 10, 2012 5:30:18 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Sept 10, 2012 5:24:05 GMT -5 Jaguar said:

This post doesn't seem to coincide with your quote nor your core beliefs.

I don't know that I've ever seen Sugi put forth her "core beliefs" for our enlightenment, lduttinger. Perhaps, you know more than the rest of us?

[mmhmm]

]If you left off '...for ourselves', I would agree. But indeed we aren't put here for ourselves, but rather to assist each other in life. I'm sure you understand this.

I'm sure she does, as well. I'm also pretty sure she understands if one is not true to him/herself it's a cinch they'll not be true to anyone else.

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 7:44:00 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

If only - just for a moment - each person could shed all outside influences, they would be able to see how simple and free life can be.

Yes. It seems to me that you're slowly making your way towards describing the moment of enlightenment there, although I believe that this requires shedding the self too, in order to allow for the most naked and unadulterated experience possible to come flooding in.