End the FED?

[maui1]

The point I'm making is the USA has always been this way.

Nothing new and we have survived and prospered

'prosper', can only be measured in the future, when we are paying for today with tomorrows growth........how long can this be pushed into the future, should be everyone's question, because the day it can't be pushed ahead, is the day we should all be fearing.........kinda like japan worrying about the next big earth quake, and if that will be the last one.

in 2006/7, everyone thought our economy was "prospering".........NOT!

[usaone]

In the future GDP will be 40 trillion a year and 1 trillion of debt will be a drop in the bucket.

[maui1]

in the future i will fly, without outside support........but i would not bet money on it any time soon.

our economy is moving to a services economy........where will will have rich and those that service the rich.

i saw this transformation in hawaii.........50 years ago, the economy was 100% ag, and now it is almost 100% a tourist industry related economy. things change, and we better get used to it, and be willing to adapt to that change. bailing out a car industry to keep jobs in the usa, that in the near future will not have jobs in the usa anyway, seems to be fighting the inevitable.

[jarhead1976]

What happens if Yuan becomes the reserve currency, some time down the road?

[maui1]

the yuan will not be the reserve currency, because everyone has learned from the dollar, the power you give away, by doing this. the world can be controlled by america because we control the dollar. all countries see this now and there is a strong move to diversify this power.

china is supporting the euro, not because it is any better than the dollar (in fact, it sucks), but because it is the only other major currency that rivals the dollar. china is also buying and producing metals, again to diversify it's holding of the dollar.

[usaone]

China is long the dollar.

[maui1]

they are not selling the dollar as it only hurts them, because they have so many dollars. as i said earlier, they are between a rock and a hard place.

there are strong currencies like the aussie dollar, swiss frank, or the canadian loonie, but all are to small to take a strong position in.

the dollar is better than the euro, the pound, the yuan, and the yen, but it is not to say that the dollar is good, it is just a little better than a the rest of the fiat currencies that out there.

tell me why china is buying a currency like the euro, that is on the verge of collapse, if not diversifying out of the dollar?

[dumdeedoe]

I believe China is taking on EU debt as business move.... not as a investment...

And EU has asked them to help out with the debt problem..


www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11987147

Makes sense, They have over 2 trillion in American debt.They might as well help out the EU alittle...

We are the country that is keeping China afloat...www.forbes.com/2010/03/04/china-united-states-trade-exports-opinions-columnists-gordon-g-chang.html

As the dollar falls so does China... They now have a trade defict.
news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110321/bs_nm/us_china_trade

The dollar is the only currency that can put presser on China to adjust its yuan.....

[maui1]

dum- agreed........but at the same time, we are hurting ourselves.

in 1989, this devaluing of the dollar, broke the strong hold japan had on us, but again, most countries saw what we did to japan, and will not let that happen to them. that is the reason china is working hard to diversify out of an all dollar portfolio, into the euro, metals, 'rare earth products'.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

China is giving the Europeans dollars so they can buy things from China. China is buying EU debt to prop up the EU so that their biggest trading partner doesn't go offline. It will be interesting to see what the current reserves are because we heard that China was getting out of the dollar all last year, and buy the end of the year there was another increase to 2.85 Trillion dollars. That is from 2.5 Trillion in 2008. China currently has almost 3x the USD dollar holdings of Japan, the second largest holder.. So your completely wrong maui1, China in fact has gotten even more in debt than Japan did.

[maui1]

aham- you don't read at all or you don't understand what you read.

i said that china is "between a rock and a hard place"...........they want to get out of the dollar so bad that they are willing to support the euro, which is a failing fiat curreny, but they have so many dollars that they are hard pressed to do so, whithout hurting the dollar's value, thus hurting themselves, because they own so many dollars.

btw.........the usa is the largest buyer of china's goods.

[maui1]

Beijing has the world's largest foreign exchange reserves at $2.847 trillion as of the end of 2010. A large chunk -- $1.16 trillion -- is parked in low-yielding US Treasuries but a growing portion is invested in euro-denominated assets.In January, PBoC vice governor Yi Gang said European financial markets would remain "one of the most important investment areas for China's foreign exchange reserves".

[maui1]

Table 8: China's Top Export Destinations 2009 ($ billion)
Source: PRC General Administration of Customs, China's Customs Statistics
Rank Country/region Volume % change over 2008
1 United States 220.8 -12.5
2 Hong Kong 166.2 -12.8
3 Japan 97.9 -15.7
4 South Korea 53.7 -27.4
5 Germany 49.9 -15.7
6 The Netherlands 36.7 -20.1
7 United Kingdom 31.3 -13.3
8 Singapore 30.1 -6.9
9 India 29.7 -6.1
10 Australia 20.6 -7.2



Table 9: China's Top Import Suppliers 2009 ($ billion)
Source: PRC General Administration of Customs, China's Customs Statistics
Rank Country/region Volume % change over 2008
1 Japan 130.9 -13.1
2 South Korea 102.6 -8.5
3 Taiwan 85.7 -17.0
4 United States 77.4 -4.8
5 Germany 55.8 0.0
6 Australia 39.4 5.4
7 Malaysia 32.3 0.7
8 Brazil 28.3 -5.3
9 Thailand 24.9 -3.0
10 Saudi Arabia 23.6 -23.9

[maui1]

eruo zone members
1) Andorra
2) Austria
3) Belgium
4) Cyprus
5) Estonia
6) Finland
7) France
8) Germany
9) Greece
10) Ireland
11) Italy
12) Kosovo
13) Luxembourg
14) Malta
15) Monaco
16) Montenegro
17) Netherlands
18) Portugal
19) San Marino
20) Slovakia
21) Slovenia
22) Spain
23) Vatican City

[lifewasgood]

[maui1]

to direct?

[lifewasgood]

Your mudding the message with too many facts.

[lifewasgood]

Months ago we had a very good discussion on the FED with Poor and Ugly. Bottom line is the Federal Reserve act if argued in front of the Supreme court would be deemed unconstitutional if the judges were honest and just looked at the facts and not the longevity of the act itself. It is a monopoly and takes on the responsibility of the Treasury by a private party. Simple answer is to read the constitution and do what it says.

Stone Wall Jackson had it right and did the right thing, unfortunately all other presidents that tried to crush the money changers ended in death or ruin. JFK being the last.

But then again lets not let facts get in the way of a good discussion ;D

[jarhead1976]

China "Attacks The Dollar" - Moves To Further Cement Renminbi Reserve Currency Status
Tyler Durden's picture
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/02/2011


In a surprising turn of events, today's biggest piece of news received a mere two paragraph blurb on Reuters, and was thoroughly ignored by the broader media. An announcement appeared shortly after midnight on the website of the People's Bank of China.

The statement, google translated as "Pragmatic and pioneering spirit to promote cross-border renminbi business semen on monitoring and analysis to a new level" is presented below:

Reuters provides a simple translation and summary of the announcement: "China hopes to allow all exporters and importers to settle their cross-border trades in the yuan by this year, the central bank said on Wednesday, as part of plans to grow the currency's international role. In a statement on its website www.pbc.gov.cn, the central bank said it would respond to overseas demand for the yuan to be used as a reserve currency. It added it would also allow the yuan to flow back into China more easily." To all those who claim that China is perfectly happy with the status quo, in which it is willing to peg the Renmibni to the Dollar in perpetuity, this may come as a rather unpleasant surprise, as it indicates that suddenly China is far more vocal about its intention to convert its currency to reserve status, and in the process make the dollar even more insignificant.

[lifewasgood]

Not sure if it makes the dollar any less significant, but what does is further escalates the currency wars and ends with an IMF new world reserve currency which at that point mutes all others.

[verrip1]

Apr 5, 2011 9:41:38 GMT -5 @maui1 said:

they are not selling the dollar as it only hurts them, because they have so many dollars. as i said earlier, they are between a rock and a hard place.

Doesn't seem all that imperative to me. Sounds to me like you are simply making up this 'rock and a hard place' stuff. They decided a long time ago to peg their currency to the USD. Now they are starting to diversify away from it. That's completely different from dumping all their USD and buying all Euros.

Apr 5, 2011 9:41:38 GMT -5 @maui1 said:

the dollar is better than the euro, the pound, the yuan, and the yen, but it is not to say that the dollar is good, it is just a little better than a the rest of the fiat currencies that out there.

Geez, WTF other metric of a currency is there, than how they do against other currencies? Why don't you tell us about all the successful current NON-FIAT currencies out there, hmmmmmm?

Apr 5, 2011 9:41:38 GMT -5 @maui1 said:

tell me why china is buying a currency like the euro, that is on the verge of collapse, if not diversifying out of the dollar?

The Euro is not on the verge of collapse, so your premise is wrong. According to your apparent rationale, a person with a case of the flu would be 'on the verge' of death. It makes sense for China to look at holding only USD as an underdiversification in its portfolio. Holding only USD gives the US undue (to them) influence on China's monetary affairs. I'm surprised that China has not held more Euros all along. With the small % of Euro vs. large % of USD, this is just small potatoes. When it gets up to 25% Euros, let me know and we'll talk some more.

[maui1]

verr- i guess you really told me a thing or two!

i don't know how to respond to your post without getting kicked out of here.

sorry

[verrip1]

It shouldn't be all that difficult to say that you disagree with me short of calling me an asshole or something. Actually, I really am an asshole, so you'd be telling the truth if you said so.

Generally, I thought you used too much supposition and didn't consider alternative possibilities in your post I quoted. It must be my nature to put things in uncomfortable terms. I'll try to be better next time.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

No V, keep it up, those uncomfortable terms are what lifwasegood was referring to, facts!

Maui1 you said

Apr 6, 2011 10:19:12 GMT -5 @maui1 said:

dum- agreed........but at the same time, we are hurting ourselves.

in 1989, this devaluing of the dollar, broke the strong hold japan had on us, but again, most countries saw what we did to japan, and will not let that happen to them. that is the reason china is working hard to diversify out of an all dollar portfolio, into the euro, metals, 'rare earth products'.

Your claim was that China would not make the same mistake that Japan did, when in fact China holds 3x the foreign currencies that Japan does(Mostly USD(debt), and the USA is actually 17th on the list.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_reserves

Oh ya the EU, here is some homework for you and life, maui1; keep reading.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union#Economy

The EU has established a single market across the territory of all its members. A monetary union, the eurozone, using a single currency comprises 17 members states.[130] In 2009 the EU generated an estimated 28% share (US$ 16.5 trillion) of the world's nominal GDP,[131] and an estimated 21% (US$ 14.8 trillion) share of the global GDP (PPP),[19] making it the largest economy in the world. It is the largest exporter,[132] the largest importer[133] of goods and services, and the biggest trading partner to several large countries such as the United States, China and India.[134][135][136]

[verrip1]

Aman, I know, I know. But if I say things perceived as insulting, that lets them stop the discussion under the pretext that I'm acting like a bad guy, instead of having to agree that my points are valid.

Which I think they are.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I agree your points are very accurate, and who knew this EU thingy was so big?

[verrip1]

It looks to me that the smartest country in the Union is the Brits. They kept out of the Euro during times unfavorable to them, which happened to end up at a time where the other countries' negative impacts on the new currency all surfaced. A solid financial PM over there would be biding his time to join after new controls are mandated. All at a cost and under terms significantly discounted to the conditions during the Blair ministry.

[lifewasgood]

EU Morning Report- Euro soars a day after the ECB Interest Rate Decision
au.ibtimes.com/articles/132120/20110408/eu-morning-report-euro-soars-a-day-after-the-ecb-interest-rate-decision.htm

Currency wars continue. How much pain will the US take before the Fed Acts. I predict Much Much More.

[usaone]

QE2 will be the end.

[maui1]

the european union is not the same as the euro zone. sorry

i published both for you, but who reads today?