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Post by Thinking-long-term on Jan 29, 2011 12:42:55 GMT -5
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Post by Thinking-long-term on Jan 29, 2011 12:46:12 GMT -5
If the Suez canal is threatened do we step in to keep it open?
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Post by Thinking-long-term on Jan 29, 2011 12:49:39 GMT -5
Get ready for five dollar a gallon gas Mr. and Mrs. America. Brought to you by your local Community organizer.
It's for your own good you know.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jan 29, 2011 13:02:17 GMT -5
Actually it was President Bush who called for the spread of democracy in the Middle East..they got it in the West Bank, Hamas won in Gaza over the PA..sometimes better you don't ask for things.. This has nothing to do with Obama..this is people who are looking for more then a one man rule, Tunesia..28 years of corrupt leadership... Egypt, basically 32 years of rule by one man, plus heavy military over all conrol... As much as some here want a certain type of government in power, who here would want 32 years of any party in control and expect that there would be no abuses..no corruption..no one sided politics and the other side just simmering for a revolt.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jan 29, 2011 13:07:42 GMT -5
I am not sure what would be the best response in this case. I really don't know the implications either way. Drill baby drill
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Post by Thinking-long-term on Jan 29, 2011 13:17:24 GMT -5
Actually it was President Bush who called for the spread of democracy in the Middle East..they got it in the West Bank, Hamas won in Gaza over the PA..sometimes better you don't ask for things.. This has nothing to do with Obama..this is people who are looking for more then a one man rule, Tunesia..28 years of corrupt leadership... Egypt, basically 32 years of rule by one man, plus heavy military over all conrol... As much as some here want a certain type of government in power, who here would want 32 years of any party in control and expect that there would be no abuses..no corruption..no one sided politics and the other side just simmering for a revolt. Got it Bush's Fault. Didn't take long.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 29, 2011 13:27:26 GMT -5
Pretty soon you will be posting articles from Huffington Post and claiming Keith Olbermann was 100% right in his opinions.
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Post by Thinking-long-term on Jan 29, 2011 13:34:41 GMT -5
Pretty soon you will be posting articles from Huffington Post and claiming Keith Olbermann was 100% right in his opinions. Tough playing with the big boy's isn't it?
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Post by Thinking-long-term on Jan 29, 2011 13:36:59 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 29, 2011 13:38:37 GMT -5
Are we positive that this isn't actually about the Egyptians?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 29, 2011 13:39:53 GMT -5
Pretty soon you will be posting articles from Huffington Post and claiming Keith Olbermann was 100% right in his opinions. Tough playing with the big boy's isn't it? LOL. Human rights and you just don't go hand-in-hand.
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Post by Thinking-long-term on Jan 29, 2011 13:41:41 GMT -5
Tough playing with the big boy's isn't it? LOL. Human rights and you just don't go hand-in-hand. You have no idea of what you speak.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jan 29, 2011 13:43:30 GMT -5
Actually it was President Bush who called for the spread of democracy in the Middle East..they got it in the West Bank, Hamas won in Gaza over the PA..sometimes better you don't ask for things.. This has nothing to do with Obama..this is people who are looking for more then a one man rule, Tunisia..28 years of corrupt leadership... Egypt, basically 32 years of rule by one man, plus heavy military over all control... As much as some here want a certain type of government in power, who here would want 32 years of any party in control and expect that there would be no abuses..no corruption..no one sided politics and the other side just simmering for a revolt. Got it Bush's Fault. Didn't take long. Didn't say it was a fault but the header and article posted, in it's entirety by the way, fine by me but Trae is it the length or the whole, confused, I digress, but its a fact, Bush did call for democracy in the region, which was fine. However my first thought when he did do that, I can get you the links, I thought of the emirates, Saudis, Kuwait, Jordan and definitely Egypt ...and what had happened in the West Bank when they had open elections, and thought his dad must have been squirming on the couch as he watched his remarks on TV. Wanting to call him and say , "Hey Son , not here to criticize but the reality of the situation, our, America's friends, in the area , are not the most Democratic in the scheme of things..you do have advisers don't you, do you listen to them? If you like, be glad to fly up and have a little face to face, tell you some geography lessons that you might be a bit weak on "
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Post by Thinking-long-term on Jan 29, 2011 13:44:20 GMT -5
Are we positive that this isn't actually about the Egyptians? Think we ought to stay out of it and let them decide it for themselves instead of going on stage and admonishing a sitting Government?
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Jan 29, 2011 13:44:26 GMT -5
Actually it was President Bush who called for the spread of democracy in the Middle East..they got it in the West Bank, Hamas won in Gaza over the PA..sometimes better you don't ask for things.. This has nothing to do with Obama..this is people who are looking for more then a one man rule, Tunesia..28 years of corrupt leadership... Egypt, basically 32 years of rule by one man, plus heavy military over all conrol... As much as some here want a certain type of government in power, who here would want 32 years of any party in control and expect that there would be no abuses..no corruption..no one sided politics and the other side just simmering for a revolt. Got it Bush's Fault. Didn't take long. Bush should not be blamed for anything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2011 13:45:21 GMT -5
I don't like much about Obama, but, to be fair, we have been allies with this President, dictator, whatever he is, since WAY before Obama took over, and Bush, too, for that matter. This is way too complicated to try to blame on one party or the other, IMO. Sounds like the people there have a legitimate gripe, but we sure don't want another type of Hamas gov't in the region, like in Gaza. The Muslim Brotherhood spawned Hamas, and lots of other Israel/USA haters. I'm not sure what Obama should say at this point. Supporting either side could be dangerous for us, for different reasons.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jan 29, 2011 13:53:08 GMT -5
Got it Bush's Fault. Didn't take long. Bush should not be blamed for anything. It's not a blame..my post stands he did say it but what us happening is for the most part just the kettle has bubbled over...because of the longevity of those in party, no political right of expression if against the sitting rulers, corruption , especially in Tunisia, poverty in Egypt, over 50% of the populace live in poverty, even those with college degrees who are promised jobs if needed by the government in government..have to wait three years , if no influence, to be hired, plus the corruption ...not blaming bush at all but the thread was blaming the president and if Bush statement on democracy for the region was not a bad comment how does ABM enter into it. He did forcefully support the right of the populace to have a right to their expressions and warned Mubarak not to come down with force to keep the populace in control. Basically supporting bush's call for democracy in the region and not supporting unequivocally the ones in power.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 29, 2011 13:55:43 GMT -5
The most simplistic explanation: The Nasser Years: During the 50's and 60's, three issues colored the American view of its relationship with Egypt: the Cold War, Arab Nationalism, and Israel as a strategic ally. Initially, President Nasser favored a non-aligned approach and asked the United States for military support. When denied support, Nasser turned to the Soviets who supplied Egypt with the weapons, pushing Egypt closer to the Soviet camp. This, combined with U.S. fear of Nasser's Arab Nationalism, led the United States to worked toward undermining the Egyptian regime. Closer Relationship: President Nasser died in 1970. The new president, Anwar Al-Sadat, actively worked to move Egypt closer to the United States, and Egyptian-American relations gradually improved. This rapprochement was symbolized by Sadat asking the Soviet military advisors to leave Egypt and U.S. President Richard Nixon's request for Congress to authorize $250 million in aid for Egypt. Camp David Accords: Signed on September 17 , 1978 the Camp David Accords brought an end to the conflict between Egypt and Israel and acted as the pre-requisite to the 1979 peace treaty. The event was a milestone for U.S.-Egyptian relations because the accords signed by President Anwar Sadat of Egypt and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin and were mediated by U.S. President Jimmy Carter. As an incentive for Egypt to sign the accords, the United States promised a substantive aid packages for Egypt including military aid that continues today. U.S.-Egyptian relationship has been steadily improving ever since. Current Relationship: Continuing with the Sadat Line, President Mubarak continued the close relationship with the United States. Under Mubarak, Egypt has been playing what is perceived as moderate role in the Middle East, and usually follows American policy on regional issues. Egypt joined the United States in supporting Fatah over Hamas in the recent internal Palestinian split. Additionally, both countries have enjoyed an increasing level of economic cooperation. Egypt's slowness in adapting democratic reforms and reports of human rights abuses has brought periodic criticism from American officials. usforeignpolicy.about.com/od/countryprofi3/p/usegyptprofile.htm
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 29, 2011 13:56:59 GMT -5
In all honesty, the ME:Oil imperialism has been going on for decades. And I do mean decades. We have propped up so many despotic regimes in the ME just for oil that there is bound to be blowback. Even Bush, McCain (in the '08 elections process), and one of Tony Blair's senior advisers admitted that (for instance) Iraq is all about oil.
The time to have discovered an alternative to hydrocarbons as energy, of which there is absolutely ZERO in the aggregate replacement to maintain a constant SOL, was 30-40 years ago.
People can say what they want about Carter, and I do it all the time. But he was right about our energy policy and at least he told the TRUTH that our "national security" WRT the ME is all about oil.
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Post by Thinking-long-term on Jan 29, 2011 13:57:25 GMT -5
I don't like much about Obama, but, to be fair, we have been allies with this President, dictator, whatever he is, since WAY before Obama took over, and Bush, too, for that matter. This is way too complicated to try to blame on one party or the other, IMO. Sounds like the people there have a legitimate gripe, but we sure don't want another type of Hamas gov't in the region, like in Gaza. The Muslim Brotherhood spawned Hamas, and lots of other Israel/USA haters. I'm not sure what Obama should say at this point. Supporting either side could be dangerous for us, for different reasons. Egypt was an anchor of stability in the middle east till the Obama regime started sending mixed messages.
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 29, 2011 13:58:59 GMT -5
I don't like much about Obama, but, to be fair, we have been allies with this President, dictator, whatever he is, since WAY before Obama took over, and Bush, too, for that matter. This is way too complicated to try to blame on one party or the other, IMO. Sounds like the people there have a legitimate gripe, but we sure don't want another type of Hamas gov't in the region, like in Gaza. The Muslim Brotherhood spawned Hamas, and lots of other Israel/USA haters. I'm not sure what Obama should say at this point. Supporting either side could be dangerous for us, for different reasons. Egypt was an anchor of stability in the middle east till the Obama regime started sending mixed messages. Egypt was only stable until both Bush AND Obama allowed the FED to print trillions of funny money, thereby driving up the costs of commodities (including food) across the board. Egypt is rioting because they can't afford to eat and they are sick of the bullshit. The cost of wheat imports was discussed way back in August. We are exporting inflation everywhere and it's no coincidence that Egyptians targeted their central bank's printing facilities.
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 29, 2011 14:04:05 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 29, 2011 14:05:59 GMT -5
Egypt has always been seething below the surface-even before the assassination of Anwar Sadat by Tanzim al-Jihad movement. Terrorist attacks in Egypt occurred long before President Bush and Obama.
If anything blame the 1979 Iranian revolution for planting the seeds of discontent in the Middle East.
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Post by Thinking-long-term on Jan 29, 2011 14:09:17 GMT -5
Egypt is rioting because they can't afford to eat and they are sick of the bullshit. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just like last November here in the good old US of A.
Aint Democracy great.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 29, 2011 14:09:19 GMT -5
I don't like much about Obama, but, to be fair, we have been allies with this President, dictator, whatever he is, since WAY before Obama took over, and Bush, too, for that matter. This is way too complicated to try to blame on one party or the other, IMO. Sounds like the people there have a legitimate gripe, but we sure don't want another type of Hamas gov't in the region, like in Gaza. The Muslim Brotherhood spawned Hamas, and lots of other Israel/USA haters. I'm not sure what Obama should say at this point. Supporting either side could be dangerous for us, for different reasons. Egypt was an anchor of stability in the middle east till the Obama regime started sending mixed messages. But at what cost to Egyptian human rights?
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 29, 2011 14:10:14 GMT -5
Way before that, Tenn. I go back to the days of Aramco and our virtual colonization of Saudi Arabia. The '79 Revolution was more or less blowback from the overthrow of Mossadegh that we supported via Operation Ajax in 1951.
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Post by Thinking-long-term on Jan 29, 2011 14:12:17 GMT -5
Egypt has always been seething below the surface-even before the assassination of Anwar Sadat by Tanzim al-Jihad movement. Terrorist attacks in Egypt occurred long before President Bush and Obama. If anything blame the 1979 Iranian revolution for planting the seeds of discontent in the Middle East. Another wishy washy on Foreign policy President Jimmy Carter. Got it Carter's fault. Almost the exact time frame also two years after Carter was elected the Shah of Iran another US ally was overthrown.
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 29, 2011 14:13:15 GMT -5
Just like last November here in the good old US of A. Aint Democracy great. We haven't felt much of the inflation yet because we've been exporting it to Asia and the developing world. When the world pulls the plug on the dollar we will know what it feels like to see insanely pricey non-discretionaries.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 29, 2011 14:13:27 GMT -5
Way before that, Tenn. I go back to the days of Aramco and our virtual colonization of Saudi Arabia. The '79 Revolution was more or less blowback from the overthrow of Mossadegh that we supported via Operation Ajax in 1951. Of course it does trae-there is a long and twisted history of U.S. and Middle East relations. And Middle Eastern citizens don't forget.
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Post by Thinking-long-term on Jan 29, 2011 14:15:21 GMT -5
Egypt was an anchor of stability in the middle east till the Obama regime started sending mixed messages. But at what cost to Egyptian human rights? I just watched a guy on CNN shouting into the camera about Jobs. "It's the economy Stupid".
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