Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 31, 2012 11:52:53 GMT -5
"4, Just me, but it bothers me that state given student IDs or federal given military IDs are not going to be accepted, and frankly I see no reason to exclude them."
I agree with you. Student ID's and military ID's should be allowed. I assume when someone shows their ID they'll be checked against the voter logs for that district, so a student ID or military ID should be fine. I'm not sure why they wouldn't be okay. Though college students voting is an interesting issue. Many college students are transitory and thus, need to vote via absentee ballot. That's what I did in the 2004 and 2008 elections.
"And I do trust the results, even without requiring a photo ID California has you give your name and address to the person at the voting block you are suppose to be in, who check it against voter registration. If it is not there, or you get even a apartment # off, then you must show ID."
So all I have to do is go to a voting precinct, find the nearest residential property, and give that address to vote? I could spend all day doing that, going from one voting place to another. And no one would be the wiser. Any fool can give an address. They aren't going to check if I actually live there.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 31, 2012 13:42:34 GMT -5
"4, Just me, but it bothers me that state given student IDs or federal given military IDs are not going to be accepted, and frankly I see no reason to exclude them." I agree with you. Student ID's and military ID's should be allowed. I assume when someone shows their ID they'll be checked against the voter logs for that district, so a student ID or military ID should be fine. I'm not sure why they wouldn't be okay. Though college students voting is an interesting issue. Many college students are transitory and thus, need to vote via absentee ballot. That's what I did in the 2004 and 2008 elections. "And I do trust the results, even without requiring a photo ID California has you give your name and address to the person at the voting block you are suppose to be in, who check it against voter registration. If it is not there, or you get even a apartment # off, then you must show ID." So all I have to do is go to a voting precinct, find the nearest residential property, and give that address to vote? I could spend all day doing that, going from one voting place to another. And no one would be the wiser. Any fool can give an address. They aren't going to check if I actually live there. Just giving the address isn't enough. What she meant is that when you go to the polling place you have to give them your name as it was listed on your registration to vote paperwork as well as the address has to match exactly. So just memorizing addresses won't cut it unless you happen to know the person there who is registered to vote and how they listed their name and address on the registration.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 13:45:47 GMT -5
"4, Just me, but it bothers me that state given student IDs or federal given military IDs are not going to be accepted, and frankly I see no reason to exclude them." I agree with you. Student ID's and military ID's should be allowed. I assume when someone shows their ID they'll be checked against the voter logs for that district, so a student ID or military ID should be fine. I'm not sure why they wouldn't be okay. Though college students voting is an interesting issue. Many college students are transitory and thus, need to vote via absentee ballot. That's what I did in the 2004 and 2008 elections. "And I do trust the results, even without requiring a photo ID California has you give your name and address to the person at the voting block you are suppose to be in, who check it against voter registration. If it is not there, or you get even a apartment # off, then you must show ID." So all I have to do is go to a voting precinct, find the nearest residential property, and give that address to vote? I could spend all day doing that, going from one voting place to another. And no one would be the wiser. Any fool can give an address. They aren't going to check if I actually live there. So you would know the person full name and address just from going to a house in the area? Ca has been doing this for a while without problems, certainly no more cases of fraud that states that require IDs. And they are not ok because the GOP were trying to remove college students from voting by saying all IDs had to have expiration dates (also excluded some other forms of picture ID that the elderly have), and some military branches don't have expiration dates and got caught up in it. Ironically enough, the laws specifically allow for military IDs. But a later line makes it as long as they have the expiration date. So basically many of those writing these laws were uninformed.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 31, 2012 13:50:40 GMT -5
"And they are not ok because the GOP were trying to remove college students from voting by saying all IDs had to have expiration dates (also excluded some other forms of picture ID that the elderly have), and some military branches don't have expiration dates and got caught up in it. Ironically enough, the laws specifically allow for military IDs. But a later line makes it as long as they have the expiration date. So basically many of those writing these laws were uninformed." I see their point about expiration dates and college ID's. But they aren't "trying to remove college students" from voting, it just means the college students will have to get a state ID like everyone else. Military ID's nowdays DO have expiration dates on them. Military/federal ID's are now standardized. Used to be each agency/military branch had it's own ID. Now it's all the same, and it has a month and date that it expires. So those should meet the expiration date requirements. I know because I have a federal ID for my job. "So you would know the person full name and address just from going to a house in the area? Ca has been doing this for a while without problems, certainly no more cases of fraud that states that require IDs." It would be a bit harder, but certainly doable if you are still determined. It's not hard to find an address and the name of a person who lives there. There are these things called the white pages
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 16:25:46 GMT -5
"And they are not ok because the GOP were trying to remove college students from voting by saying all IDs had to have expiration dates (also excluded some other forms of picture ID that the elderly have), and some military branches don't have expiration dates and got caught up in it. Ironically enough, the laws specifically allow for military IDs. But a later line makes it as long as they have the expiration date. So basically many of those writing these laws were uninformed." I see their point about expiration dates and college ID's. But they aren't "trying to remove college students" from voting, it just means the college students will have to get a state ID like everyone else. Military ID's nowdays DO have expiration dates on them. Military/federal ID's are now standardized. Used to be each agency/military branch had it's own ID. Now it's all the same, and it has a month and date that it expires. So those should meet the expiration date requirements. I know because I have a federal ID for my job. "So you would know the person full name and address just from going to a house in the area? Ca has been doing this for a while without problems, certainly no more cases of fraud that states that require IDs." It would be a bit harder, but certainly doable if you are still determined. It's not hard to find an address and the name of a person who lives there. There are these things called the white pages My name in the white pages (and my mother's, and my aunt's) are not the legal name on the registration. Again, it works, there no more fraud in Ca, than states that require photo ID. And frankly, you can get a fake ID too. And the average personal fraud is statistically insignificant anyway.
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Phoenix84
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Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 1, 2012 3:33:42 GMT -5
*shrugs* there are plenty of other ways to get a name, even a legal one. Most people go by their legal names. Just pretend you're a co worker or friend. Drive by and open their mailbox when they're not looking at their mail. Engage some random stranger in a conversation outside their house (it's a process called phishing). Or just do what someone did in a youtube video, pretend you're a famous person or politician, or someone else who is in the public record. If you don't get the right one and they ask for ID, all you have to do is say you made a mistake and leave and head to another precinct.
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adela76
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Post by adela76 on Sept 1, 2012 10:47:52 GMT -5
In my state, you need to have something with your address on it, whether it's a photo ID or a utility bill, so it's more than just giving the correct legal name and address. Phoenix will probably argue that someone could steal my mail or go thru my trash to find an old bill, but the question is - who would bother? It would take thousands and thousands of people committing voter fraud in order to affect the outcome in a single district, and there's just no evidence of that happening. As others have said, there are easier ways to steal an election.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 1, 2012 10:59:47 GMT -5
The voter fraud problem isn't really taking place at polling stations. The fraud is taking place with absentee ballots.
Fix absentee ballot fraud and you will fix voter fraud.
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