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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 8:30:01 GMT -5
This isn't about telling someone you won't do a reasonable task you don't like... But if your first boss comes up to you and grabs your ass, or calls you a whore, or asks you to do something unethical... You sure as heck have the right to think for yourself.... The things people are describing here at things that should NOT be happening or endured... I'm with Lena... I don't want sheep... I agree. It's the parent's job to decide if there's a legitimate problem and what the consequences to the kid would be if they stuck it out through the year. If they'd come out more disciplined, or triumphant because they'd succeeded, or better-equipped to deal with difficult people- fine. With an intractable situation- sensitive kid, incompetent teacher, genuine prejudice towards the kid- yes, I'd make noise. The last thing I want my child to learn is "you are powerless so you must put up with whatever crap people throw at you."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 8:34:12 GMT -5
That if my child has a "mean" third grade teacher that he/she is now going to be a doormat for the rest of their life.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 8:37:03 GMT -5
This isn't about telling someone you won't do a reasonable task you don't like... But if your first boss comes up to you and grabs your ass, or calls you a whore, or asks you to do something unethical... You sure as heck have the right to think for yourself.... The things people are describing here at things that should NOT be happening or endured... I'm with Lena... I don't want sheep... I agree. It's the parent's job to decide if there's a legitimate problem and what the consequences to the kid would be if they stuck it out through the year. If they'd come out more disciplined, or triumphant because they'd succeeded, or better-equipped to deal with difficult people- fine. With an intractable situation- sensitive kid, incompetent teacher, genuine prejudice towards the kid- yes, I'd make noise. The last thing I want my child to learn is "you are powerless so you must put up with whatever crap people throw at you." And, i agree. However, you are presuming that is the lesson being learned. Another bad lesson is possible too. That if your kid doesn't like something, they can kick up enough noise and mom and dad will get them out of it. That isn't necessarily a good lesson either. There are times i intervene for my kid. And, there are times i have sat beside the Principal backing the principal and agreeing that my child was wrong. It really depends on the situation. If there is an abusive teacher, of course. But, if they don't "bond" on personality, oh well. I think learning how to deal under less than ideal conditions is the better lesson in my opinion.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 14, 2012 8:37:44 GMT -5
That if my child has a "mean" third grade teacher that he/she is now going to be a doormat for the rest of their life. IF the mean teacher continually berates your kid, yes, they probably will have some residual issues later on in life. It's got to be really hard to heard that you're stupid and worthless from someone in a position of authority over you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 8:39:49 GMT -5
I think i said that you shouldn't stay in with an abusive teacher did i not?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 8:43:51 GMT -5
One must look at what is really happening. I have heard lots of excuses about the "mean" teacher when in reality it was my kid who just didn't want to do the work. So, do the work or go to dentention and no i am not moving you to a different class!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 8:46:18 GMT -5
You made the analogy to first boss, I was just pointing out there are indeed situations evn with a first boss where you would want someone to think for themselves and not just go along...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 8:46:53 GMT -5
I want my kids to march in line like little soldiers and do my bidding!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 8:51:12 GMT -5
Who doesn't, shoob?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 8:51:55 GMT -5
;D
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 14, 2012 8:52:21 GMT -5
I want my kids to march in line like little soldiers and do my bidding! I do until they are adults, and then I want them magically to have the wisdom of knowing when to tell someone in charge to go eff themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 8:53:00 GMT -5
Well, of course! That's my parenting plan!
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 14, 2012 8:53:47 GMT -5
I want my kids to march in line like little soldiers and do my bidding! I do until they are adults, and then I want them magically to have the wisdom of knowing when to tell someone in charge to go eff themselves. YES! Swamp, please send me your parenting handbook! lol.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 14, 2012 8:53:54 GMT -5
One must look at what is really happening. I have heard lots of excuses about the "mean" teacher when in reality it was my kid who just didn't want to do the work. So, do the work or go to dentention and no i am not moving you to a different class! I saw this with my little sister and my Mom. LS was spoiled rotten, got her feelings hurt over the smallest thing, and was constantly having conflicts with her classmates and teachers. Our Mom thought that because DS was physically small she was being picked on. This was not the case - DS just needed to have her way, all the time, even at school, and she had tearful melt downs about how mean the kids and teachers were if she didn't. Mom wore a path out running back and forth to the principals' office, had DS's class re-assigned, even had the seating assignments moved if DS was near one of the 'mean' kids. Now as a 40 something DS still has tearful melt downs when things don't go exactly her way. She still can't negotiate with people herself (now she uses her DH to negotiate for her). She hasn't been able to hold down a job longer than about 18 months because the boss never likes her and/or her co-workers are mean to her and she has to quit due to stress. Meanwhile the rest of us kids, the ones who didn't have mommy running to the principal for us on a weekly basis, we learned how to deal with douches, get our points across, and not fall into a melted puddle of grief when someone disagrees with us or is nasty to us. It's a fine line. Abusive teachers, no, but learning how to deal with teachers or students that maybe just don't like you for whatever reason - that's life. Suck it up.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 14, 2012 8:54:58 GMT -5
I do until they are adults, and then I want them magically to have the wisdom of knowing when to tell someone in charge to go eff themselves. YES! Swamp, please send me your parenting handbook! lol. Unfortunately, it's blank.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 14, 2012 8:57:10 GMT -5
YES! Swamp, please send me your parenting handbook! lol. Unfortunately, it's blank. Damn.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 8:57:15 GMT -5
Personally, all the focusing on "bullying" is sending a message to kids that they aren't resilient and that their life is traumatized and over if someone calls them a Poo Poo head. What happened to teaching "Sticks and Stones"? I did too much of the Pity Party for my kids for awhile thinking i was helping. Then one day, i realized i was not showing them their own inner strength and that they can stand strong and handle themselves. So, i took the hands off the wheel and told them they are Big Kids now and can handle themselves. But, then again, i took my hands off the wheel when teaching my teen son to drive resulting in $3K worth of damage so YMMV! ;D
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 14, 2012 9:20:03 GMT -5
OK, here is the question for the proponents of "just deal with teachers" - how do you propose an 8 yr old does that?? They have less than zero power and less than zero options. Yep, that's soooo exactly the same as "real life"
All this bravado of "life it tough, suck it up" sounds great on paper, bc if it was a reality, we wouldn't have 1000 and 1 different laws protecting every which "class" we can think of. Give me a break.....
Lena
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 14, 2012 9:23:21 GMT -5
I think its better to get both sides of the argument. I've been accused of all sorts... especially if the child has been put in detention for ...ie....not doing homework, being rude in class, bullying. The child will go home and tell their parents their "version" of the story and the parent comes thundering into School thinking they are protecting their little angel from the big bad establishment. They would be horrified if they knew what really went on.If the School contacts parents informing them that their child has been..ie.. "bullying".....its very likely to be true. Yet we get sworn at and threatened with alarming regularity by parents who just won't believe it...and wish to blame someone else. A School is not an enemy they are only interested in success...Parents who work with the School to iron out all the little problems will get a better result. .
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 9:28:04 GMT -5
Well, as a former 10 year old who lived through it I can tell you that it sucked donkey balls. I was stuck and knew it, but what else could I do? The school wouldn't let me transfer out and the teacher was never going to like me so I sucked it up and got through it.
It was a terrible year for me, but I learned that life is not fair sometimes and sometimes things are out of your control. I also learned that not everyone is going to like you for whatever their reasons may be and you shouldn't waste energy trying to make them like you either! All are valuable life lessons, IMO.
ETA: I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and doggone it, people like me! ;D
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 14, 2012 9:36:25 GMT -5
Beerwench, I am curious - were you upset at your parents at all for not getting you out of the situation?
ETA: I completely agree that lessons you learned are excellent ones and very very valuable.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 14, 2012 9:37:53 GMT -5
These threads remind how not prepared I am to raise children... Guess its a good thing its too late now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 9:40:52 GMT -5
OK, here is the question for the proponents of "just deal with teachers" - how do you propose an 8 yr old does that?? They have less than zero power and less than zero options. Some of the worst mistakes I've made in business have been protecting people who were subpar performers- redoing their work, giving them less to do because they're not productive, etc. When you tolerate a teacher who's genuinely incompetent, you send your kid the message that you just "go along" with people who don't do what they're paid to do. I realize that not every story in this thread involves an incompetent teacher, but kids need to know that sometimes you have to speak up and try to change things. When DS was in a whole school system that couldn't handle him (very bright, a touch of ADD, self-esteem problems from living with a verbally abusive father), I finally just got him out of the darn system and sent him to a private school where he did very well. I shudder to think what would have happened if I'd made him stick it out in the public school system.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 9:43:59 GMT -5
Beerwench, I am curious - were you upset at your parents at all for not getting you out of the situation? ETA: I completely agree that lessons you learned are excellent ones and very very valuable. Good question. I was always a dutiful daughter. I meant it when I said that it took A LOT for me to even ask to get transferred out of there. I don't think I was mad when Mom said no, I have always been laid back so I just went with the flow. I don't blame her for the situation. She was pregnant with my brother that year, so she had ALOT of things going on at the time, and me having a bitch for a teacher wasn't the end of the world for anyone. ETA: Mom thinks that going through that is what caused me not to "reach my potential". I told her that I was lazy before 5th grade and I was lazy after 5th grade and Ms. Taylor had nothing to do with it!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 14, 2012 9:55:15 GMT -5
Well, Ms Taylor or not, you "seem" pretty together or you just fake it well Lena
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 9:57:07 GMT -5
Awww....thank you. I try, but not too hard.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 14, 2012 10:29:31 GMT -5
If you are in a bad situation, do something to change the situation - that sounds like a pretty good lesson to me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 10:30:52 GMT -5
Kick and scream until they give you the candy. Uh huh.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 14, 2012 10:34:58 GMT -5
I'm confident my kids are able to learn the difference between getting themselves out of a bad situation and getting candy. Your kids may be different.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 10:37:36 GMT -5
My kids can handle "mean" teachers and not get everything they want. Yours might be different.
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