Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 13, 2012 17:17:29 GMT -5
Being strict and being cruel aren't the same. I don't see any quality learning coming from calling kids name. Even if the kids are stupid, I don't think teachers should call them that. I mean, would you put up with a boss that called you fat, or ugly or barked every time you walked by. It is poor role modeling. I don't disagree. And there are bosses who are indeed poor role models. The last boss I had before retiring, belittled the female employees constantly. Not blatantly enough to get called out on it, but blatantly enough that it was obvious. I was fortunate enough to be retirement eligible, and had other employment opportunities, but the other women who worked for him were stuck. But the mother in your OP just had a "gut" feeling and was contemplating moving her kid because of that? A "gut" feeling?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 13, 2012 17:21:09 GMT -5
Ugh! Well, I won't do that!
Well, when will you stop? 6th grade? High school? College? Honestly, unless it is clear that the teacher is doing serious damage I would try very hard to let the kid learn to deal with difficult people on their own. Nothing wrong with discussing it, offering coping strategies (I remember my mother doing this when I was being bullied by another child).
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 13, 2012 17:22:40 GMT -5
Learning how to deal with a mean teacher in school is excellent preparation for dealing with a difficult boss later. No parent should deprive their child of that experience. What if the teacher is calling you kid stupid? My brother is very bright, but in 4th grade he got a teacher who used to call him stupid and assorted other names and generally just couldn't handle him. He went for doing very well in school to just barely passing, and it continued for the rest of his school career. My parents, in retrospect, wished they would have insisted he be reassigned to another teacher. At the time, they were young, uneducated, and didn't realize they could do something like that.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Aug 13, 2012 17:30:59 GMT -5
When you are an adult and have a bad boss, you have choices. They may not be great choices, but you have them- to just quit, to look for another job, to complain to HR if it's bad enough, etc.
A child in school has no choices not provided to her by adults. If her parents can't/won't homeschool, then she can't just leave school- that's against the law. She has to be there. The school doesn't allow her to just pick and choose what classroom she goes into, so again, no choice. She must go where the adults tell her to. That's why, as a parent, I do think it's important for the adults to make use of their choices- to complain to the school, to ask that their child be moved, etc. Your child will learn all about having to deal with difficult people in their peer groups and from other adults as they grow up. And as a parent, it is your job to determine when to teach your kid coping mechanisms or when to make an actual move. In my mind, that doesn't teach your child to be dependent on you, it teaches them that their well being is important enough to be stood up for. I know lots of adults who never learned that lesson, and it never leads to a happy life.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 13, 2012 17:35:44 GMT -5
There are most definitely assholes in every office, but when you are 20-something through 60-something, you likely already have your base personality in place, and you should already know right from wrong, and won't magically become that person. I know you can shift given the variables around you. But right now, my son is in that age where he is parroting things to try and figure out what works. He repeats things he hears on movies, from us, from friends, from teachers, etc. If he spent 9 months repeating to other people, and to himself that he is a stupid kid and they are stupid kids, I just don't think that would be healthy.
I do less for my kids today than I did when they were babies. And as they grow up I will do less and less for them. I think tapering off these kinds of thing is normal. I don't have to wake up one day and throw my kids into the snow and say "You are on your own suckers!"
Also, you seem to be mistaken that I am asking if I should intervene in every interaction they have to make sure no one calls them a name. What I'm asking is if leaving a child in an incompetent teacher's care is the right thing to do.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 13, 2012 18:06:55 GMT -5
The problem with that approach is that 8-9 yr olds are VERY limited in their options, unlike grown adults who have to deal with various kind of bosses.
Lena
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 13, 2012 18:09:03 GMT -5
I think leaving a child in any kind of incompetent care is a very wrong thing to do
Lena
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 18:29:47 GMT -5
Um, i don't let my kids use the "I don't like the teacher" excuse. Because, i really don't care if they like the teacher, bond with the teacher or whatever. That is life. We are all going to have bosses, coworkers and even internet posters we don't like. So, they have to learn to deal and function in a variety of settings. And, my oldest son was a bit of a handful, so i always kept an ear out to hear who the meanest, toughest, nastiest teachers were and i requested them for my kid. ;D
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 13, 2012 18:35:26 GMT -5
We didn't either. Then she got one teacher that we realized we really didn't like. She was giving them coloring book pages as homework. Her classroom was almost completely out of control because she couldn't keep the kids in line. And when we talked to her about some of our concerns we both realized that she doesn't come across as the brightest crayon in the box. I ain't sayin' she's stupid, I'm just sayin' it sure seems that way if you have a twenty minute conversation with her.
The worst part was our elementary school has full time gifted and talented classes, so she can't even use the mainstreamed special ed, or uncaring parents, or whatever excuse. She had all the highest performing kids and couldn't keep them in line. Just sad.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 13, 2012 18:36:16 GMT -5
My son never complained, about anything. I found out from another mother in the class who was describing this poor little boy that this teacher picked on. I ignored her until I realized as she kept talking that the poor little boy was MY little boy. She even tried to retain him, that bitch. Said he couldn't read. Uh, he could read before he entered Kindergarten, he just froze in front of her because he knew she hated him. I had to fight with the school who covered for her for him to get promoted to 2nd grade. When his CTBS scores came in, he was recommended for the Gifted program. His 1st grade teacher knew those scores and still never admitted she was the problem, not him. I bless his second grade teachers and his third grade ones as I explained what had happened to him and they worked on restoring his self confidence.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 18:39:15 GMT -5
The reality of life is that there are lots of hoops all of us have to jump through to get to where we want to go. Some of them are unreasonable and even stupid, but that in itself is all part of the learning process. I teach my kids to respect the authority of the teacher. And, they don't have to like or agree with everything but they have to learn to follow directions and do the work asked of them.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Aug 13, 2012 18:58:49 GMT -5
The worst part was our elementary school has full time gifted and talented classes, so she can't even use the mainstreamed special ed, or uncaring parents, or whatever excuse. She had all the highest performing kids and couldn't keep them in line. Just sad. Not defending the teacher because I dont know her, but as an interesting aside... Gifted and talented actually falls under the special education umbrella. Also, high performing kids are really challenging to manage in the classroom. I enjoyed teaching them, but it was much harder, both in terms of education and discipline, than teaching an average or slightly above average kiddos.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 13, 2012 19:01:15 GMT -5
I would rather teach my kids to get the information and NOT blindly follow directions and certainly not do everything that is asked of them.
I prefer to teach my kids how to think vs how to follow, but that's just me
Lena
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 13, 2012 19:18:34 GMT -5
Try telling that to a school board when they're divvying up the special education funding. I could see that. I was a little hellion for a few years in school. However, the grade below and the grade above had no problems with the same kids. In this teacher's class it was chaos. I blame the teacher. She obviously wasn't ready for that class. Maybe she's used to younger kids, or older kids, or the mainstream class... I don't know. She wasn't ready for that class though.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Aug 13, 2012 19:34:00 GMT -5
Try telling that to a school board when they're divvying up the special education funding.
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Aug 13, 2012 20:35:07 GMT -5
I think a alot depends on the kids personality. My brother who was always very shy and sensitive had a third grade (what is it with third grade teachers?) wo you could hear screaming at the children down the hallway. He was terrified of her and hated reading class because of it. I believe my parents did become involved. Otoh, other kids like me would not take being called stupid or screamed at even at a young age. Bullies always know who they can pick on. No matter the age. You have to teach kids to respect authority, but to know when to stand up for what's is right, even if it is the one with power who is wrong. My biggest school problem was being bored out of my mind most of the time.
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InsertCoolName
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Post by InsertCoolName on Aug 13, 2012 21:03:44 GMT -5
My 4th grade teacher was a minion of the devil I think. She threw a desk at one of the boys in class. She got pissed that a girl rolled her eyes and she was holding a pen and I happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. And the school just glossed it over and then every summer Ms. J went on vacation to the looney bin. If she were still teaching at the school today and any of my kids had gotten her....damn straight I would have been in someone's office saying change it and change it NOW. Or ALL of my kids will be removed this school. Those are only a couple of the things....oh! She went screaming and yelling down the hallway because I sub teacher read from his bible instead of reading Black Beauty. None of us kids cared. Hell most of us went to church. And it's not like we listened. But oh yeah...she went bat shit crazy over the bible. It was proof enough for me that she really worked for the devil!!! I liked or loved all my other teachers. Oh well my class did make one teacher quit in 7th grade. But he sat at his desk and rocked back and forth sucking his thumb. It was just a matter of time before he cracked. And we did have another teacher in tears. It was one boy being mean and the rest of us just laughed. But yeah...kids are horrible. My DD13 she hates ALL of her teachers and they are ALL mean. I just tell her to get over her self. Because not ALL 7 of her teachers are going to be out to get her as she thinks.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Aug 13, 2012 22:58:48 GMT -5
My first grade teacher was a screamer. She would lose control and start yelling at the class on a daily basis. I was terrified of her and was having nightmares so my parents met with the school to try to resolve the issue. The school wouldn't move me to another class but they issued me a head set to put on when she started yelling so it wouldn't be so loud and they told me to just ignore her yelling. After that every other teacher I have ever had has been great by comparison.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 23:17:26 GMT -5
I would rather teach my kids to get the information and NOT blindly follow directions and certainly not do everything that is asked of them. I prefer to teach my kids how to think vs how to follow, but that's just me Lena It isn't mutually exclusive. It isn't "disobey the teacher" in order to "think for oneself". And, you earn the right to "think for yourself" with time, experience, position, etc. When you start your first job, sorry, you don't get to do all the thinking for yourself. You don't walk in and start telling the boss and everyone else what you will and won't do.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 13, 2012 23:31:52 GMT -5
I have no idea if my elementary school teachers were competent or not. I couldn't speak the language and I couldn't see the board. I needed glasses and no one picked up on it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 0:08:43 GMT -5
I believe it depends on the child personality:
- My brother is laid back, everything rolls off his shoulders and he really doesn't give a rat ass most of the time. So him getting scared by a teacher would not be a concern to my parents and I; and most likely to get expelled/detention for telling the teacher to go F himself/herself.
- My sister on the other hand is very sensitive, takes everything way too personally and we hope as she matures grows a tougher skin. But in the mean time, yes if she gets a teacher like a few mentioned here ; calling her stupid or dummy, we would be (me most likely) all over it like white on rice.
When I was growing up my parents attitude about teachers were : they are always right and the kids are wrong; you be obedient and listen, don't talk back. At times I "needed" a parent on my side, to be my voice when no one would listen to me. So yes while I will not fight all my siblings/kids battle, but for some you bet it will take God himself to keep me out.
My siblings are 10 and 9 respectively and yes due to the age difference we have more of a parent/child relationship versus a older brother/younger sibling one. I am quite involved in their lives. But also I am the cool older brother that can buy them stuff, have a car and can take them on trips/vacations (compared to their friends their age). Also if mommy/daddy says no, guess who they call (also got them their first cell phones).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 0:10:47 GMT -5
Learning how to deal with a mean teacher in school is excellent preparation for dealing with a difficult boss later. No parent should deprive their child of that experience. What if the teacher is calling you kid stupid? My brother is very bright, but in 4th grade he got a teacher who used to call him stupid and assorted other names and generally just couldn't handle him. He went for doing very well in school to just barely passing, and it continued for the rest of his school career. My parents, in retrospect, wished they would have insisted he be reassigned to another teacher. At the time, they were young, uneducated, and didn't realize they could do something like that. Study, study, study or bonk, bonk on the head! !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 3:19:43 GMT -5
Normally I make my kids deal with the teacher unless there is pretty extreme reason for them to not be in the class. My first son had a horrible horrible 4th grade teacher. Several parents complained about her but she was tenure and the school had already lost a huge tenure/firing lawsuit. She wasn't going anywhere. A few years later they tried to put my 2nd son in her class and I sent a very nicely worded email to the new principal that stated that we had this teacher before and that there were personality conflicts with this teacher and our family and to please move him to another teacher. Well they did, and gave him a teacher that was identical to the other teacher if not worse. Both of those 4th grade teachers were by far the worst teachers we have ever had to deal with. The 2nd one even had the nerve to tell me that I was failing as my job as a parent because I wasn't a SAHM. She told me that my kids needed me home. I nearly went across the desk at her. After that, DH had to do all meetings with her. Oh, she was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. She cried in front of the class almost every day because "the students were being mean to her and not listening to her teaching." The next year they pulled her from the classroom and put her in the computer lab.
My kids are now older (middle and high school). I can't imagine having to have them moved to another class. It might happen...it hasn't so far though.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 14, 2012 3:30:56 GMT -5
I think its better to get both sides of the argument.
I've been accused of all sorts...especially if the child has been put in detention for ...ie....not doing homework, being rude in class, bullying. The child will go home and tell their parents their "version" of the story and the parent comes thundering into School thinking they are protecting their little angel from the big bad establishment. They would be horrified if they knew what really went on. Behaviour tracking has been a godsend.....at least that way there is documented evidence that the child may be misbehaving in all lessons and its not possible to say that a single teacher is "picking" on them.
If the School contacts parents informing them that their child has been..ie.. "bullying".....its very likely to be true. Yet we get sworn at and threatened with alarming regularity by parents who just won't believe it...and wish to blame someone else.
A School is not an enemy they are only interested in success...Parents who work with the School to iron out all the little problems will get a better result.
I work with teenagers...and they make mistakes or push the boundaries...Its what teenagers do and is all a part of growing up (I've got them at home and have raised my own). If they did it at home no-one would bat an eyelid. My lot get grounded or sent to their room. ...and if they get a bad report from School...they will be doubly worried because they would have to face additional sanctions from their father and me.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 14, 2012 7:04:56 GMT -5
The reality of life is that there are lots of hoops all of us have to jump through to get to where we want to go. Some of them are unreasonable and even stupid, but that in itself is all part of the learning process. I teach my kids to respect the authority of the teacher. And, they don't have to like or agree with everything but they have to learn to follow directions and do the work asked of them. I agree with this. DS had some really great teachers in elementary school, and one that was really bad. She only liked the pretty, well behaved little girls, she was very biased against the boys. What helped was that she didn't single my son out, she didn't like ANY of the boys in her class. It was a good opportunity, though, to explain to DS that there would always be people who don't like him, often for stupid reasons, like his color, his nationality, his sex, whatever. Part of learning how to survive in life is learning how to get along with people that don't like you, or that you don't like, but you still have to work with. I had a teacher in HS who didn't like me because I was a Yankee. Seriously. She made all kinds of nasty comments about Yankees around me, but I stuck it out, shut up, and did my work really well, so she ended up having to give me an A. As she handed me the final grade, she made some comment about how typical it was of Yankees, to push so hard for a grade. I didn't care, I got the A despite the fact that she hated me. It was a great learning opportunity. Of course, if a teacher was singling out my kid and picking on him and him alone, I would have had to do something.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 14, 2012 7:06:39 GMT -5
Here's the thing though, if a teacher is really over the edge what controls are in place to remove them?
NONE.
My DD had a teacher in first grade who was known for being strict. Ok, fine, I'm good with that. When she started getting report card after report card with behavior deficiencies DH and I started to get really worried (only child so somewhat inexperienced parents). We cracked down on the kid (no tv, computer etc.) and since the teacher was observing the same behavior we were at home we thought something was out of whack.
We were THIS close to taking DD for an evaluation when a casual conversation with another parent at a school function highlighted the fact that the teacher practically gave all the kids bad marks for behavior. This parent was on her third kid with this particular teacher and knew the drill. We checked with the second grade teacher who said something to the effect that the kids seem to settle down and do much better in the second grade.
Long and short of it was the DD's behavior (and that of a majority of her classmates) was normal for first graders yet they got bad marks for it. I wonder over the years how many parents initiated disclipine as a result. The teacher finally retired that year for which I was very grateful.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 7:18:54 GMT -5
I was a kid that never complained about anything. So it took a LOT for me to ask to be moved out of my 5th grade class. I knew the teacher didn't like me, but my Mom insisted that it wasn't that bad and that if I kept getting my work done there shouldn't be a problem (this teacher class was considered the "smart kid class" so I think that had something to do with it too). Well, she went to the parent/teacher conference in December and saw that my teacher REALLY didn't like me (she told my Mom that I reminded her of her good for nothing younger sister ). By then, it was too late to have me transferred out of the class so I had to deal with it for the year. She still beats herself up for not listening to me, but it is water under the bridge now. She made sure that none of my other siblings had her -- just like InsertCoolName said, she threatened to remove all of us from the school if any of her other kids were assigned to her class. I think it toughened me up and it also showed me that good and bad situations don't last forever.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 7:40:51 GMT -5
I would rather teach my kids to get the information and NOT blindly follow directions and certainly not do everything that is asked of them. I prefer to teach my kids how to think vs how to follow, but that's just me Lena It isn't mutually exclusive. It isn't "disobey the teacher" in order to "think for oneself". And, you earn the right to "think for yourself" with time, experience, position, etc. When you start your first job, sorry, you don't get to do all the thinking for yourself. You don't walk in and start telling the boss and everyone else what you will and won't do. This isn't about telling someone you won't do a reasonable task you don't like... But if your first boss comes up to you and grabs your ass, or calls you a whore, or asks you to do something unethical... You sure as heck have the right to think for yourself.... The things people are describing here at things that should NOT be happening or endured... I'm with Lena... I don't want sheep...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 7:47:37 GMT -5
What has that got to do with anything? That is bizarre.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 7:48:25 GMT -5
What is bizarre?
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