Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 14, 2012 14:30:06 GMT -5
...how do you handle it?
For example, let's say that you are deeply morally opposed to cheating* and your friend is having an affair. Do you tell your friend what you think? Wait until they ask? Say nothing in an attempt to be "nonjudgmental"? Rethink the friendship?
*If cheating is okay with you, think of something else you're deeply morally opposed to other people doing and which causes you to lose respect for someone when you know they're doing it... everyone's got something. Drugs, lying, kicking a kid out of the house, stealing, whatever.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 14, 2012 14:32:20 GMT -5
Depends on the level of wrong. All of my friends know that if I found out they're beating their children I'll be the first person in line to kick their asses, and call CPS on them when I'm done. I don't give a damn how many happy memories we have together.
Way on the other end of the scale would be something that's "wrong" like lying on a resume. Everybody fudges a bit when applying/interviewing for a job. Not really a big deal. Depending on the severity of the lie of course. Fudging a bit is one thing, claiming to have a degree from Harvard and ten years experience as a CFO when neither are true is something else.
I'd put cheating somewhere right in the middle. It's been my experience that there's usually more going on in the relationship than those outside of it are aware of. I guess I'm saying that most people don't cheat in a vacuum. They don't have this great relationship, happy couple, lovey dovey, everything is fine thing going, with some strange on the side. I'm not saying it can't happen that way, I'm saying I've never seen it. In my experience they might put on a good front, but there are usually problems in the marriage before one spouse goes looking for strange.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 14, 2012 14:32:36 GMT -5
I say nothing. I've learned *the very hard way* over the years that one one wants a morals lecture from you (meaning me or the "big" you). When I've been really offended by something, I've just distanced myself. Not worth getting into.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 14, 2012 14:33:00 GMT -5
I don't have any friends but if I did, I would kiss their ass no matter what they did, b/c I wouldn't want to lose them.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 14, 2012 14:33:52 GMT -5
I say nothing. I've learned *the very hard way* over the years that one one wants a morals lecture from you (meaning me or the "big" you). When I've been really offended by something, I've just distanced myself. Not worth getting into. What if they ask for your opinion? Do you answer honestly?
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Aug 14, 2012 14:34:25 GMT -5
I'm not really sure how it would be in a moral situation, none of my friends have put me there yet, but they have done things that I am strongly against/I thought were very much not in their best interest.
Usually I keep my mouth shut until they bring it up to me. Then I try to be as even handed as I can be when giving my opinion when asked and try not to fly off the handle and get on a soap box when I tell them what I think. Being angry and hyper-critical is probably going to mean your message isn't going to get over the defensiveness barrier.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 14, 2012 14:35:52 GMT -5
...I've done both... intervened/confronted... and sighed/drifted away... it just depends...
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 14, 2012 14:37:39 GMT -5
...I've done both... intervened/confronted... and sighed/drifted away... it just depends... Like on "How I Met Your Mother" when they did interventions?? how did the interventions actually turn out for you??
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 14, 2012 14:38:28 GMT -5
I say nothing. I've learned *the very hard way* over the years that one one wants a morals lecture from you (meaning me or the "big" you). When I've been really offended by something, I've just distanced myself. Not worth getting into. What if they ask for your opinion? Do you answer honestly? In the two most recent cases I can think of, I never got asked . . .
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 14, 2012 14:45:47 GMT -5
If it's an immoral but legal act (e.g. cheating) or just something with which I disagree, I keep my mouth shut. It's not about being nonjudgmental, but I'm not the morality police and don't have any interest in being lectured for things *I* do that they might perceive as immoral, so I'm not going to lecture them. Plus there's the fact that the situation isn't always as it seems - I have a couple of friends who are in open relationships and so what would appear to be cheating is actually completely OK with their partner. That's their deal, and not my place to pass judgment, even if it's not something I would do. If it's something illegal AND immoral (e.g. beating your kids, cheating on your taxes, drinking and driving) that's different. I don't think I've ever been in that situation, but I'd probably pull the "if you don't stop/turn yourself in, I will, or we're done" card. Too much risk for me to associate with people who are engaging in illegal activity. But I'd think that most of my friends are smart enough to not let me know when they're doing something illegal.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 14, 2012 14:45:53 GMT -5
...I've done both... intervened/confronted... and sighed/drifted away... it just depends... Like on "How I Met Your Mother" when they did interventions?? how did the interventions actually turn out for you?? ...none so grand... ...sometimes, the confrontations or interventions are covert... like planning and encouraging alternate activities, and continuing to express my dislike for the other (less desirable) one... ...overt intervention has included "dude, what in the world are you thinking doing x,y,z... you want me to call the cops on you or something?" ...it just depends...
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 14, 2012 14:45:54 GMT -5
Barring obvious and heinous examples like abuse (child, elder, spousal, whatever), violent crimes and such, I really only presume to know what is right and wrong for ME. The thought of spending time and effort determining the rightness of other people's actions, and then trying to foist my own personal judgments on them would exhaust me. And I know I've said this before so I'm sorry for being repetitive, but the only person whose sex life I give a rat's ass about is the person with whom I'm having sex. Unless I really thought a friend was making a decision that was very likely to imminently and seriously hurt them, I would answer any questions with answers like "you should do what you think is best for you". That doesn't mean I won't gossip, though. I'll gossip about other people's silliness a lot. It's free entertainment, and here on YM we're all about frugal.
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Aug 14, 2012 14:47:24 GMT -5
For me its the drug thing. I usually remove myself from the situation. This includes marijuana. I dislike being around high people anyway, so its no big loss. I don't think it's cute or sexy to break the law because 'everyone does it.' I also cannot stand when people go from having a few drinks to get a buzz, to getting falling down drunk whenever there is an open bar - just cause it's free. One of my sister's has been banned from drinking at a friend's house due to her constant sloppiness.
My closest friends know how I feel about both situations, and with the drugs at least, I will usually get a heads up so that I can leave without reeking of smoke. I don't allow my sister in my car when she's been drinking, one time with her throwing up was enough.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 14, 2012 14:47:27 GMT -5
<<< but I'd probably pull the "if you don't stop/turn yourself in, I will, or we're done" card. >>>
...and very useful card in the deck... I've played it myself, on occasion...
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 14, 2012 14:48:29 GMT -5
This might come as a surprise to you guys, but as a general rule I'm a font of criticism, judgment, and unasked for advice. I'm a huge hit at parties!
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 14, 2012 14:52:16 GMT -5
For example, let's say that you are deeply morally opposed to cheating* and your friend is having an affair. Do you tell your friend what you think? Wait until they ask? Say nothing in an attempt to be "nonjudgmental"? Rethink the friendship?
I learned the fine art of Looking the Other Way as a kid, that said I do have some personal guidelines for when I WILL NOT look the other way - 1.) Your behavior is hurting someone physically or longterm emotional abuse and EVERYONE is conveniently Looking the Other Way - I will feel compelled to point out the obvious to everyone. 2.) I will NOT be complicit - if you are gonna use me as an excuse (or any other way) ie "I was out with Tiny Speck on Friday night" when you were out doing stuff you weren't suppose to be doing and I find out you used me as an excuse = I'm gonna rat your sorry ass out so fast your head will spin. 3.) a bit more on the point above: If I know about the moral slippage and you want me to pretend I don't at a party or something else - again I'm gonna tell you how I feel about your actions and maybe you don't want to invite me over or meet your significant other cause I'm sure I'll say something about whatever it is you are doing. I don't do Awkward well. 4.) I won't lie for you - if the authorities, your boss, your spouse ask me point blank about your behaviour - well, I'm not gonna lie for you (I won't be complicit in your deceit).
Just saying...
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 14, 2012 14:52:38 GMT -5
This might come as a surprise to you guys, but as a general rule I'm a font of criticism, judgment, and unasked for advice. I'm a huge hit at parties! I'd've never guessed.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 14, 2012 14:53:46 GMT -5
This might come as a surprise to you guys, but as a general rule I'm a font of criticism, judgment, and unasked for advice. I'm a huge hit at parties! Shocking, I tells ya!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 14, 2012 14:53:50 GMT -5
I hide it pretty well online.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 14, 2012 14:54:42 GMT -5
Barring things that need to be reported like abuse, I keep my mouth shut unless I am specfically asked what I think. I am 99% sure my best friend cheated on her spouse before they divorced but I don't say anything because it's not my business to be her Jimmeny Cricket. I have no clue what was going on in her marriage that lead to her decision and I don't ever plan on asking.
I even told her that because she assumed I was going to jump up and down nad stick my nose in it like other friends did. I told her that unless she wanted to tell me what happened I'd MYOB. It's not my place to nose around in her marriage.
It depends on if I tell someone exactly what I think even if htey ask. I've learned over the years that most people w ho ask do not REALLY want to hear what I actually think, they want me to tell them what they want to hear. When I say my actual thoughts they get pissed off and suddenly I am the bad guy. It's not worth it. It only makes me feel better for a few seconds before the shit rolls downhill.
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Aug 14, 2012 14:57:30 GMT -5
I had a friend who asked me to sign a document that stated she was paying me $XX/week for daycare services, in order for her to qualify for public assistance of some kind. I declined. I started to go into an explanation about how I didn't want the IRS coming after me for unreported income, but when her eyes glazed over I just shut up. She had someone else write it.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 14, 2012 14:59:01 GMT -5
I hide it pretty well online.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 14, 2012 14:59:49 GMT -5
Exactly. One of my friends even told me once, "I know what you think, but I just need you to be positive for me." Mouth shut it is. It's no different here - 85% of the "WWYD?" threads (including my own, I'm sure) are started with a particular agenda or outcome in mind. People usually don't want advice, just validation. Since I have to see my friends on a regular basis, I'm not going to piss them off with impunity like I do you guys
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 14, 2012 15:07:06 GMT -5
My best example is a friend of mine from high school. He was in an abusive relationship that I somehow got sucked into. I told him that if he kept it up he was in for a heap of trouble. He never once said "Gee you are right DQ, thanks for your opinion". We had to stop being friends because I wasn't going to remain involved in his drama.
I ran into him a few months back and his life is WORSE now than it was in high school! I told DH I feel really bad for him because this is what I predicted would happen to his life back in high school.
A valuable lesson that people will do whatever they want to do no matter what you say. They don't want to hear it and all you are doing is wasting air by telling it to them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 15:23:13 GMT -5
Its kid of like the priest or psychologist standards... if they are in danger of harming themselves or others, say something, if not, keep it to yourself...
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 14, 2012 15:26:31 GMT -5
Pretty much how I feel. However, I should point out that unlike priests and psychologists there are no rules saying we can't take advantage of our friend's emotional issues to get a little nooky now and then.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 14, 2012 15:28:51 GMT -5
I won't get pulled into other people's drama, so if it comes to that I just quietly excuse myself from their lives.
For me the fine line are people who are in abusive situations. I absolutely want them to know to call me if they need me. However for my own sanity I won't subject myself or my family to abuse/dysfunction so I won't get caught up in their daily issues either.
But 99% of the time just because I think someone has horrible taste in the opposite sex or is doing something fundamentally stupid I don't think it warrants any comments from me, and I'll change the subject if they bring it up.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 14, 2012 15:32:47 GMT -5
...:::"What if they ask for your opinion? Do you answer honestly?":::...
I think if you are going to write someone out of your life, with whom you've been friendly, they at least deserve to be told that straight up. I certainly appreciated it when people told me that. Most preferred to either lead me on, or be passive aggressive and leave me wondering.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 15:35:28 GMT -5
Well, one of my friendships actually got ruined because of her having an affair. Now I am not the moral police or anything, BUT when she wants me to lie for her and tell her husband that we were together while she actually off boinking her boy toy...I wouldn't do it. She thought I would because I told her about this girl at the bar coming up to me on my birthday and how she started kissing me . So she thought I was ok with cheating. NO, I am NOT ok with cheating. I was kissed by a strange (hot but strange) woman at the bar. I had never met her before. It didn't go farther than a kiss and I told Goose about it when I got home. He didn't consider it cheating since I didn't actually do anything but stand there.....shocked.
Anyway, she ended up going back to her husband and kind of cooling her friendship with me. That was fine with me. I wasn't willing to lie to her husband for her.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 14, 2012 15:38:44 GMT -5
We just finished watching "The League" and I'm pretty sure in every episode one of them noted how much they hate their friends. My husband and I have actually started questioning how much we really like our friends. So, the moral of the story is that our friends can do whatever they want, and either we choose to continue to hang out with them because they still bring us amusement, or we stop hanging out with them because we are no longer amused.
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